<p>I don't see how you can make a top 8 publics list and leave off UT, considering the excellence of its undergrad programs, in addition to its incredible graduate programs, which are typically ranked in the top 20 in the nation. UIUC and William and Mary don't deserve to be on that list if UT doesn't.</p>
<p>william and mary is one of the oldest institutions in America with a great education.</p>
<p>Thanks, Brand... I totally agree re: UT-Austin. Ivies like Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, and Princeton have excellent undergrad programs, but are really respected worldwide more due to the strength of their graduate programs and faculty. UT has outstanding academic breadth and depth that needs to be given proper credit in any comparison to other top schools, since world-class universities are defined more by their faculty and academic departments than their undergrad selectivity. William and Mary and UVA are excellent at the undergrad level, but do not have the same level of overall faculty strength as Texas (not even UNC for that matter). Plus there are NO publics - Berkeley, Illinois, and Michigan included that match UT's cultural offerings in terms of libraries, museums, and performing arts spaces. (Yes, Berkeley and Illinois have larger overall collections by volume, but nothing on par with the Ransom, Blanton, and Benson at UT, for example.) I'm definitely not placing UT over Berkeley and Michigan overall, but it actually does beat them in this regard.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
So...</p>
<p>Berkeley = PHarvard (most prestige)
U Michigan = PYale (2nd strongest programs across board)
UVa = PPrinceton (strong undergrad)
UCLA = PColumbia (good school in popular city)
UNC = PDartmouth (no idea why)
William&Mary = PBrown (no idea why)
Wisconsin = PUPenn (no idea why)
UIUC = PCornell (both good at engineering)</p>
<p>Quote:
Wow, there are a ton of berkely fanatics on this forum. Apparently the idea that no college is better than any other for every person does not apply to Berkely. I'm not saying Berkely isn't a really good school, (it is), but you don't see nearly as many die-hard supporters from any other school; you'd think they'd mostly be Harvard or something... </p>
<p>I think s/he said that Berkeley > most Ivies, not that Berkeley is better than every other college for every other person. I think you can make an argument that Berkeley > some Ivies when looking at the University as a whole (undergrad wise, maybe only on par with Cornell and maybe U Penn). Anyway, there seems to be a lot of Berkeley fanatics but also a lot of Berkeley haters. ::shrug::
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>I think that no offense, but a lot of you are under-estimating University of Washington. Its on the rise for undergrad (it was named one of the best buys in the fiske guide to colleges and had a 4.5/5 academics rating), and for grad, its on par if not > than UIUC and has the NUMBER 1 MED SCHOOL! Enough said. About the above poster, here's how I think it goes:</p>
<p>Berkeley ~ Harvard (most prestige)
U Michigan ~ PYale (2nd strongest programs across board)
UVa ~ PPrinceton (strong undergrad)
UCLA ~ PColumbia (good school in popular city)
UNC ~ PDartmouth ()
William and Mary ~ PBrown (possibly because it is the most unlike the others)
University of Washington~ PUPenn (This was in my opinion your mistake. UW perfectly matches Upenn because it is the lesser known of the ivies located in a major city, and still has solid academics)
UIUC ~ PCornell (both good at engineering)</p>
<p>what do you guys have to say to that?</p>
<p>Evergreen State College?</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>Just no.</p>
<p>Just like the Ivies, there are two types of top publics - the stronger undergrad focused (e.g., UVA, William and Mary) and the more research oriented (e.g., Wisconsin, Florida, Illinois, Washington, etc.) Each type are strong in their own way. Berkeley and Michigan can be likened to the Harvard and Yale of the publics - outstanding at the undergrad and graduate level.</p>
<p>I don't agree on Ohio State being a public ivy. It's not even close. just recentky did they go from accepting everyone to almost everyone.</p>
<p>and frankly, the school is HUGE, so unless ur in one of their (tough to get in and space limited) honor's colleges, then u def. won't get a public ivy acedemic experience.</p>
<p>hmm lets see.</p>
<p>you have the ivy league which is a sports conference in the north east where the teams compete in 1AA football.</p>
<p>and we have the "8 public ivies" which are schools which some guy just decided were the 8 best public schools (or whatever slightly different but in essense the same definition he gave them) and otherwise have no relationship to each other.</p>
<p>i'm just kinda tired of this peversion of the term "ivy league." honestly, if the "ivy league" consisted of the 8 best schools in the country (if you could even quantify the 8 best), i'd venture to say that you'd be looking at a different set of 8 schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i'd venture to say that you'd be looking at a different set of 8 schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>by different do you mean "radically" different? let's take a quick look ... Cornell would have a tough time justifying a position vs., say, Stanford/MIT, but the other 7 schools (HYP + Brown / Columbia / Dartmouth / Penn) all make very strong cases - not to mention that, at the very minimum, you start with HYP to begin with (so without debate you've already got roughly 40% of the Ivies right back where you started) ... but either way - and here is the the point - there still wouldn't be a single public school on this list, so you are back to where you started (at least where this thread is concerned)... so, what's your point again?</p>
