<p>Disabled people who graduate from college and end up in a job that isn’t suitable for their skills inevitably bounce around from job to job until they find the right fit-- exactly what non-disabled people who end up in an ill-fitting job do. If they are so disabled that they literally can’t find any work that they can do, I highly doubt they would have made it through college and I would think only a very small percentage do… you have to realize accommodations don’t take the disability away, it doesn’t solve the problem. You don’t make it through college with a disability without becoming a master of adaptive skills, the accommodations don’t take away the need to learn to adapt-- they just close the gap a little bit when there is just simply no adapting. But they don’t go all the way, they don’t remove the problem, and the student still has to develop the adaptive skills to meet in the middle-- and they are able to reach levels of skill they might not have ever been able to meet if they just failed out their first year without having any scaffolding to allow them to learn these skills. I think the majority of people do learn how to adapt well enough to find some kind of meaningful work that they can do.</p>
<p>But I think we are talking about two different things here. “Hand in the paper whenever and don’t bother to talk to me about it first” isn’t a disability accommodation. It may be something you do out of pity or mercy for a student with a disability, but it is not what the world is talking about when they say “accommodations.” If every teacher a student has ever had says, “hand in the paper whenever and don’t talk to me first,” then of course that student is never going to have to learn how to “meet in the middle” and won’t be successful but that is not what is supposed to be happening, and in my experience it isn’t what is happening. If you’re a professor and that’s happening to you, disability services at your school isn’t set up well enough or else your student isn’t making use of them-- which is their problem, not yours or disability services and shouldn’t be a knock against real accommodations.</p>
<p>As I think of my 13 years in my own business I’m not aware of anyone coming to me or a manager requiring accommodations. I’d far rather give someone a private space, an extra break, let them wear headphones if they could then knock it out of the park then deal with some of the nincompoops I’ve come across who need to be spoon fed everything and can’t think for themselves. (I’m having an annoying morning - lol)</p>
<p>My son is dyslexic and he doesn’t get accommodations in college, he just takes longer to read, and therefore has chosen a major where there isn’t a lot of reading involved. </p>
<p>As a business owner you shoot for what is a reasonable atmosphere for most people and set standards that are quantifiable. When we moved I chose where everyone sat because I knew this one didn’t like the distraction of people walking around, this other one was quite social and multi-tasked well when she felt in the middle of stuff, etc. For some a private office is a huge perk, for others it feels like a punishment. </p>
<p>Ultimately the job has to get done and most employers will have a certain set of standards or the person will be out of a job.</p>
<p>Apprenticeprof, the universities I’ve worked at don’t permit so-called retroactive accommodations to be given to students who did not register with disability services and self-disclose prior to the due date for the work in question. I recently had a student who obviously had issues all semester long but refused to register and self-disclose. He failed the course. I couldn’t do anything for him because I have to hold students to the same standards and requirements. I also don’t get to decide what accommodations are appropriate to the individual’s disability (i.e. flexible or alternate due dates) because that’s not my area of expertise. The disability services office makes that determination and makes the list of appropriate accommodations pertinent to the disability, and the student has the legal duty to self-disclose in writing at the beginning of the semester in order to receive those accommodations. </p>
<p>I’d be careful to document the pressure put on you by adminstration to provide retroactive accommodation to students who weren’t registered with disability services at the time they had the problems. You need the protection.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice, NJSue. In the case I’m thinking about, a dean just e-mailed me and said “We have documentation of a mental health issue, so don’t hold it against her.” Frankly, I don’t think this dean (who wasn’t particularly high level) was necessarily following protocol either, but I’m pretty much the lowest woman on the totem pole, and had a course head who was very hands-off that semester, so I didn’t question it further. But I do still have copies of the e-mail exchange, if it ever becomes an issue.</p>
<p>Apprenticeprof, I’ve had those emails from the deans or vps. They’ve been far less likely to be about disabilities than “family emergencies” or other situations. They come across as threats from the admin and often simply mean that somebody’s parents call to complain. I usually feel intense pressure to comply. </p>
<p>Because there are so many legal issues involved with disabilities, I would respond to any email from the dean by saying I’d be going to the disabilities officer for advice on the matter. One thing I learned is that what you do for non-disabled students can have an effect on those with accommodations. For instance, the last campus disabilities officer informed my that a student with extended time as an accommodation got whatever was given any other student plus the extension. So, if the class period was an hour, but I let a non-disabled stay in a classroom for an hour and a half, then the accommodated student needed to be given an hour and half plus his extra time. There can also be legal problems involved with giving accommodations retroactively. So, in any matter involving accommodations that isn’t clearly spelled out on the students card, I walk across the lobby to my boss’s office (she’s the campus disability officer) and ask. I go with whatever she says to do and let her deal with the dean.</p>
