I believe that there has not been a “What did you turn down for ____” thread for Emory active for several years so I thought that I would start another one.
To begin, I was accepted to both Emory College and Oxford College and I have chosen to attend Oxford because I like the idea of having two years at a smaller liberal arts-style school and two years at a mid-size research university (I was also offered a scholarship to attend Oxford). It was a tough choice to choose to attend Oxford, as I was also offered scholarship money at SMU and Rhodes College, with other acceptances including Davidson College, Washington and Lee, the University of Richmond, and the University of Florida (in-state).
What have other incoming Emory or Oxford freshman turned down?
@FLStudent97 ‘re going to get interesting results because some ridiculous students on CC essentially only apply to pretty selective schools (I would say most schools ranked between like 1-40), thus Emory may literally be one of the only places they get into (some people do not apply to real safeties, even their state flagship. Some people in Georgia may consider places like Tech a safety and then apply out of state to selective privates with engineering schools/good pre-med programs, or top public schools’ engineering programs…and then maybe 1 or 2 safeties). I know back in the very old days when I was applying, I only applied to a few schools (could not afford more), mainly in state and turned down GSU, Mercer, UGA, Morehouse, and Hampton University (Virginia)…so somewhat like you (except, I was interested in and recruited by HBCU’s). You have a nice range of schools you got into and that comes from balanced applications…good job and good luck at Oxford.
@bernie12 The one result that surprised me was that I was wait listed at Wake Forest University. I thought that I was qualified, but my guess as to why I was wait listed is because, as a white male, I was not “diverse” enough. Wake has been pushing diversity over the past several years in an attempt to rid themselves of their predominantly white, preppy, and upper-middle class stereotype, especially when they went test-optional in 2008. I will never know why I was wait listed and, as you mentioned, it is essentially a crapshoot for even the students with x-million service hours and EC’s with leadership positions, perfect test scores, and stellar essays to gain admission to any of the top 20, if not top 40, colleges and universities. If you scroll through the Wake Forest Class of 2019 RD threads, you will see that many qualified students were wait listed or denied; the situation is similar with Emory.
Had Emory given me more money I would have turned down USC UCLA and Claremont McKenna.
I doubt it had to do with diversity, but has to do with yield protection (Wake Forest is in a really odd spot). Wake Forest could have probably foreseen you getting into an Emory level school so waitlisted you. Emory foresees people fitting or getting into higher ranked schools so is likely to waitlist or deny some people in the top 75% of the app. pool, especially when they have not attempted the scholars program app. In addition, a place like Emory is also more complicated in that it is sort of trying to change direction, so “diversity” could also be an issue explaining rejection of “perfect” applicants. But in the case of Emory, “diversity” could mean “bringing in less science majors/eventually bringing more people who are not blatantly pre-professional”. Based upon several initiatives and the QEP and all of that, it is kind of suggested that Emory’s administration wants to move more toward a more “intellectual” vibe on campus that is perhaps more reminiscent of places like Rice, Chicago, and certain Ivies, than say Duke, Vandy, or JHU (just naming certain southern schools, you could honestly place most top 20-30 private schools that are indeed “work hard, play hard” and have very mild intellectual climates at best).
Needless to say, you have to not only change the academics, you have to recruit those who will respond positively (or at least not negatively to it), but with a “work hard play hard” pre-professional reputation, it is of course very hard to make these changes. However, you can make small ones by doing recruiting that focuses less on tippy top stats and a full resume (often screams pre-professional/type A) and more seriously considering those who perhaps have less but very focused EC’s, wrote extremely interesting essays, or are majoring in something that is on the decline in terms of popularity. For example, there is no doubt that humanities majors, especially those in signature programs like creative writing and English, make a positive impact on Emory’s intellectual climate so I am sure the admissions office drools over the qualified (even if not perfect) student that is interested in such programs and demonstrates through essays/ECs that their writing is strong or that they have cool ideas.
The point is, the admissions profile of certain schools is much more complex than it appears on the surface. There are indeed certain schools where getting near “perfect” students appears to be the goal, but there are schools that know they aren’t in a position to yield them (one reason Emory won’t take all of them) or are simply not interested in only doing that and are using admissions to sculpt a certain campus/institutional culture (which what Emory appears to be trying now. This is one reason I think they’ve made the scholars’ program so easy to apply for now. Getting more scholars helps with this).
I turned down the College of William and Mary, University of Washington Honors, and UCBerkeley for Emory. Interested to see what others turned down.
