What Did You Do Last Summer? Jobs. vs. Internships

Parents Forum
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<p>Who the heck here is disparaging unpaid volunteer work or calling it horrid? Who in the article?</p>

<p>That is just plain over-the-top. </p>

<p>If anything, it's the poor kids slopping food who get disparaged...icecream scoopers, hamburger flippers, "waste of time", "mindless jobs", on and on and on. I must be losing my mind. This is like white upper class people complaining that minorities get ranked higher.</p>

<p>Never mind that these kids don't have the resources to go on trips or go to school without contributing toward it themselves.</p>

<p>And the thing about car insurance is just a slam...in many parts of the country a car is a must, not a luxury. Without it, you CAN'T get to school or your job. It's sort of like daycare- part of your income goes to paying for it, but it's necessary.</p>

<p>I didn't see anything in the article "rank" one type of summer activity over another.</p>

<p>I've never so much overinterpreting in my life. Now we've got our "blood boiling" over it. Honestly, if that article got anyone pumped up...Valium anyone? Take a deep breath. It's only an article about how much rarer part time jobs are now compared to years ago.</p>

<p>No one is attacking anyone here. No one is saying your kids' activities are worthless. Let's not be so sensitive, shall we? :)</p>

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<p>let us see, shall we:</p>

<p>"nstead, many college-bound young people are in summer school, doing volunteer work, or on a trip to the Third World -- sometimes more to spice up their college applications than out of genuine interest, admissions officers say.:</p>

<p>Summer travel and study can make students more worldly or civic-minded, but often fail to teach how to persevere through boredom, take orders, or work with people from different backgrounds, admissions deans say."</p>

<p>if also talked about "unwillingess" to get a job, while the kid was volunteering at two</p>

<p>yeah, there was an "tude" to the piece and I wasn't the only one who picked that up</p>

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<p>that quote implies., and it is NOT a stretch... is that only work, paid work, teaches a student those qualities and that is just garbage, and the article also leaves the impression that doing good works and not getting paid is somehow going to be seen badly in the eyes of admissions people, so its better to work at an icecream store that to maybe go to a country and help aids babies</p>

<p>sorry if that is how I read it....that is how I read it</p>

<p>sensitive? oh yeah, sorry if I disagree with a poorly researched, shallow and biased article, who made it appear that a girl working to pay for car insurance was somehow better than a kid who volunteered to help alzheimers patients and volunteered with an ambulance service....</p>

<p>if that girl in the article didn't have a car, no need for insurance and such...seems many of those that worked in the article were kind of priveleged....while those that volunteered weren't so much...but somehow working is presented as an "up" in college admissions, while those that did some really worthwhile stuff, eh, they were "unwilling" to work, as if office work volunteering and the ambulance service isn''t work</p>

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<p>"Summer travel and study can make students more worldly or civic-minded, but often fail to teach how to persevere through boredom, take orders, or work with people from different backgrounds, admissions deans say."</p>

<p>But that's true. Why is saying so offensive? Is it because it's not PC? Is it because you feel they're speaking to you directly or something? (They're not)</p>

<p>Indeed, summer travel and study is not boring, as some menial jobs can be. You usually aren't taking orders (from people who have only half a brain in many cases, I might add), and your study companions are usually not from different socioeconomic backgrounds, especially since it usually costs in the tens of thousands to do some of these travel study programs.</p>

<p>Likewise, working at the carwash is not going to make you more worldly or civic-minded.</p>

<p>That quote had something good and bad to say about both scenarios.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
the article also leaves the impression that doing good works and not getting paid is somehow going to be seen badly in the eyes of admissions people, so its better to work at an icecream store that to maybe go to a country and help aids babies

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is what I worried about after reading it, to cgm. A high school student could reasonably read this article and come away thinking they had better get a paid job even if it meant they would spend less time, or no time, on a volunteer opportunity that they enjoyed. After all, don't kids want to be that "refreshing "student that adcoms comment favorable upon?</p>

<p>This arguement is kind of silly, as it's fine for reasonable people to see things differently. Because an article stuck me, cgm, or others as biased toward one point of view, and doesn't strike someone else that way, fine.<br>
It doesn't mean that one of us is wrong, or right. I felt it was biased against volunteerism. Not blatently so, but subtlely so. You didn't. That's ok.</p>

