What do you think, Parents?

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>I've been lurking on cc for sometime and have found your advice to be very helpful. </p>

<p>Now, I need your help. </p>

<p>I'm not sure which tests to retake. </p>

<p>Ethnicity: white
Sat: 2150, 680M, 700CR, 770W
Subject Test: 710 Chem , 680Math 2
Major:Engineering</p>

<p>Schools :
Princeton
Cornell
Duke
MIT
Stanford
Harvard
Yale
Upenn
Northwestern
Columbia
Rice
Umd college park </p>

<p>I'm not asking for my chances at these schools. I already know I have my work cut out for me. </p>

<p>So, which tests would be in my best interest to retake in Jan, my subject tests or my general sat ?</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>Dave.</p>

<p>Dave–first off, what about being able to AFFORD any of these schools? Many of them top out at well over $50K per year. And you don’t list your GPA either.</p>

<p>Are you a junior or senior? If you are a junior then you need to retake SAT I and math II. Your math scores should be closer to 800 if you want to be an engineering major. If you are a senior then forget about it (re-taking).</p>

<p>I have a 4.0 GPA at one of the top high schools in the country.
I’m a senior.</p>

<p>I’ll qualify for aid at the schools I’m applying to. My parents have promised to cover the rest.</p>

<p>Do you have a list of safety schools too? Also, look at the websites for the schools to see if they accept new test scores after you have applied, some do not. Is your 4.0 weighted or unweighted? What classes have you taken? What are your AP test scores? You say “one of the top high schools”, what you basing that on? What is your class rank?</p>

<p>Since you are interested in engineerring, your subject scores are too low for most of these schools, maybe with the exception of college park.</p>

<p>okay. Let me be more specific. </p>

<p>My school is ranked on US News and World Report.
We don’t rank. </p>

<p>Extra-Curriculars:

  • Substantial Research at State flagship university
    -Founder of a successful Non Profit
  • Marching/ jazz band
  • Editor for school newspaper</p>

<p>Awards:

  • Ap scholar with distinction
  • Many international and national science fair awards
  • Axa Achievement finalist</p>

<p>Teacher recs: one of the best students she’s ever had
Counselor: great
Essays:</p>

<p>4.0 is unweighted.</p>

<p>Senior schedule:
-AP Bio

  • AP Calc AB
  • Honors Physics
  • AP Gov
  • AP Lit
  • Advanced French Lit</p>

<p>IF (and that is a big IF) these schools will still allow you to retake - I would retake the Math 2 and Chem and then maybe take the ACT if you can. With Math scores lower than 700 in both the SAT I and SAT II you are going to be hard pressed to get accepted into these schools and engineering. </p>

<p>Goodluck and think about a safety or two. Your grades and test scores are great but you have all reaches on your list (maybe umd is a match) for everyone!!!. You do not want April to come with no acceptances!</p>

<p>I’ve spoken to the admissions officers at these schools. They’ll accept the January SAT, but they won’t accept the ACT .</p>

<p>Ive been accepted to several safeties already.</p>

<p>re-take subject tests and do ACT and hope for 35 or 36.</p>

<p>Oops - missed the ACT info - retake everything!</p>

<p>Your math scores are low for engineering all around at these schools (excepting MD) which are all highly selective. I don’t think that you’re competitive for ANY of them. </p>

<p>Find out if any of those schools will accept a January test date. </p>

<p>I would retake the SAT emphasizing math and quickly add some schools where your current SAT is competitive if you’re not happy with your safeties. Subject tests only matter at the most selective schools (which is what you have).</p>

<p>Honestly, as an engineering major, I say pick one or two of those schools and hope for the best. I don’t think you have a real shot at any of them and it’s money out the door for applications, but you never know. It’s highly unlikely you will pull your scores up enough to be a viable candidate for any of those schools.</p>

