What good is the FAFSA EFC if the Colege makes their own up.

Paying for College
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<p>My son wants to attend a Music Conservatory in the Fall & has applied to a couple of others. We already have one son in his 2nd year of College & our FAFSA EFC was calculated at $2000 per student ($4000 total). However, we just got our FA package from the Music Conservatory with a disappointing scholarship & they have us tapped for $13,000 per year in parent loans which we can't possibly hope to qaulify for or even come close to affording since we are low income. I could probably come up with the EFC that FAFSA figured but what good is the FAFSA EFC if the University can come up with their own EFC that they dream up.</p>

<p>P.S. - Their EFC is basically whatever is left after their meager scholarship & every student loan they can dream up is added into the equation, they just say oh what the heck we'll just let the parents pay for the rest. How do I get the university to pony up some more FA & increase the student loans?</p>

<p>-Thanks-</p>

<p>Med</p>

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<p>Oh by the way, I forgot to mention that the $13,000 parent loan per year is just for ONE child, I have'nt added in yet the parent loan for the other son. ):</p>

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<p>From FAFSA

[quote]
Note: Your EFC is not the amount of money your family will have to pay for college nor is it the amount of federal student aid you will receive. It is a number used by your school to calculate the amount of federal student aid you are eligible to receive.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A lot of people make the mistake of thinking the FAFSA EFC is what you will have to pay which causes a lot of shocks. All it is a number used to determine your eligibility for federal aid. Federal grant aid is extremely limited (for 2009-2010 the maximum for the largest federal grant, the Pell, is $5350 and that requires a O EFC, anyone with a Pell of over 4617 is not eligible for any Pell, and most other federal grant money requires Pell eligibility). Most schools do not have the funds to promise to meet full need, and federal aid will not cover the costs of most schools, not even State Us..</p>

<p>Perhaps they need to change the name to something other than Expected family Contribution.</p>

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<p>Another thing you need to know...most music conservatories have limited amounts of funding for scholarships and any other aid. Most aid is actually MERIT based aid and is awarded based on the audition the student plays, not based on need at all. Most conservatories do not meet full financial need.</p>

<p>You don't mention which conservatory this is...but if it is one of the private ones, the costs run up to $50,000 a year including room/board/tuition. If your son received all but $13,000 in "free money" (grants or scholarships) from a conservatory in this price range...he got a LOT of money. </p>

<p>You might want to post your query on the music major forum (below under college majors). Some of the folks there can give you some perspective about music conservatories and financial aid.</p>

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<p>Yes, the conservatory is a private one (They all are) & yes the tuition is $50,000 a year which is Ridiculous. The scholarship he got was for $11,000 per Semester that is $22,000 per year out of the $50,000 total which is great but that still leaves $28,000 per year which is still a lot, he does get the pell grant but there is no way we can do $13,000 a year in Parent loans when our total family income is less than his tuition for a year. Is there anyway that a conservatory will up it's scholarship offer or increase the students's loan amounts?</p>

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<p>Would you really want a kid majoring in music to graduate with huge loans? </p>

<p>As others said, most schools just don't meet need. It's unfortunate, but it probably means your son just can't afford such schools. Graduating with a lot of debt would most likely mean pursuing music as a career won't be possible. So please think this through and consider cheaper options.</p>

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<p>Medmann, I will agree with thumper1 but want to clarify what she describes as merit aid can be further defined more appropriately as a talent or performance award (to clarify and differentiate it from academic or stats based merit awards).</p>

<p>In a strict sense, I know of no US based conservatory that is not a private institution, yet there are a number of conservatory level programs of extreme stature within the auspices of public universities.</p>

<p>And, as swimcatsmom points out, there are quite often gaps, both in performance based and non-music academic offers.</p>

<p>Having dealt with the semantics, a current thread from the music major forum on aid offers. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/671452-interesting-conversation-admissions-office.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/671452-interesting-conversation-admissions-office.html&lt;/a> There are also additional links within.</p>

<p>A full ride or full tuition performance based scholarship can happen, but it is the rarity, and not the norm, even for the most talented and promising. FYI, both thump and I have had our dogs in the race. Excuse the pun, but we know the score.</p>