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<p>True. I guess I come into this with my own <em>sensitivity</em> because far more disparaging comments have been said in the media and on these forums, in the past, about burger flipping and the like, and far more favorable comments, relatively speaking, about mind-altering global excursions. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone actually come out and say that it's just as impressive to flip burgers as it is to help starving children in Central America. And suddenly everyone <em>flips</em> out about it. ;)</p>

<p>I've seen plenty of articles, posted on CC, extolling the virtues of study abroad or doing volunteerism rather than working. I truly believe there is a little anti-work-for-money bias, but that's just my opinion. The reason why I say that is I don't see the same sensitivity in the opposite direction (when minimum wage lackies get disparaged).</p>

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<p>dp, I saw the judgment and bias in both directions (or all directions) right here in this thread. Forget the article; I saw it in "ourselves." Posters disparaging menial paid work, posters stating that travel is a worthwhile summer pursuit and minimum wage work is not, posters castigating privileged kids who travel to do service work, posters judging families who help their kids find summer jobs.... </p>

<p>That is what I was responding to.</p>

<p>IMO, it can all be good. It can all, or almost all, be done for the wrong reasons. We can't tell the motives behind or the "worth" of someone else's choice most times, and we shouldn't presume that we can.</p>

<p>Is what I was trying to say.</p>

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<p>The argument here doesn't seem realistic to me. I understood these decision factors (until now) this way: Nobody works unless they have to, hence: menial jobs for teens because they are the bottom-feeders of the workforce in terms of skills. (Except for music teachers, church organists and so on..:) who have marketable skills.</p>

<p>For those who don't have to work, an old choice was spending every day at a country club or playing games 24/7. Compared to that, it is certainly much better to go out and help the community by volunteering, or help your own world understanding by traveling. </p>

<p>With a concern from top elite schools now to figure out ways to bring in economically disadvantaged students or more middle-class kids, it makes sense for AdComs to see some value in the learnings made from those who have to work, as well as the obvious learnings of volunteer work or travel.</p>

<p>Deciding whether someone "has" to work because they're buying fancy jeans isn't any of my business. I can never look into the next person's pocketbook; I just don't know what is going on in their household to judge.</p>

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<p>i did "menial" work in HS, and often the work my Ds did at their volunteer stuff wasn't very glamorous_ i never disparaged work, but the idea that paid work is the only place to get certain experiences and skills- team work, tedium, etc. was, as I said, hogwash...</p>

<p>anyone here ever sort fruit at a food bank or pick up garbage at the beach or make 700 sandwiches for the homeless? yeah thats glamorous stuff</p>

<p>work is good, volunteering is good, travel is good, however the article disparaged the latter two., implying that work is the new cool thing, even if it is paying for the inurance on that extra car, and that admissions people are wary of service and internships, which I don't believe is true</p>

<p>and the reasons given for teens not working as much as in the past are also not well thought through, and were pretty much not indepth in its reasoning...what about unemployment, change in the demographics of parttime workers being hired, valid options (ie- CIT at camps- not paid, but still work), and if more kids are volunteering and are able to, that should be applauded, not questioned</p>

<p>I guess the other issue with the admissions people quoted is that they assumed that those that worked had all the skills they should get from working, and we all know that that isn't often the case</p>

<p>I mentioned the work for insurance because that is what the article mentioned, and the mom who wanted her kid to work for $ and the author describing the kid as "unwilling" to get a paid job, though working 2 volunteer jobs, as somehow the one working to pay for insurance would be more worthy in the eyes of the admin people because she ws getting those experiences, while the student helping alzheimers patiends was not</p>

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<p>JmMom, you make some excellent points. I think all these activities are worthwhile and we really can't assume the reasons behind the choices each student makes.</p>

<p>I also have read a few posts that imply that those who do paid summer employment are doing so just to earn privileges like cars and IPods, etc. I do NOT see that in my experience AT ALL. That is not the case for my own children for one thing. They earn money that they sock away as spending money at college or to fund travel or educational experiences. Moreover, the kids where I live, hold summer jobs and jobs while in high school. Often they truly NEED the money. My kids are not necessarily in the same situation as some kids in our community. However, my kids are funding their experiences in summer and extra spending money at college. I see work as a good thing. But I also see other activities as a good thing. I mostly see value in ANY activity or experience that is worthwhile or productive as opposed to a kid just hanging out all summer. Some kids are fortunate to have parents fund experiences and others work or some do some of each. Who cares? </p>

