What GPA really measures:

Applying to College
1

<p>Guys,</p>

<p>Here is what the GPA really measures:
Dedication(time) in other words dedication as a function of time.</p>

<p>GPAs do not measure and cannot measure:
Intelligence.
Total understanding of material.
How capable you are.
How talented you are.
Your passions.
Your creativity.
Your potential.
etc.</p>

<p>The average student (excluding a gifted savant) if dedicated enough can make good grades no matter how difficult the course is; a side effect of this dedication is better understanding of the material at that point in time - Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school.</p>

<p>This 'dedication' is the time you put into the course(s). It's a very linear relationship....
the more time you put into the course, the better you will do, the more difficult the course the more time it requires...etc. thus your final grade(s) or total GPA reflects this 'dedication'. Therefore, if you don't put the time for whatever reason... having two jobs... long commutes... not visiting the professor after class for questions...working nights....missed homeworks....parties....girls (boys)....etc, this will automatically reflect in your class or GPA (again...unless you are extremely gifted somehow)...guaranteed!</p>

<p>This can be better seen in students that say for example live on campus, do not work, get financial assistance from their parents or a scholarship and don't have to worry a thing about anything ... just study, eat and sleep. These type of students if 'dedicated' enough will do much...much...much better than students that have a job, live further away from campus etc. cannot stay after class because they need to catch. These type of students cannot dedicate as much time.</p>

<p>The current system of education was designed and conceived by the industrial age to mass produce employees to meet the demands of the booming economy of that age. If you take a close look, you take classes bound by time schedules, deadlines, same age group, classification of subjects, the ability to follow instructions, etc. A very cookie cutter architecture, just like in the outside world when you get a real 'job'. We are in a new age of economics and that principle of education does not apply anymore. Just like the way 'pagers', 'rotary phones' and 'floppy disks' once served and are now a thing of the past, so is the current education system.</p>

<p>The GPA creates discrimination.
Why would any academic institution let people graduate with low GPA?
Some institutions can let you graduate with GPAs as low as 2.0!
If GPA is so important, why not let people graduate only if they have a GPA of 3.5 and above? ...figure that out. For the reasons listed above, a smart student with low resources (as mentioned above) could be 'marked' for life with a low GPA after graduation. (Generally speaking)</p>

<p>When a doctor takes the United States Medical Licensing Examination, they either pass or fail. Same with an engineer, Lawyers, Real Estate agents, brokers, your commercial airplane pilot etc. Most of these professionals do not practice based on their GPA but on a Pass/Fail criteria. Do you go to your dentist and ask? "Hey Doc, just checking you competency.... what's your United States Medical Licensing Examination score and your final GPA?" or before you have an operation, do you ask such a question?...</p>

<p>On the other hand, for an employer, a high GPA means a dedicated employee that will put time into the job and meet the 'deadlines' rather than someone that just knows 'the stuff' but likes a more 'relaxed' or 'laid back' way of getting the job done. Employers look for people that can be loyal and dedicated to their jobs, no matter the circumstances. Employers do not want a genius that will rather not take the job seriously, take too long to do the job or be uncommitted. Everyone needs to have some fundamental knowledge to compete, but a high GPA shows how much 'effort/time/work/dedication/etc' you put into things... a key determinant that employers love!</p>

<p>The measure of a GPA is not for everyone and should not be, as a matter of fact GPAs should not exist:
What was Steve Jobs' GPA? Bill Gates? Sam Walton's? Einstein's? ...etc
Actually Einstein was low performing student at one point in time!</p>

<p>I have worked in the industry for many years, and all I can say is 2 things:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The measure of a GPA should not exist because it creates discrimination, only a pass/fail criteria like the ones Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, etc have when they go into practice.</p></li>
<li><p>Watch out for employers that demand a high GPA....typically those jobs are hell on earth - They will suck your lifeforce dry! ... Then replace you when your energy is depleted!</p></li>
</ol>

<p>:)</p>

<p>Accumulator
GPA 4.0</p>

2

<p>“The current system of education was designed and conceived by the industrial age to mass produce employees to meet the demands of the booming economy of that age.”</p>

<p>So then what is your remedy? What efficient system to you propose that better measures: </p>

<p>Intelligence.
Total understanding of material.
How capable you are.
How talented you are.
Your passions.
Your creativity.
Your potential.</p>

<p>It’s rather easy to find failings within the current system. What would you suggest to solve these?</p>

3

<p>Why is dedication to completing a task in a manner that meets stated criteria a bad thing to measure?</p>

<p>Seems to me that may be a much more important predictor of success in the workplace, and in life generally, than many other attributes, such as:</p>

<p>Intelligence.
Total understanding of material.
How capable you are.
How talented you are.
Your passions.
Your creativity.
Your potential.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Do you have data on this, or are you just asserting it based on your theory?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Really? Don’t even the less conventional companies need workers who complete projects well and on time in order to bring their products to market? All those iPhones and iPads didn’t create themselves. Teams of skilled workers completed projects on deadlines in order for Apple to bring innovative products into the marketplace.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I wish I could, frankly. Do you really believe that all physicians, dentists, architects, etc., are equally skilled and equally smart? Is it not possible that some doctors are dumber than others, or even worse, kind of lazy slackers who have been coasting as much as possible since the last day of their residency? But I can’t ask a doctor his USMLE score. I do, however, ask where a doctor did his or her residency. It’s far from perfect, but it’s the best indicator I’ve been able to find so far of whether a doctor is smart and dedicated.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>What industry are you talking about?</p>