<p>I hope your son has musical options that are more financially viable.</p>

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<p>Well my son only stubbornly applied to 3 conservatories of Music & will only be getting a scholarship offer from 2 of them. We tried to get him to apply to some cheaper colleges that also have a music program but he refused. Is it too late to get any fiancial aid from say a cheaper state college or have all the deadlines passed? I guess he could tread water for a year at a community college until he can reapply next year & get fianancial aid. We are still waiting for the offer from one Conservatory in California but their tuition is about the same as the others, any other ideas?</p>

<p>-Thanks-</p>

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<p>Medmann, without knowing the specific conservatories and instrumental discipline, it's hard to peg off the cuff options.</p>

<p>While not directly related, a similar active thread from the music major forum addressing non acceptances in a music pursuit <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/674962-didnt-get-accepted.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/674962-didnt-get-accepted.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Tangentially, there is an internal link, discussing the musical gap year and various options.</p>

<p>It may be possible to try and find a solid conservatory level program with spring or rolling admittance, but it would depend entirely upon his level of talent, institutional need to fill a spot and the willingness of the school to schedule a non-standard audition. Again, the instrument and level of talent would be a prime mover in getting this to happen, as well as the need to do some real down and dirty research. </p>

<p>As you mention CA, if you are instate, I understand there are a number of CA cc's that have viable music programs. While not necessarily ideal, perhaps a year at one and continued high level private instruction and as many participatory ensemble experiences as possible, while assembling a more financially viable list for next year admissions.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>As thumper1 suggested earlier, you may want to pursue this aspect further in the music major forum.</p>

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<p>Too late to edit my post above, but here's one more link <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/168470-sticker-shock.html?highlight=can%27t+afford%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/168470-sticker-shock.html?highlight=can%27t+afford&lt;/a> from the music major forum It's more of a hindsight in your specific case insofar as considering costs before, rather than after the audition/application process. I offer it as food for thought if you end up deferring a music admission to next year.</p>

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<p>My son plays the Concert Grand Pedal Harp (6ft tall) & about 90 Lbs weight, most symphonies have 1 or 2 Harpists or those without a harpist would like to have one. My son is very good & will most likely be accepted anywhere he applies if we can make the financing work. Unfortunately, we are not residents of California but I have a sister with the same last name that is, Humm. We may look into the viability of attending a conservatory for just next year & then transfering to a lower cost university after that, we might be able to swing one year at a conservatory.
Thanks! you folks have given me some food for thought, I just wish we had more options for this year, live & learn I guess.</p>

<p>-Thanks!-</p>

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<p>$22,000 is a very fine performance award from a conservatory.</p>

<p>And just for the record...my son attends University of NC School of the Arts which is a public funded conservatory, has its own campus and facilities...that is part of the U of North Carolina system. It IS a public conservatory. It's the only one I know of.</p>

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<p>Did your son consider Curtis? Very competitive, but very generous, too, and an excellent school.</p>

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<p>Curtis provides free tuitions for all students...but I will say...this family says they cannot swing $13000 in loans per year. The cost of housing, utilities, transportation and food in the greater Phili area would likely cost that much.</p>

<p>I still say...this kid got a fabulous performance award from this conservatory...really good. Attending a conservatory is going to cost this family something. That's just the way it is for MOST applicants. As Violadad said...full rides at conservatories are VERY rare. Gapping financial aid is very much the norm. AND there are not too many students getting $22K per year in performance aid.</p>

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<p><<unfortunately, we="" are="" not="" residents="" of="" california="" but="" i="" have="" a="" sister="" with="" the="" same="" last="" name="" that="" is="">></unfortunately,></p>

<p>that doesn't work for a state college. You can't just use a family member with the same last name to be considered an instate resident. For a private college, it doesn't matter if you are instate or not as far as cost.</p>

<p>the only way to increase the amount of student loans (assuming you already are being offered the max perkins (which varies by school)/stafford (which is 5500 for freshman) is to apply for and get turned down for a PLUS loan. I think that qualifies the kid for an additional 4K in unsubsidized stafford loans</p>

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<p>thump, I forgot NCSA. Indeed a public conservatory.</p>

<p>Curtis offers full tuition to all admits, but rarely offers assistance for room and board. Colburn, in LA is a full free ride, but the competition for these is a crapshoot even for those at the very top of the performance food chain, and instrumental needs from year to year may skew the amount of open slots. </p>