@gdlt234 You turned down Berkeley? Any reason for that? Most students getting into places like UVA, Berkeley, and Chapel Hill put those UG programs on pedestals in comparison to Emory (no so much some of the other selective privates/publics). Size, money, Emory better at a certain program at the UG level (I see this as a possibility for some programs)? Interesting…
Regardless I imagine many conflate quality of undergraduate programs with the name recognition garnered from the strides of the research and graduate programs at many selective schools, so that may be where all the fervor comes from (levels of lay prestige and stuff like that). Also many like the idea of the large public school atmosphere/spirit.
@bernie12 Well Emory is basically paying off all of my costs, whereas at Berkeley I’d need to come up with about 30K a year. So it seemed like a fairly easy choice, although giving up Berkeley was hard because it was my top choice.
Also it seems interesting that you say that people would prefer schools like UVA or Berkeley for UG over Emory. I felt like I’d have a better UG experience at Emory due to the smaller size over all.
@gdlt234 If programs of interest are strong at all of such schools, I imagine it depends on academic orientation. If you plan to take an approach to college where the “academic” portion just primarily focuses on getting grades or using performance to impress outside sourses, then it won’t really matter and a student will just choose either the funner or more prestigious school (in which case most large selective privates will win over a place at Emory’s level of prestige. And I believe this is how many people compare schools when they think of academics…they pretty much just assume they are the same and thus choose based upon other things. Sometimes they could be right, but many times not depending on programs of interest), but if you think of the academic experience as more so things like having access to the instructor/resources and maybe academic environment issues (such as are all intro classes taught in huge lecture halls or in the typical lecture format or is the experience richer than that), then an academically strong private school may be more competitive simply because the classes are smaller early on and thus instructors are typically more accessible and I imagine things like learning resources/academic opps (like research or special programs related to academics) are less competitive.
The difference is basically between the vast majority of people who merely just say: “good academics: check!” (not caring about how vague “good” is) and then compare social environments (which often public schools are much better at marketing, especially the great ones. They also successfully sell that they are similar to smaller privates and shamefully, when you look at freshman level courses at some top privates, they could be right. Luckily, Emory’s courses even in the sciences which have high enrollment are typically much smaller than the 2-400 person classes you see at peer institutions) vs. those who more seriously investigate the academic environment for whatever reason and only then give it almost equal if not higher weighting, in which case they may still choose the public, but I’m sure more of these types of people would more seriously consider the excellent, but not ultra-prestigious private.
well I am a emory alumni and my son turned down emory to go to Berkeley(also got into Michigan, UVA, chapel hill). he is now finishing up his freshmen yr at Berkeley and def. loves it but I am so sad he is not at emory. I can completely see advantage of a private school over Berkeley. at Berkeley he has to fight for everything includng housing, getting into majors(he wants to go to HAAS business school and will have to sweat it out till next yr and has been told only 50 percent get into business school that apply-I know Goizueta is not 100 percent but we were told if you work hard and have good GPA you will get into emory business school very different at Berekely, UVA and University of Michigan) I think you made a great choice to go to emory.
@momof2eagles : Really, he’s fighting over housing more than Emory students? As for B-school admissions, I hear it is a lot harder at those schools given the amount that want in…it seems like a lot more luck will be involved in an admissions scheme where 1/2 get in (and I’m sure most, if not all will be qualified). I’m sure your son will end up fine though. He would have had to work hard either way (like once he was in the b-school at Emory. Nothing like being at any of these schools and having to compete on a grading curve in the core courses that results in much more stringent grading than most social science courses, and then having to compete with overachievers for internships and leadership opps…). Your son will be fine at the other beautiful red-roofed school in the hills! With that said, I still wish him the best of luck.
@bernie12 thx so much for your post and good wishes. i guess one good thing about capped majors is it really doesnt allow the students to “goof off” so good motivator to enjoy freshmen yr but realize GPA does matter. he has a reasonable back-up plan of Economics which he tells me at Berkeley will have a great ROI if HAAS doesnt go his way.
I guess all i was saying is i got the poster who picked emory over Berkeley especially with scholarship.
