<p>Hiya there, I just started eleventh grade in India, and I'm planning on applying to all the ivy leagues and a couple others like Berkeley, stanford, MIT and the rest. I'm not too worried about grades and sat scores, I have all that under control. My extracurriculars are what I'm worried about. The first and biggest one is my violin playing- but I've been playing for only about 3 years. I was also part of the student council body, and I'm taking a higher level french exam at Alliance, a french institute. I've been doing french for 7 years. I've also participated in one or two city level competitions, which I won- keep in mind these happened in my freshman year- does that even count? I also take extra college classes for IIT preparation, which is at a high level - like first year undergrad level, just because it's interesting. I don't even think this counts, but I speed solve the Rubik's cube at under 20 seconds. I also did some, not much, I mean really not much, volunteer work through my school for a nearby orphanage and old age homes.
My question is, will colleges think these EC's are weak? I fear that their weakness overshadows any academic achievements.</p>
<p>Your mean “weakness” is that you don’t appear to be exceptional at anything. You’re not exceptional at academics - those are the applicants who do PhD-level work in high school or excel in international academic competitions. You’re not an exceptional musician or athlete or exceptionally committed to volunteer work. You are probably not exceptionally rich or politically connected. You’re not even exceptionally “well-rounded” (applicants who have achievements in many different areas instead of focusing their time on one or two main activities). </p>
<p>So, overall, you’re just a “solid” applicant who doesn’t stand out from the crowd. Most applicants to the top universities have a strong high school record and would be qualified to attend. It takes something more to get noticed and admitted.</p>
<p>Any EC is good that shows a certain passion, dedication and perhaps leadership qualities. You need to decide what you care about outside of school and pursue it to the highest level possible. Also, don’t worry about keeping up with American students when it comes to ECs. Admissions staff know that not all countries offer the kinds of opportunities available here. Just know, that as an international student from India applying to the top American schools you really have to be a standout. Academically, how do you compare to other Indian candidates? They are your competition. You will be considered the weaker candidate if they, for example, have international olympiads behind them and you have a city level competition. </p>
<p>B@r!um, wow. Ok. That made me cry a little :P. Do people really do PhD level work in school? Wow. I am doing Iit courses, which are some of the toughest courses out there. They cover sciences to the extent that I would consider it bachelors level. If not PhD. I have a very strong high school record. Why aren’t I exceptionally we’ll rounded? I’m genuinely concerned, I’m not being arrogant, if it seems that way. I really can say with confidence I am currently excelling at my school and beyond. I admit, I’m very very very far from an exceptional musician, but shouldn’t he french part be considered my passion too, considering I’ve been dedicated for seven years? Thanks for your help.
Katliamom, thanks! I hope I do excel in academics. I came I the top 1 percentile in an all india examination. I came first in the country in the computer sciences and sciences. I consistently place first in exams, and have been at the top of my class since as long as I can remember. I know I’m not exceptional, there are billions like me. But am I really that… Unexceptional?</p>
<p>I can’t say how exceptional or unexceptional you are. That’s relative. It all depends on who else from India - and maybe south Asia in general – is also applying. Don’t forget that the Ivies only have a few spots each year for international students. The odds are against you; that’s just the simple reality.</p>
<p>The real question you need to ask yourself is why do you want to apply to all the ivies? Are you really in love with all of them? Colleges will be looking for fit with their school and there is no way you would be a fit everywhere. The thing they are mostly looking for in ecs is genuine passion. Did this student do this because he wanted to add an extra line on his resume or does he genuinely care? </p>
<p>Alrighty. Thanks. I would appreciate any other input. After thinking a little about it B@r!um, I would have to disagree that I’m unexceptional at everything. I just can’t accept that. I do agree that I participate in fewer things but I do work extra hard and push myself. If I had to say one thing, it’s the academics I’m exceptional at. But I did ask, and thanks for your input.</p>
<p>A book I just read recently says the best EC is the one that is hard to explain. In other words you list it and people wonder - how’d he do that as a HS student?</p>