<p>Juilliard, NEC, Peabody, Eastman tuitions range in the $29-$35k arena, excluding room & board, and a $50k tag is probably on the high end of COA.</p>

<p>Still, a $22k talent award is between 66% and 75% tuition on average among these institutions, and is a good offer for a desirable student within the year's audition pool.
There may be some negotiating room, but that is school specific.</p>

<p>Part of the problem may well be the OP's optimistic expectations, and not fully understanding how these schools award talent scholarships. Academic merit aid no matter how good the scores and stats have little or no bearing on straight conservatory admission talent scholarships.</p>

<p>It's simply a factor of how well the student performs in the audition, and the strength of that performance within the audition pool.</p>

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<p>Just my opinion...a student who got a $22,000 per year performance award did VERY well. This is a LOT of scholarship money from a conservatory and not many students get that amount. I would view the money as the equivalent of 1 1/2 years of FREE schooling ($88,000 would cover the costs of about 1 1/2 hears at most conservatories)...not a bad award at all.</p>

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<p>Your son sounds very talented and I'm sure he deserves the best education you can afford. Is it possible he can parlay his talent into extra earnings while in school to help close the gap? I'm sure harpists are rare and in great demand for various functions, especially near the larger cities. Also, is there an instate private school where state aid might help close the gap?</p>

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<p>sk8rmom, you bring up some valid points, but as the parent of a conservatory trained performing musician, I'd like to make a couple of observations.</p>

<p>Gigging at the conservatory level can range from a marginal few $ to some decent per semester earnings, but it's a function of the institution's active, tacit or implied support (many will actively market their performers/ensembles and maintain a small office/website to handle bookings) in conjunction with a studio instructor's personal support of these activities.
Some go so far as to discourage active outside participation, particularly in the first couple of undergrad years, seeing it as diversionary. </p>

<p>The harp is not as rare an instrument as you may perceive, particularly in the metro areas where most strict conservatories are located. NYC, Boston, Baltimore, (in fact the whole DC-Boston corridor) as well as LA, Rochester, Montreal and most metro areas are home to many conservatory trained harpists, some with tenured orchestra chairs in ICSOM and ROPA orchestras, and a greater number still performing in numerous unpaid community and recreational ensembles. To make ends meet, most of will have active freelance, contract, or teaching positions (as well as non-music employment), so please don't assume there is little competition. Your competition will also include grad and doctoral/GPD/AD candidates as well, particularly at the "name" conservatories.</p>

<p>Breaking in is tough, for all. </p>

<p>For a student contemplating a performance career, the key criteria in pegging a school is often the studio instructor/private teacher, and the overall peer quality of the student musicians. For those playing at a conservatory level, finding the right mix is a tough choice, and while there may be options at public and private institutions, not all aspects always mesh. Having to "play down" to the level of those around you is self-defeating and counterproductive.</p>

<p>The OP's son is obviously talented. The level of the award indicates a strong candidate, and I know his financial dilemma and the choices he must make. But the criteria and circumstances of school selection for performance based admits vary considerably from the norms of the standard academic based admits that comprise the bulk of the posters at CC.</p>

<p>Any audition based admit is a crapshoot, regardless of the level of talent of the applicant. As it's been said, it's akin to writing your essay on the spot, and in front of those who will grade it. Performance/talent scholarships are a direct result of how a candidate fares within a specific audition pool. The OP's son may well have received a full tuition or perhaps even a full ride at a smaller, less prestigious program. Whether that would "fit" is a personal choice, as is putting all your eggs in one or very similar baskets. </p>

<p>Just for information, those wanting an overview of the music admissions process should read the great thread by BassDad here: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This path is not for the faint of heart, or the undedicated. It is critical to know your options going in, and balance program selections accordingly as best as possible. The reach/match/safety methodology still applies, but the criteria for selection doesn't follow the standard academic based criteria. Thoroughly understanding an institution's scholarship and financial awards process is an important part of this, and for many is the determining factor.</p>

<p>I wish the OP and son success.</p>

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<p>Wow, Swimcatsmom - we did make that mistake. We have an EFC of $33,000 with a not too large yearly income - well short of $100,000 - and thought that meant colleges would expect us to pay $33,000 per year because of it. We're waiting on finaid packages from a couple of privates and are currently depressed about this number, so you're saying there might be hope for S to receive some decent need-based grant?</p>