Yes housing much more of a problem at Berkeley than at a private school like Emory. No guaranteed housing past Sophomore yr typical of public schools
I’m a recent graduate of Emory and currently a medical student at the University of Miami (UM). While Emory is certainly highly reputable and I enjoyed the undergraduate environment, I have to say that for those of you considering pre-med Emory may not be your ideal option and you should look at other schools. This is because it does not have any kind of combined or early acceptance program with its medical school, and these are very beneficial for taking the stress and uncertainty in the admissions process early on. My classmates here at UM that were part of their combined 7-year BS/MD program were guaranteed a spot in their medical school as long as they maintained 3.7 GPA by the end of junior year and scored at least a 30 on the MCAT (although I believe the MCAT cutoff has increased to 32 now at UM). The result is that many of them only studied 3 weeks for the MCAT and got the minimum score, and took some of the challenging classes that they found intellectually stimulating without the risk of a few B+/A-s killing their admissions chances at med school as long as they maintained the 3.7+. All of this and they get their MDs at least a year earlier than everyone else. Not to mention that since UM is a less selective school than Emory at the undergrad level, it will be much easier to get merit-based scholarships at UM (other other less selective schools offering these programs). On the the end of the spectrum, some people in my class went to high-ranked but difficult schools and thus ended up not doing too well in undergrad and had to spend a gap year or more doing post-bac work, getting a Masters degree, re-taking the MCAT, or doing extra research and still had all the uncertainty of the med school admissions process. Considering medical education in most other countries outside the US and Canada is only a total 5-6 years (since you get in directly from high school), these programs should be the standard at more medical schools in the US.
What I’m saying is that high schoolers who are considering pre-med should seriously look into these types of combined programs first. Yes, they are very competitive to get in since only a few medical schools have them and only have a few spots reserved for these accelerated programs, and require you to do your typical college pre-med ECs (research, shadowing, clinical volunteering) during high school but it’s definitely worth it for those who have decided on pre-med early on (unfortunately I didn’t decide on pre-med until 2nd semester of my HS senior year when I already finished applying to college, and none of the schools I applied to offered any type of early acceptance). And people in those programs that do really well stats wise can still choose to apply to higher ranked medical schools if they want so they are not automatically locked in.
But because these combined programs are very competitive (for UM’s program you need at last a 1400/1600 on the SAT just to be able to apply, and the acceptance rate is around 20%) and medical schools admissions in the US is can be uncertain, some people have suggesting doing medical school in a foreign country directly out of high school. Faster education, often cheaper cost, and often less competitive than in the US right? Well, not a good idea because you are going to considered an international medical graduate (“IMG”) when applying to residency and American medical graduates (“AMGs”) are given a SIGNIFICANT priority in residency spots. These IMGs usually have to get significantly higher board scores to have the same chance at landing at residency as an AMG, and for the competitive specialties (which, at least from a financial perspective, are the only ones worth pursuing these days; of course a minority of people still may going into lower-paying specialties for other reasons) it’s nearly impossible. So for most the majority of people, this is risky move and not likely to pay off in the long run.
And it’s not just for premeds. For example, UM also has an accelerated PhD program that lets you get both a BS and a PhD in Biochem/Molecular Bio in just 6 years, and I’m sure other institutions have these programs too and in other fields. It’s too bad that Emory doesn’t offer many of these at the moment. Emory does offer a combined 4-year BS/MS in either Chem or Bio, but since a masters degree is usually not terminal in these areas these days this is not as helpful.
I imagine you would have to be fairly advanced to do a doctoral degree in 6 years (inclusive of the 4 undergrad) so that would cater to such a limited portion of the population and it also assumes that the school is strong in what the student wants to do (doctoral work is very sensitive to this. It isn’t like med school where spots are so limited that you need to find the most certain track possible to get “in”. You actually have to seriously think about what you want to study and with who. Often that person or dept will not be at your UG school which is why it is often recommended you not do it there). Also, don’t underestimate an MS even if not terminal(though if into industry, is often enough training to do that, which is damned fine)…often doctoral programs actually like those who have pursued beyond a bachelors (as it shows you can write a thesis and handle graduate level courses in a specialty field) so it could be a nice way to strengthen competitiveness for top science doctoral programs as would getting Summa Cum Laude or publications. In fact those sorts of combos led to some solid results for some folks you may remember (who just graduated today) CollegeStu…We have 2 Scripps Research Institute (chemical biology and cancer biology), 1 Northwestern chemistry, and 1 UCSF MD/PhD (and a Michigan MD/PhD…this guy you may not know, graduated 1 year after you, 1 year earlier than scheduled). And these are just the people I know of… While I think Emory isn’t neccessarily the best for pre-med (as is hardly no selective school unless you’re near perfect…and even then…someone has something that makes them shine more than you even if it is not stats) it could be good for pre-doctoral as pre-PhD can take much more intellectual risks as long as they do okay and are doing productive enough research to impress mentors, instructors, and thus adcoms. Emory should focus much more on that honestly, because it often has stronger placement there for students who pursue it. Med. school admissions are too unpredictable to shine in that area especially given the phmo’s quality and all.
