<p>Seeing as the Harvard to Arizona juxtaposition is being used here, thought I might pitch in. </p>
<p>I go to Arizona, and one of my best friends of 15 years goes to Yale - we are both of equal intelligence and are both in rigorous majors. Saying that, we have discussed a lot about our separate experiences and have come to somewhat of a mutual conclusion: that neither one of us is receiving a “superior” education due to the elite status - or lack there of - of our respected universities.
In my opinion, what makes an elite university is the student body and the professor body. At a school like Yale, all of the students are going to be top of the crop. At Arizona, we have tens of thousands more students, and the institution strives to offer an education to AZ residents who might not be considered smart enough to attend elite schools (hence our very high acceptance rate). On an aside, a high acceptance rate should have nothing to do with how you judge a school on its accolades or credibility, that is something that I have ground my teeth over the past few years when people take jabs at UA - but yes a low acceptance rate does usually signify a great school.
At Yale, almost all of the professors are most likely incredibly gifted and well-rounded at what they do both in the classroom and in research, with few professors that students dislike. At UA we have our fair share of horrible profs, however they mostly teach lower level or introductory courses, as well as Nobel-laureates and Cambridge grads who are at the upper echelon in their respective fields. </p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say is that, in my opinion, if you are a motivated or an “elite” student, it does not matter where you go to pursue your degree. I have learned significantly more in some of my specific classes that my friend took as well, and he has had absolutely wonderful professors in all of his classes while I have not always been so lucky. Go wherever makes you happy!!!</p>
<p>Thank you! I haven’t been 18 in some time. But are there any other colleges that are guaranteed to produce an “oh wow” reaction from almost anyone?</p>
<p>Wut? @keepittoyourself, what circles do you run in? What part of the country/world are you located? Most “normal people” in the US would have heard of Stanford/Duke/Northwestern (granted, mostly because of their sports teams) more than Brown and would consider them equally good (same level as Princeton–H is elevated; maybe Y). </p>
<p>FYI, if you’re talking about a “oh wow” reaction if you say you graduated from some place, frankly, none of those places in the US get that from me. There are too many backdoors in to all of HYPSMC besides MIT & CalTech (and I’ve hung around too many MIT folks to be wowed by them; they’re smart, but not orders of magnitude smarter than me). Also, once you’ve worked for a while, how good someone is at what they do really affects your opinion of them more than what school they go to. The UOregon grad who consistently made 9 figures trading got more of a “oh wow” reaction from me than the Princeton (legacy) who I suspect kept his job mostly because of who he knew (the Princeton network gets more respect from me than the Princeton name).</p>
<p>I do respect the folks from CalTech, Chicago, Reed, and Swarthmore who graduate from those places with good grades, however. A 3.7 from those places would get a “oh wow” from me. A 3.7 from Harvard or Stanford would get a smirk.</p>
<p>@Spuding102: throw in Chicago and Rice as well.</p>
<p>It really depends on your criteria. I think a fair examination would have to look at both inputs and outputs. Elite research universities in the U.S. have several factors in common:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>low admissions rates</p></li>
<li><p>Strong student bodies</p></li>
<li><p>Strong faculty</p></li>
<li><p>Strong graduate programs in a variety of fields</p></li>
<li><p>High endowments</p></li>
<li><p>Alumni that tend to win prestigious prizes / go on to good graduate programs / go onto jobs with high starting salaries / are well placed in business, politics, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>They tend to be regarded as very prestigious among the regions they’re located and, in many cases, outside of it.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Outside of the top research universities in the U.S., perhaps, points 1-3, 6, and 7 are more emphasized. We can see this in smaller but elite universities like Tsinghua in China, Sciences Po In France, Saint Petersburg State University in Russia, and IIT in India.</p>
<p>You’d be surprised about how few schools get the “oh wow” reaction. Most have heard about Harvard, but many have not heard about Stanford or even Yale. Some schools are recognizable more for sports than academics. For example, Notre Dame is well known but not necessarily for its excellent academics. </p>
<p>I mentioned Williams to someone, and she said, “That’s in Rhode Island?” thinking of Roger Williams. </p>
<p>Many people are sure Mount Holyoke is a Catholic school. </p>
<p>That said, if we narrow it from the general population to graduate school adcoms or top tier employers, then schools like Williams are right up there with the Harvards of the world. </p>
<p>Agreed-I almost just wrote Harvard Princeton Oxford Cambridge. Nearly everyone worldwide will say oh wow to those.very few other schools in that league.</p>
<p>Sorry, no, outside of CC, most people in the US don’t make a distinction between HYPSM and the other good schools (or if they do, it’s Harvard & maybe MIT and/or Yale and the rest).
If you ask people on the street (outside the Northeast) to list the top schools off the top of their head, UMich, ND, and Duke would be listed more often than Princeton.</p>
<p>@keepittoyourself What part of the country are you from? The Midwest? Most people on the coasts are very familiar with Duke. The school’s research prowess and sporting excellence have made it a very recognizable brand in most parts of the country. </p>
<p>Stanford is not HYP. Great school, but the students are not quite at the same level. (Here come the opinions deploring the validity of test scores)</p>
<p>If you grant that HYP and S are pretty even academically… which I believe… then the tiebreaker would be the merit of the student body. Most everything else is equal, but the test scores are not.</p>
<p>You can say it’s because Stanford is D1 in athletics, and that is fair… but HYP have athletes too, and in the end, athletes are as much a part of the learning community as everyone else.</p>
<p>I think Chicago, MIT, Stanford and maybe Columbia are about equal… just a very thin hair below HYP.</p>
<p>This is why general rankings/tiers are silly. For opportunities in Silicon Valley, Stanford blows everyone else away.</p>
<p>BTW, if you ask people in HK (who send kids to both the UK and US), they generally rate Oxbridge well below the top US schools. Most would choose schools like Cal and Northwestern over Oxbridge as well. In part, this because even the top UK schools like Oxbridge and LSE have not been competitive for the best academic talent for generations now (they pay profs starting out something like 40K).</p>
<p>Your obsession with a two-year-old thread is what’s priceless.</p>
<p>I’m interested in figuring out what the top schools are. In my opinion, HYP are better than Stanford, barely. You disagree. It sits thus and will continue to.</p>