<p>As someone who interviews candidates for a selective college, and in fact, a college mentioned in that article, I do ask the student how she/he spends his/her summers and I'm looking for anything worthwhile.....be it a menial job, an internship, volunteering, travel, organized programs, pursuing an interest area, etc. The only time I have been unimpressed are the times when a kid has done basically nothing. This discussion reminds me of ECs too. I don't see one EC as better than another. I don't think it matters which EC a kid pursues but I'd rather see a kid spending a chunk of their free time committed to an activity and making contributions to that activity and being engaged in some interest areas. Hanging out after school is not seen as positively. I don't place a value judgement on WHICH activity the student is pursuing. A kid who is a cashier at the grocery store is on par to me as a kid on the soccer team. But the kid who just goes home and is not engaged in anything (but homework) is not as interesting. I suppose that is in itself a value judgement but it is not choosing amongst pursuits or activities, paid or unpaid.</p>

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<p>BTW, CGM....where I live, kids really need to have access to a car to get ANYWHERE, including their jobs or even volunteer work. A lot of kids where i live do not get a car from their parents and have to use part of their earnings to purchase a car. It is not a luxury really. It is not like buying designer jeans. They are buying things that other kids get bought FOR them. I also know kids who earn money to pay tuition. I think it is a bit much to assume that all kids who do paid work do so to fund luxury items.</p>

<p>Also, now that my own kids are in college, I do not fund their summers and so they must earn the money to fund what they are doing and/or to save for future things they do. We do pay for college, however. But many kids where I live have to fund many of their college experiences themselves. Thus they must do jobs that pay money and do not have the LUXURY of doing volunteer work only.</p>

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<p>My bro-in-law worked construction all through hs and college; talk about menial labor! He ended up majoring in commercial construction and started his own company- now owns of one of the largest commercial constructors in the country. You never know how valuable that grunt work is going to be one day.</p>

<p>Soozie, we're in the same boat here in Florida. Kids need a car to get anywhere. It's not the price of the vehicle that kills you; it's the insurance. Just to put my son down as an <em>occasional driver</em> on my car costs over $1000 a year. :eek: </p>

<p>And insurance is mandatory if someone is going to drive at all- anyone's car.</p>

<p>Edit: Actually his insurance costs $800 semi-annually ($1600 per year)</p>

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<p>soozievt, I agree with you....that is my problem with the article, it was so biased to one side, and made volunteering look bad, that I have actually sent a letter to the editor at the Boston Globe, better than nothing I suppose</p>

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<p>To some extent, don't they just have to write these articles to, y'know, write articles?</p>

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<p>Yes, and every story needs an angle. If it's a bit controversial, all the better! ;)</p>

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<p>well, too bad the article didn't talk about why many kids have to work..it kind of ignored all of that didn't it...also a problem I have with the article it was a fluff piece disquised as journalism</p>

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<p>Well, it got people talkin'!</p>

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<p>better use of the newspaper space would have been the debt, the students workng through college, the loans, the having to not go to a dream school because of $, etc and the current plan in congress to address those issues</p>

<p>but hey, that stuff is trivial compared to some girl dishing icecream</p>

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<p>It sure did!
And people don't always HAVE to work, sometimes they want to. Plenty of "second income earners" (ahem, women?) go to work even though their families would be able to survive on just one income. Some of them work just to keep themselves busy and around other people (gasp). Some of those families with two income earners are quite wealthy (those greedy people just working to own those fancy luxury cars!) My grandma worked until she was almost 80, and she really didn't have to.</p>

<p>Some kids, a lot of kids around here (Central Florida tourist mecca) plan on going into the hospitality industry, so working in a restaurant, or any service business, is good. My son is working this summer in baseball camps for both the money and because he likes it. Last summer my kids worked at the local theater because they got to see all the movies as soon as they came out. The summer before my oldest worked in a car wash because the hours fit between football conditioning in the AM and baseball games in the PM.</p>

<p>Whatever the motivation, it isn't really ours to judge.</p>

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<p>nor is it the admissions people to make assumptions that people who work have more skills than those that don't get paid, that is a huge judgement to make</p>