<p>Dartmouth College and Cornell University are my top two schools. I intend to apply to one of them for early decision, and they both are big-name schools with Ivy reps. </p>
<p>I told my counselor at the beginning of this school year that I intended to become a doctor, and she gave me a list of BA/MD programs. I mentioned this to my parents, and that was a mistake because now they want me to try for programs because of the security you get from not having to take the MCATS and all the medical school applications. I don't want to go for a program because none of the schools I am interested in offer the BA/MD program except Tufts, which I've yet to confirm because it's not mentioned on their website.</p>
<p>There has to be a reason why doctors fill their premed requirements at big-name schools and then do the normal med track. Basically, what does a big-name school do for you? Does it make medical admissions easier, given that you do well at, for example, Dartmouth?</p>
<p>Tufts does have an early-acceptance program to their medical school, but you don't apply for it as an incoming freshman. You apply for it as a sophomore undergraduate.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.tufts.edu/med/admissions/md/special/earlyacceptance.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.tufts.edu/med/admissions/md/special/earlyacceptance.html</a></p>
<p>You might be interested in reading this:</p>
<p>
[quote]
How many students apply to the BA/MD Early Acceptance Program, and how many are admitted?</p>
<p>Over the last several years, we have typically received between fifty and sixty applications for this program each year. Of the applicants who meet the minimum eligibility requirements, a majority (>50%) are invited to interview. Of those who are interviewed, a majority (>50%) are admitted to the BA/MD Early Acceptance Program.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So that would make it seem that >25% of those who apply get in (which in med schol terms, including Tufts Med School terms, are really really good odds). </p>
<p>Friends at Tufts who've been accepted to the BA/MD program seem to think that Tufts undergraduates get favored for this early-acceptance program over undergraduates from other eligible schools (BC, Brandeis, Holy Cross).</p>
<p>Anyway, apply where you want -- and if Dartmouth and Cornell are above your list than Tufts, definitely apply early. However, for what it's worth, I think that there's not /that/much difference, especially for pre-med, between D, C, and Tufts -- they're all known for having really excellent natural science programs.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information. I want to put this in simple terms. Is it worth applying for a BA(BS)/MD program and securing the future, rather than applying to and possibly getting accepted to your dream school? Does a name like Dartmouth on your resume help you get into a good medical school, given that you do well there?</p>
<p>ONLY 50 to 60 applications per year?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does this reflect most of these programs that they're generally not that popular?</p>
<p>It means that most people don't have the resumes, grades, experience, and recommendations to even consider applying that early because they'd be flat-out rejected.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does a name like Dartmouth on your resume help you get into a good medical school, given that you do well there?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No. If you have C's at Dartmouth it won't get you anywhere. If you have A's and good recs and a great resume, it'll get you to the same places if you have A's and good recs and a great resume from most anywhere else -- especiallly these specific schools you've mentioned (Tufts, Cornell). Your undergrad school is not so much a career move choice as a stepping stone to one. What you do once you're there will define it -- DEFINITELY not the name (unless it's Harvard -- I've found that Harvard alums are the most enthusiastic, it's like a self-perpetuating dynasty). </p>
<p>However, is it worth going to your dream school? Yes, if it's your dream school for all the right reasons (you might guess by now that 'prestige' is not one I'd consider a good reason).</p>
<p>Certainly C's at Dartmouth will sink you while A's at a state school will help a great deal. The question is: what about those students who score in the 3.5 range?</p>
<p>Adding to the complexity is: how well would a student do at each school? Because it's clearly false (most of the time) that a student's GPA at Dartmouth will be the same as it would be at Nowhere State. Which would be higher? Lower? How much? These questions are not clear.</p>
<p>Again -- failure will doom you no matter where you go, and excelling is your panacea, wherever you go.</p>
<p>The question is: what about the sizeable proportion in between? And I'm not sure there's a robust answer to this question.</p>
<p>I don't care about prestige, but Dartmouth just clicks. Tufts clicks the same way, but a little less. And, Cornell clicks even less because it is such a large school. The Ivy League label means absolutely nothing to me. Honestly, if I liked Rutgers, the NJ state university, I'd go there, but I don't.</p>
<p>I guess I should clarify a bit more. If two people, one studying at Dartmouth and another at Rutgers, have the same grades and GPAs, which is more likely to get accepted to a respectable medical school? The Dartmouth student or the Rutgers student?</p>
<p>Again, it's not just grades. It's the labwork, independent research you did (or didn't!). It's the internships you did (or didn't!). The good recommendations you have (or don't!). And then, of course, how well you do on your MCAT.</p>
<p>I'm a recent college grad and have many recent college grad friends from every school -- Harvard to tiny LACs just outside Milwaukee... And the successful ones are the ones that made the best of where they were, no matter where that was: </p>
<p>COLLEGE IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT -- the opportunities you take and make, or don't.</p>
<p>1.) That's not the right question, because the same kid probably wouldn't get the same grades at both schools.</p>
<p>2.) It's also not the right question because by far the most common outcome is that they both get rejected. Second most common is that they would both get admitted. Only in an extreme case would the two candidates be so borderline that there was only space for one of them.</p>
<p>3.) Other factors would get looked at first: essays, timing of application, etc.</p>
<p>4.) Does this mean that the school makes no difference? No, but that it's a very difficult effect to quantify.</p>
<p>I realize that. Alright, I guest that answers my question for the most part. I guess I know now that I just don't want to go for a double degree program. </p>
<p>Last question. Are all the three schools I listed good in the natural sciences area?</p>
<p>Yes. Seems you'd get more opportunities for individualized interaction with profs and opportunities for research at Tufts or Dartmouth though, mostly because of their LAC-size.</p>
<p>Let me ask another question then. If I do well at whatever college I go to, then can I expect to get into at least one of the top medical schools or no? Are there such things as safety schools or are all med schools just as hard to get into? Basically, the guarantee that comes with a program is appealing, but not so much the actual university.</p>
<p>According to what I learnt on CC, if you do well (GPA, MCAT, ECs, Shadowing, interview.. and the list goes on), you will likely end up in a med school (there is NO guarantee).