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I have met international students with a “stronger extra-curricular profile” than what you have described here at my undergraduate college (Bryn Mawr), and you’re nowhere near the students I met at Stanford. Okay, you have been studying an extra foreign language and you’ve been playing an instrument for 3 years. Both are pretty standard hobbies to pursue on the side. </p>
<p>Let me describe to you a few of my classmates from Bryn Mawr.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>A girl from China who developed an improved version of a prosthetic limb and convinced a manufacturer to bring it to market. (All while still in high school.) She was also an active artist, a div III athlete and one of the nicest people I have ever met. </p></li>
<li><p>A girl from Europe who was the 2nd chair of the young adult section of a major political party in her country. She was fluent in 4 languages and spent a lot of time volunteering.</p></li>
<li><p>A girl from Africa who’d been homeless for much of her youth. A charity organization helped her go back to school and apply to college in the US. She excelled academically after she was given the proper resources, played several (!) sports competitively and was very active in organizing cultural events in college.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>I guess what I’m not really seeing in your self-description here is initiative or a sense of purpose. All I see is someone who is good at being a student (excels in school, takes extra language classes and violin lessons).</p>
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<p>This is an excellent example of “hard to explain EC” - you look at it and wonder - how did she do that?</p>
<p>LOL,these examples are 1 in a billion.Listen, don’t really be ashamed of your EC’s believe it or not College Confidential does not represent the body of all the students you will be competing with.
If you want to get into the ivies you either have to be really good at sports(you’d have decent chances if you’re really good at cricket), your parents are REALLY Important/Rich or both, you’ve won a few international competitions.
I suggest you pick easier to get into universities and then transfer( after you’ve worked really hard and got great EC’s) to the university you want.</p>
<p>
Not a good strategy; the transfer acceptance rate at these top-tier colleges is much lower than the freshman acceptance rate.</p>
<p>To the OP, I’d suggest taking a look at the admissions results threads and compare your EC’s to those who got admitted. Also note for Berkeley, you will need to pay full freight as an int’l student, $55K/year plus transportation.</p>
<p><a href=“MIT Class of 2018 Consolidated EA/RD Results Thread - Massachusetts Institute of Technology - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/1588918-mit-class-of-2018-consolidated-ea-rd-results-thread-p1.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“Official Stanford 2018 RD Results Only Thread - Stanford University - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/1630186-official-stanford-2018-rd-results-only-thread.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/1623204-official-uc-berkeley-class-of-2018-accepted-students.html”>http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/1623204-official-uc-berkeley-class-of-2018-accepted-students.html</a></p>
<p>
It’s actually not that hard to explain. She had a family member with a prosthetic leg who kept having itch and skin-irritation issues with every prosthesis he tried. She figured out a modification to the part that makes skin contact to make it skin-friendlier without undermining the mechanics of the prosthesis.</p>
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Not really 1 out of a billion. These are 3 out of about 30 international students who started college with me. Everyone I got to know had an interesting story. (FWIW, these were all financial aid recipients. Since the competition for international financial aid is so keen, of course these students are in some way more outstanding than the average Bryn Mawr student; however, these are the kind of applicants the OP will be competing with for entrance to the top universities.)</p>
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<p>I was guessing she had a parent who was a doctor working with amputees or creating prosthetics. The actual story is even more impressive.
I think the author’s “hard to explain” means that it makes you wonder “how?”
Unlike typical ECs of clubs, competitions, medals, etc that may be hard to achieve but it’s obvious how a student would participate. The thing with an EC like this girl’s is that it will stick in the admission officer’s head because it’s memorable and also inspiring.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention I’m an american citizen, if it makes any difference.
I don’t have rich or important parents, tbh if that’s why they reject me then I have nothing to regret.