<p>that it's a pointless exercise to try and measure up the publics vs. the Ivies? I couldn't agree with you more.</p>
<p>yes, jags... the "Real" Ivies are no more than a sports conference and they definitely aren't all the best in the country either. But the concept has clearly become synonymous with the top universities in the public eye, regardless of how accurate it is. That's why it's okay to make the "public ivy" analogy. As I said earlier, it's probably also a good analogy since just like the real Ivies, there are more research-focused and more undergraduate-focused top publics. So for the purposes of this thread, you could just as easily say the top publics (and there are more than 8 anyway).</p>
<p>the_prestige,</p>
<p>you never seem to fail to live up to your user name. i find it humorous that you claim you chose it soley because of the movie.</p>
<p>"and here is the the point - there still wouldn't be a single public school on this list"</p>
<p>on what list? the list of ivy league schools? of course not because none of the public schools are a part of that sports conference...only imagine what would be happening if rutgers was in the ivy league...</p>
<p>and when i said "different set" i literally meant different set. a set is a group. if even 1 part of the group is different...its a different set. if the schools in the ivy league was truly the "best of the best top 8 in the world omg uber sweet 1337 awesomeeeeee" then the 8 schools would neatly rank 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 every year in whatever ranking you choose. as it stands only 4 are in the top 8 in the USnews rankings, 1 is in the top 8 in the washington monthly rankings, 3 are in the top 8 in the University of Florida's top american research universities ranking, 5 in the top 8 in the atlantic monthly's ranking, 4 in the laissez faire college rankings...and so on.</p>
<p>I'm not hating on the schools in the ivy league. i could care less. I'm just saying that it gets annoying trying to compare them, or people saying "getting a ivy like experience" or stuff like "w&m offers the closest to an ivy experience." really w&m is like what...dartmouth in the middle of nowhere new hampshire? or is it like penn in the middle of the ghetto of philly? i forget which one williamsburg is like. the schools are each so different to each other that trying to compare 1 school to a group of different schools, imo, is stupid.</p>
<p>Why use ivy nomenclature to justify the quality of a school - when in reality what Ivy League really means is crappy sports conference.</p>
<p>JWT,</p>
<p>yes i am aware that the term "ivy caliber" or "ivy (insert word here)" has become the vernacular for academic excellence. but most of the people who use it that way couldn't name the 8 schools in the ivy league if their lives depended on it...silly wouldn't you agree?</p>
<p>"but most of the people who use it that way couldn't name the 8 schools in the ivy league if their lives depended on it...silly wouldn't you agree?"</p>
<p>I'm thinking that most people couldn't. But, those in the ivy league don't care about 'most people' ... only the important people (recruiters and grad schools), and you can be totally sure that they know whose in the ivy league and whose not.</p>
<p>
[quote]
and you can be totally sure that they know whose in the ivy league and whose not.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Those who can't spell "who's"? ;)</p>
<p>burn :-) :-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
when in reality what Ivy League really means is crappy sports conference
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wow, feeling a little bitter are we? </p>
<p>The Ivy League is technically a sports conference, but everyone here knows that the term has taken on a much larger meaning over the years (decades), namely, that of academic excellence. </p>
<p>Just because you go around shouting at the top of your lungs that "the Ivies are only a crappy sports league!!!" - do you really think you are going to change people's opinions that the Ivy League is synonymous with academic excellence? Do you really think that this will stop people from creating posts like "What are the Public Ivy Schools?"</p>
<p>
[quote]
i could care less.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>seems like you care a great deal.</p>
<p>For me the best public schools are UCB,UCLA<UT austin,UNC chapel hill ,uva and UM.
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321230/site/newsweek/%5B/url%5D">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321230/site/newsweek/</a>
<a href="http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/news/p...ceos_04.05.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/news/p...ceos_04.05.asp</a>
<a href="http://www.utexas.edu/opa/news/04new...ing041108.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.utexas.edu/opa/news/04new...ing041108.html</a>
<a href="http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/council/mw_rankings.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/council/mw_rankings.htm</a>
UT Austin - Cornell and UT will build the world's fastest computer used for public reasearch in Austin!</p>
<p>UMich
UCB
UCLA
UVA
UNC
UT
WM
UWisconsin</p>
<p>In no particular order</p>
<p>Put North Carolina State Unviersity on there if UMD is up there</p>
<p>No offense, but NCSU isnt close to UMD-CP</p>
<p>Jpod but no offense I don't truely respect your opinion if somebody else says I'll listen, in some areas NCSU matches if not exceeds UMD-CP for instance engineering.</p>