However, for top med schools, doing well sometimes is not enough, and the admission is just very hazardous and unpredictable even if you do well.
If I did well, I would be HILARIOUS to end up in a med school (I don't even think about a top med school). But this is subjective.
Also, I don't think there are safeties. Even the less prestigious med schools will still accept only like 10% of the applicants.</p>
<p>"If I do well at whatever college I go to, then can I expect to get into at least one of the top medical schools or no?"</p>
<p>Define "well" and define "top."</p>
<p>if you're looking at top med schools, 'well' is not enough. If you look at the admissions rates of Duke, Stanford, Yale, and Harvard Med Schools, you'd be looking at sub-5% acceptance rates.</p>
<p>I think it's all relative. Take a state like California. If you could get into both Cal State and UCLA which would med schools prefer to see?</p>
<p>You could probably get good grades at Cal State rather than UCLA, but UCLA would be more challenging.</p>
<p>It's kinda like AP classes. Colleges want to see AP classes rather than Honors classes although you may do bad in them. </p>
<p>Can anyone help?</p>
<p>If your ultimate goal is to become a med. doc., ANY combined BS/MD program even the one that requires MCAT is preferred over ANY Ivy league or similar big name school, because the acceptance rate to Med. Schools is below 50% overall in the USA. I heard a lot of horror stories including people with high GPAs from Ivy schools who would not get a single interview applying to med. schools and it is getting tougher every year. $50,000/year for what?</p>
<p>1.) The guarantee is valuable. I am not arguing this.</p>
<p>2.) A premiere education, however, is valuable in and of itself. Being surrounded by an entire campus (well, half a campus) worth of America's most talented students is a very special experience.</p>
<p>3.) Ivy admission percentages generally do not fall below 70% and are usually in the 80s. Some schools (Princeton, Harvard) can generally push 90%.</p>
<p>4.) Ivy League tuitions generally are not $50,000 a year.</p>
<p>5.) Candidates from an Ivy League school who cannot get "a single interview" are almost certainly those who botched the admissions process itself, not the path leading up to it. </p>
<p>6.) The candidate who can get into a BS/MD combined program is almost certainly not going to be in the 20% (approximately) of Ivy League students who cannot get a single admission, because they're strong enough candidates in the first place.</p>
<p>$50,000 / year is not a TUITION but the whole cost, which is most likely higher than this figure and can be afforded only by very, very rich or very poor who get financial aid. Some BS/MD candidates will make it to Ivy, most will not, while if they make it into BS/MD program they will be part of a very elite group in Honors Programs with tiny classes (sometime, less then 10 people) and exclusive attention of faculty and special guidenance that you cannot possibly get at any big name school. In addition, from day 1 in undergrad. school they will be making invaluable connections into very exclusive network of their future medical school. Not to mention, that if they choose to apply in-state, they ususally end up with almost 100% tuition scholarships or even full rides and medical school portion is also much cheaper than out-of-state. There are people who would give it all up for big name that they will mention for the rest of their life, but we are in free country, everybody is entitled to pursue their goal. From this perspective nothing is better / worse, it just should be a comfortable match.</p>
<p>Find me four (i.e. half) Ivies with total costs higher than $50,000 and I will withdraw my point.</p>
<p>Tiny classes and faculty attention are certainly an advantage of BS/MD programs. Networking is overrated.</p>