<p>Ranking in USNWR is meaningless, sorry. That is not going to help you at all. At a “top” high school, a kid with a 4.0 would be expected to have close to perfect ACT/SAT scores, just not seeing that with you and grade inflation comes to mind. The fact that you are taking AB Calc and not taking AP Physics also will hurt you for an engineering major admission. Your AP scores are very low for an engineering major. Your EC’s are not outstanding enough to override your “low” scores.</p>

<p>Again, apply to one or two of those schools just because you won’t get another chance to try but start loving one of your safety schools because there is a 99.9% chance you will be attending that school.</p>

<p>Also, nail your parents down on an exact dollar figure they can pay. Sure, you might get some aid but that can leave you anywhere between $10,000-50,000–are they prepared to pay that–even at your safety schools.</p>

<p>“My school is ranked on US News and World Report.”</p>

<p>-- Adcoms will consider this, but not much. Your obstacle is that your 4.0 GPA does not correlate with your scores, particularly your subject achievement scores.</p>

<p>“Substantial Research at State flagship university”
“Many international and national science fair awards”</p>

<p>-- It is well known that these activities and awards could be mentor-driven, where students are more doers than thinkers. Unless your mentor(s) can provide letters highlighting your independence, the impact of such awards is often less than one might think.</p>

<p>SAT1 and both subject tests, if you want a chance at these very selective schools. If you can only retake either SAT1 or Subject tests, it’s rather a toss up – probably both subject tests. Not sure why you didn’t retake SAT1 already if you wanted schools from that list.
Definitely remove MIT from your list.</p>

<p>Another strategy would be to apply to A&S then transfer to engineering, if you are just not a good test taker. I don’t think any engineering school would be a walk in the park, so if your math scores are below 700 you will struggle anyway even if you get in.</p>

<p>OP - How did you prepare for these exams the first time you took them? I am asking because frazzled kids have had several classmates with GPA higher than test scores would have predicted, who were able to raise SAT scores by over 100 points with cursory preparation (the math score seems especially amenable to coaching), and some of these have been successful in engineering majors as well as other majors requiring good quantitative skills at some of our nation’s top universities. Other students with SAT scores in the mid-600’s or so have been successful in engineering majors at less selective schools as well, including students who have not taken AP classes.</p>

<p>HOWEVER, all of these schools except for UMd remain reaches even if you are able to raise your scores, and I do not know enough about UMd to know whether or not it would be a safety. </p>

<p>I would also take a closer look at your safeties even if you do get admitted to one or more schools on your reach list. Since you have already been accepted, you can even try reaching out to professors at these schools, in areas where you might want to do research.</p>

<p>One advantage of schools that admit a wider range of students is that intro classes in math and science- even the honors versions - do not assume that incoming engineering students, even those with aptitude and willingness to work hard, have already taken BC calc and beyond and AP classes in both chemistry and physics, and they are more likely to be run as true intro classes rather than review classes.</p>

<p>If you have to choose between the SAT and the subject tests, and it looks like you do, I would choose the SAT, since all schools require it, and only some require the subject tests.</p>

<p>I agree all these schools are super reaches. I think the SAT math is more important than the subject test math at this point, but really to have a chance you ought to have both. Some of these schools don’t require you to declare a major when you apply, I definitely wouldn’t mention engineering at them if I could help it. You look much more like my younger son - took advanced math and physics, but his strength was in the social sciences. (You aren’t even taking AP Physics.)</p>

<p>I gave a possible approach to do both SAT I and SAT II on the same day in this thread. You’d have to check with College Board to see if they will let you do this. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1423866-parents-please-help-me-decide-whether-retake-my-sat-i-take-sat-subject-physis.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1423866-parents-please-help-me-decide-whether-retake-my-sat-i-take-sat-subject-physis.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I’ll copy it here:
Take the Physics SAT II in Melbourne Australia on Saturday Jan 26.
Take the 4:30pm Qantas Airlines flight to Honolulu that arrives at 6AM.
You’ve crossed the international date line, so it’s Jan 26 again.
Take the SAT in Honolulu at 8am.</p>

<p>Travel light to clear customs quickly and take a cab from the airport to the Honolulu test center.</p>