How top are we talking? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? It will vary for each
For top 10, you must have both really high. That said, GPA must be high in relation to one’s high school. My GPA is a 3.5ish, yet I’m in the top 10% at my high school. I would say rank is a better measurement. For top ten, you should be top 5% and 34+/1550+ for a normal public school. Competitive magnet school and highly regarded high schools will be a bit more flexible, either top 10% or 25%, depending on the high school.
For top 20, there’s a bit more wiggle room. I think a high score can compensate for a slightly lower GPA. A 1600 and a 3.4 GPA may make the admission officer give the transcript a second glance. Should a high score and a strong growth trend be the explanation for the pair, I think you would be fine. Likewise, a 4.0 GPA and a rigorous course load (high rank, basically) will perhaps excuse a lower score (29-32). That said, neither of these can be lacking too much.
For top 50, scores are more important. I know a few schools in the top 50 that have accepted everyone from my high school with a 36 or a 1600, more or less regardless of GPA. That said, I have never seen a single student from my high school with such a high score and a GPA lower than 3.3. I think that even here, GPA must be at a certain threshold, such as a 3.0, and a higher score (33+) would pull one up to be competitive. Likewise, a solid GPA, 3.85+ in a fairly rigorous course load would help bring up a lower score (27-30).
@ConcernedRabbit I don’t know about a low-ish SAT/ACT score being “excused” with a high GPA. Some high schools just are not rigorous. If one has a high GPA and low SAT and AP scores, that could mean the high school gives inflated grades. A top student at any high school should be also earning high standardized test scores or they really are not in the same league as the kids who have both. I don’t buy the argument that some high GPA students don’t test well. If one doesn’t test well on an SAT but has a high GPA, how did they earn their good grades at school?
This is an idiotic statement: she contradicts herself. So says Harvard…
“Generally speaking, the SAT is not very important,” said Marilyn McGrath, director of undergraduate admissions at Harvard College. “It helps us calibrate a student’s grades.”
@woogzmama “Every college I visited with my sons said “curricular rigor” was the foremost criterion, so that means GPA for academically-demanding classes.” Sorry to split hairs but curriculum rigor does not mean GPA. It means what it means: curriculum rigor. It is a qualifier for the GPA. In other words “Curriculum rigor” means that, theoretically, a lower GPA from a more rigorous school would have more weight than a higher GPA from a less rigorous school. Now lets not be silly the very top schools get both unless they dont care when it comes to special populations they are making exceptions for: athletes etc
Nobody should have trouble getting straights As in any high school in the world. I highly doubt anyone cares about “curriculum rigor” in high school, where the hardest thing you’ll learn is the intuition behind integration and differentiation.
I think your claim that no one should have trouble getting straight A’s is entirely faulty. In my school, out of 1000 kids, only one kid was able to get straight A’s in all of their classes, while taking the most rigorous courseload (AKA, all AP’s and high honors). I have no idea what you meant by that comment, but I will assure you this. There are high schools that grade inflate, yes, and several students have an easy time pulling straight A’s, but there are other high schools that grade deflate will poise a significant challenge to get straight A’s, a challenge that will certainly provide a fair amount of trouble.
Maybe I was making too broad of a generalization, but I really do feel sorry for anyone who actually had to study to get straight As in high school.
In the end, people are more focused on superficial aspects of a person and not the quality. I don’t care if your B is worth more than some middle-of-nowhere high school’s A+. I’ll still take the A+ guy because it makes me look better to my boss.
I hope you use ratemyprofessors.com and picking the easiest classes when you’re in college.
This makes sense to me. There are so many high schools in the US where the top kids in the school (with 4.0 unweighted GPAs) get very average test scores. And there are schools where most of the kids in the top 20% of the class have very high test scores. Standardized test scores (including AP scores) can definitely help calibrate grades.
@AbstractMath Wow. I do not get what you’re saying. At our very competitive public high school, I know kids getting all As in non-honors classes. They would really struggle in our school’s honors and AP classes. I know many kids who tried an honors math or English class only to get a C and then decided to go back to the non-honors class the following year. Our honors and AP classes are HARD. Out of 750 in a class, maybe three kids get all As in all honors and AP classes. Believe me, you would rather work with A-/B+ student with all honors than a non-honors A student. There is no comparison.
Our son comes home from cross country practice at 6:30 and starts his homework. With BC Calc, APUSH, AP Physics, AP Lang and Honors French, he is nose to the grindstone until 11:30. Lots of homework and studying on weekends too. He’s a hard worker and he’s bright. His friends with lesser schedules are done with homework in 90 minutes. They aren’t challenged to manage their time and they aren’t learning as much. It’s a completely different high school experience.
Your son’s friends will be more successful and lead a more fulfilling life than your son.
I’ve seen it happen 100% of the time.
Hard work doesn’t lead to success. Being someone who can seduce the opposite gender is a more marketable trait than someone who takes tons of AP classes.
@AbstractMath my point was just that rigor matters to college admissions reps. To say that it shouldn’t doesn’t change the fact that it does. That being said, our S likes school and likes being challenged. He does it for himself, not for admissions purposes. Everyone defines success in different ways but we just want our kids to be life -long learners and curious about the world.
We are officially off topic now so I hope the thread can return to the OP’s question.