4

<p>Regarding the question about asking your physician his/her GPA: my family is chock full of medical professionals. While GPAs are posted for people to see, you can darn well bet doctors know the abilities and credentials of other doctors. When they are looking to recruit a doctor into their practice or are searching for a specialist for themselves or a family member – do you just think they want anyone?</p>

<p>For the vast majority of us, we’re stuck with Dr. so and so – luck of the draw. For those in the know, they go to certain doctors only.</p>

<p>Pass/fail? Sure – but not satisfactory in the least. The barely passing med school person, last in his class, is still a doctor – and is practicing somewhere.</p>

5

<p>What gpa measures is whether you can recognize a high goal and reach it, one way or another- and depending on the requirements to reach that particular goal. It also depends on context- the standards at Nowhere U versus the cream.</p>

<p>Where does one get the idea that it’s easily attained if all one does is study? Or, that there is some guarateed relationship between hours devoted and gpa? Studying can be rote learning, not consideration, reasoning or analysis. You don’t master these or, eg, polish writing skills, through hours spent in the library, but through learning that includes competent interaction. Just devotion, a count of hours, can miss the other life lessons that contribute to job-worthiness. </p>

<p>IIRC, the current system (or rather the frame of lectures following time slots) has been in effect for several hundred years, if not more, and is largely pre-industrial in format. Take a look at the older colleges in the US. One diff is classes are now taught in English, not Latin. I believe the increase in discussions, break-outs, etc, in class are also new-ish introduction. Someone can offer more on that or correct me.</p>

<p>And, btw, to grad from med school, testing now includes skills learned in practice, not simply through traditional classes.</p>

6

<p>Exactly T26. I am a lawyer by education, and head and shoulders above many of my colleagues. Notice I didn’t say peers? Pass/fail is not a satisfactory way to measure ANYTHING except perhaps gym class. We all excel in things, that’s why we have rating systems…and grades/gpa is a rating system.</p>

<p>Would you prefer to know that I kept ALL of my clients off of death row, or just that I “passed”, because half of them are not on death row?</p>

<p>And this statement "This ‘dedication’ is the time you put into the course(s). It’s a very linear relationship…
the more time you put into the course, the better you will do, the more difficult the course the more time it requires…etc. thus your final grade(s) or total GPA reflects this ‘dedication’. "
Oh really? I could put 24/7 into biology or chemistry or physics, and never get above a “C”. You’re telling me that the “C” reflects my dedication? I don’t think so.</p>

<p>I, too, would love to see some statistics to support your claims, accumulator. And what industry are you in?</p>

<p>it’s very simple and everyone is interested in opinions, but your posting should be labelled as opinion, because without statistics from a recognized authority, that’s what it is.</p>

7

<p>I do not disagree with much of what you said, but would like to see the research to back it up. </p>

<p>As far as GPA creating discrimination that marks you for life…bunkus. I am 46, have worked full time since out of college. Not once was I asked my HS GPA by an employer, and I can not remember being asked my College GPA either (though I did have to provide a transcript to one employer). </p>

<p>and if this is true:

Then anyone that does not make “good grades” can automatically be assumed to be below average. Or they are not dedicated or are lazy. I do not agree with that premise. </p>

<p>As far as docs go, I have met some top of their class surgeons that I would not let put a hand on me. Often the real education of a physician, and I would assume many professions, actually comes when they enter the workforce and begin the hands on application of the education. I know that most of my education came after college. College was a base to start of with.</p>

8

<p>Funny. You don’t sound like someone who has worked in industry for years, and you don’t write like someone who got A’s in English. In fact, this whole post sounds like sour grapes to me.</p>

<p>Had Einstein, Steve Jobs, Sam Walton and Bill Gates not put a lot of time and effort into what they did to get the results they got, nobody would care how smart they were. Sadly, if you can’t show that you have track record of completing what you’ve been asked to do, it’s not going to matter how brilliant you are.</p>

9

<p>While I agree that GPA is by no means an excellent measure of much of anything, I do take a few issues with your argument:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Dedication is important. Let’s not bash it. Someone of average intelligence with considerable dedication can outstrip someone of high intelligence who lacks dedication.</p></li>
<li><p>GPA does not increase linearly with time spent on a course. The marginal return on time is diminishing.</p></li>
<li><p>If your goal is a high GPA and a high GPA alone, the best plan is not to spend ridiculous amounts of time on courses to get a high GPA, but instead to spend exactly as much time as it takes to get an A in each course. All further work would be pointless, as it would not increase your GPA.</p></li>
<li><p>Dedication can only make up for so much innate mediocrity. I know plenty of students who have performed extremely well on exams after studying for two days that other students who studied diligently for six months quite literally failed.</p></li>
</ol>