Also, the idea of the combined program suggests that students don’t really want to keep an open mind about their educational/career options, so those should not be a go to first for most. Those should only be a first option for those who for some reason (I don’t know how this is possible) know for sure they will do medicine or just absolutely have to for some reason. The way most schools do it allow for students to fall in love with other things and I think this is fine. However, I suppose such programs allow the same and are just guaranteeing that if you meet a certain threshold, you’ll have somewhere to go.
@FLstudent97, are you sure you know Oxford? My son (and most of his Oxford friends for that matter) hated his experience at Oxford–limited course offerings, bunch of part-time faculty, limited resources, too many Asians, no off-campus scene, zero school spirit, etc. I am sure there are happy students there. But please contact some of the students at Oxford or Oxford continuees at Emory to have some real sense of Oxford College.
Oxford seems like a mixed bag to me, but that just makes sense. When you have folks that mainly want to just go there and get to main (most I guess), then you’ll get many who won’t like it because they should not be at a school like Oxford in the first place. They did it for the connection (fair, but if it doesn’t fit and you like main…It’s called transferring from a place that you can tolerate). The same students who would go to some of the secluded LAC’s (not saying Oxford is close to the elite ones) are honestly the ones more likely to enjoy or at least tolerate Oxford. In addition, part-time faculty? Ha! Welcome to the modern university. Main has this and some research university stereotypes to some extent in some key depts. Math and Chemistry for example have lost control of their enrollment (as has the whole school in attempt to get revenue, seems Oxford has increased enrollment a bit too much as well) and now have graduate students teaching (flat out teaching, not running breakout sessions) intro. courses and in math, this has extended to advanced courses. Chemistry can kind of cover their behinds in this phase because they are in a phase where they are now getting post-docs and grad. students to help them “renovate” the curriculum, however, employment of outsiders and grad. students has been going on for the past 3 years or so (and forever in math…let us not talk about some language depts). It’s only really noticeable at Oxford because it is small. Those who come to main as a junior often have the benefit of not seeing all of the same crap because they are generally taking courses typically not affected by such shortcomings by that time.
Also: I do not really want to indulge your “too many Asians” comment. If that is the case, the same could be said for main campus and many other schools (UC’s for example).
@doubleeternity While it was a difficult decision, I felt as if Oxford would provide the best environment for what I am seeking. I am considering going on the pre-med track (as with the apparent majority of Emory/Oxford enrollees…), but my decision to go on the pre-med track is not set in stone. That is why I did not search for one of the combined undergraduate/medical school programs like the UM program @collegestu816 describes in #12. If I choose to not pursue medical school, Emory has plenty of other options available. I primarily focused my college search on smaller research universities and LAC’s because I am a rather introverted person and do not want to attend a university with the student population of a small city, like UF.
Is Oxford my ideal school? Probably not. At least Oxford is within an hour’s drive of most of the Atlanta area, as opposed to a school like Washington and Lee, which is a two to three hour drive from the nearest large city. Another factor of my choice of Oxford is that I am originally from Atlanta and I still have family and friends who live there.
Isn’t it true that most highly ranked research universities have a high proportion of Asian students?
The answer to that last one is yes…and you have places like Berkeley that are nearly 40% for undergraduate and main campus can have 25-35% in some incoming classes. Let us not talk about graduate education in things like business at most elite schools.
Also, the idea of an “ideal” college: I find this over-rated and the idea in general my actually serve either cause people to set too high expectations or to join a school with a negative attitude from the beginning (you know, attitudes like: “Well it isn’t this place that I did not gain admission”). However, I imagine the more prestigious a school is, the more likely it is for students to find a way to pretend as if it is ideal or perfect…
@bernie12 I understand your point about the “ideal” school in the context of someone having a reach like Harvard or Stanford as his or her goal, only to find out that he or she was not admitted and instead enrolls at a university like UNC Chapel Hill while wishing he or she were at Harvard or Stanford. For the most part, I was accepted to all of my top choice schools (with the exception of Wake Forest =(( ). By “ideal” school in #16, I mean that Oxford might not be “ideal” in the context that no college or university will perfectly dovetail with each individual student’s needs and interests.