I believe the best extracurriculars are difficult to explain because they are wonder cases. How does one compete with a homeless African kid, or a Chinese wonder inventor?
I compete with the kids in my category.
I am going to be applying to the top universities, I won’t settle for less, but I will try to make a stand out achievement within the next two years, that’s what I have gathered from your help.
Seven people I know got accepted into Cornell and Princeton with little to no extracurriculars but with excellent academics.
Thanks skieurope for the links, they helped.</p>
<p>Being an American citizen makes a HUGE difference!
It means that for financial aid, you will NOT be competing with SouthEast Asian kids!
And since many universities don’t admit international students who can’t afford to attend but admit “domestic” applicants regardless of ability to pay (whether or not they provide suffiient FA), your chances increase a lot. 
If you apply to “meet 100% need” schools, you will not be competing at all - they meet need for all domestic applicants (citizens and permanent residents). They get to define need so run the Net Price Calculators.
You will be competing with them for admission, so make sure to include at least two schools with an admission rate of 30% or more.
B@r!um is right, most internationals who get financial aid are truly exceptional not just in the classroom but also outside of it. We’re talking top 5 in the country.You’re lucky you’re a citizen in that you’re exceptional in the classroom even if your achievements don’t qualify as “exceptional” but that won’t matter as much since you won’t be in the same “pool” as them and your EC’s are strong enough for a “domestic” applicant that you’re competitive for most schools - but for the reasons she cited, two schools with an admission rate of 30% or more should really be the <em>minimum</em> number you apply to if you don’t want a shut out. (If only to avoid the humiliation of having to say you got shut out … having a couple admissions will make things easier for you and your parents even if you don’t intend to enroll.) You DO need to include schools beside “lottery” schools (schools with admission rates of 25% or less are “reach for everyone”, and even more so if the admission rate is below 20%).
Apply to universities and LACs ranked in the top 25 <em>except</em> for public universities that don’t offer merit aid (you’ll be considered out of state everywhere).
What’s your parents’ budget per year?
Note that any college in the top 50 (university or LAC) would be considered a “top school” in the US, since there are 3,700 colleges in the country - regardless of what universities your friends or parents may have heard of. Any university/LAC in the Top 25 is considered “elite”.
Most public universities in the top 50 will have an Honors College: check the websites to see if students admitted to that Honors College get special scholarships. Berkeley is an Honors College on its own so no special merit scholarships (everyone who get in would be Honors Material elsewhere), Penn State Shreyer is an awesome Honors College but the scholarship is only $4,000, ASU Barrett has competitive scholarships but the costs are slightly higher (better dorms, better food)… so check carefully for each university.
As for your EC’s: being in the top 1% in your country’s definitely your top asset. See if you can win a national prize/rank (not necessarily #1 of course) in one of your activities and you should be good to go - adcoms will know that being ranked in a city-wide competition in India is very impressive and overall your application looks strong. If you apply to a couple schools ranked 25-50 (including their honors college) and a couple schools with admission rates above 30%, you should be fine applying to as many Top 25 as you wish.</p>
<p>Okay. First of all, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to give me a detailed answer like that. Thank you
Yes, that is amazing advice, I will strive for a top rank in a nationwide exam, I plan on taking a couple.
Yes, I will definitely apply to some safety schools, you’re absolutely right, that would be the smart thing to do.I’m even considering Virginia Tech, since parents pay taxes there, so I might get instate.</p>
<p>And thank you so much for the other information, truly grateful for it.</p>
<p>Along with what MYOS1634 said, I would also suggest to keep doing volunteer work until you graduate. I had read an article where a number of admissions officers were interviewed and they said that long-term volunteer work really sticks out. The reason is because most kids only do short term volunteer work and concentrate on sports and academics or holding a position in student government. </p>
<p>Find a cause that you are passionate about and go volunteer. </p>
<p>That is a good idea. I shall actually look into that, thanks for the input.</p>