<p>I fail to see what flex time / working at home has to do with this. I need my people to juggle multiple things, be able to react on the fly, meet deadlines, remember what I tell them, etc. regardless of whether they’re at home (like I am today) or whether they are sitting in an office. I’m plenty flexible - I have employees who work only overnight because that suits their family schedule, or who work from home only, or whatever - but they still have to get the job done. I can’t imagine a situation in which I’d pay someone less and let them not meet deadlines.</p>
<p>I responded to the below quote in the other thread, but it probably belongs here…</p>
<p>ADA may cover some of these issues in the workplace</p>
<p>Absolutely, when the issues are physical…wheelchairs, handicapped prkg, etc. However, I don’t see companies being req’d to accept that Employee A and Employee B get to spend twice as much time on a task than Employee C and D get to spend. </p>
<p>Can you imagine the assembly/qualify control/inspections lines? There would be the “slow line” for those with given “extra time” and the “productive line” which is where money is made. </p>
<p>Or could you imagine deadlines for Quotes and Proposals…“uh, we have two employees who get “extra time” so when you, the Customer, say that you want that Quote by Jan 1st, well, you’re going to have to wait til Jan 15th.” </p>
<p>Having worked in the Defense Industry where we worked “days in a row, late into the night, no days off” to respond to a RFQ/RFP (request for quote/proposal) within the given deadline, I can’t imagine ever responding with, “hey, we get an extra 30 days because of Employee A and B”.</p>
<p>There are jobs and careers require people to juggle multiple things and meet deadlines, etc. People who can’t do that would be unsuccessful in careers that demand those skills. And no one is obliged to hire them for a position that requires those skills.</p>
<p>But those are not the only types of jobs on the planet, are they?</p>
<p>What jobs don’t require meeting some kind of deadline? If it was free-ended, it’s a hobby, not a job. Name one kind of job where someone will pay you without any expectation that you complete X by Y time.</p>
<p>It wouldn’t affect deadlines, but flextime, job share and working at home absolutely affect employees, in that it can lessen some of their day to day stress which gives them more time & energy for their work.</p>
<p>I also was not aware doing away with deadlines was such a common accommodation. I am highly skeptical. </p>
<p>I had a hard time with deadlines in school sometimes but never do at work. At my job I can finish what they think will be weeks worth of work in a day. School just does not correlate with work as much as some people want to think, or at least it doesn’t have to if you’re in the right line of work.</p>
<p>Ema, good for you. That’s one hell of a success story. I don’t know you, but I’m happy for you. Sounds like you are in a good place, both personally and professionally.</p>
<p>I think you are right in that the LD person needs to choose their profession wisely. I doubt someone who must have a slow pace to succeed would gravitate towards a profession which requires the opposite skill set.</p>
<p>And like someone said, a student with a learning disability has probably been coping and adapting since first grade. My youngest is dyslexic, in engineering and doing very, very well. He had a required English/Writing class as a freshman and really hated it because it is sheer torture to have to read volumes and write lengthy papers. I can’t imagine him majoring or taking a job that required extensive reading and writing. He drafted his engineering reports in his team and did most of the design, another kid did the coding on his team - this kid was an international with pretty weak English skills and a third kid who was a whiz at everything except coding and design, edited and “fixed” the draft my son did of the report and worked with my son on some of the calculations. They worked as a team and allocated their strengths - that is how it works in the real world. They got the highest grade in the class and decided to “stick together” through this class and ensuing classes whenever possible. Each contributed their specific skill set. Kids with disabilities know their disabilities and tend to steer THEMSELVES into areas they excel which translates into locating jobs they can perform. Smart people tend to work in teams with people who compliment their skills and deficits and smart people actually do tend to know their positives and negatives - that is the way it generally works in the real world.</p>
<p>^ Good real life-ish example. Here’s another team approach example… </p>
<p>Thinking back to college, there was one friend Joe in engineering classes eventually realized that that he could NOT take notes and also follow the lectures well. He had friends that let him make copies. Nobody minded. (He didn’t copy mine - handwriting is not my forte.) Unencumbered with note taking, Joe closely followed the professor’s proofs and problem solving and asked really good, insightful questions. In fact, he probably did that better than any of us would have done even if not taking notes.</p>
<p>Just off the top of my head: research, or development of a new product or prototype that has no firm release date, would be counterexamples. Obviously you can’t just do nothing, forever; but there are kinds of work that don’t have to meet strict deadlines. In fact, there are kinds of work where you don’t necessarily know where or even what the finish line is, exactly, and the work is itself an exploration of that question. </p>
<p>Another example would be craftspeople, who have to make a certain quantity to make a living, but often do not have to produce a specific amount of output by a specific time.</p>
<p>And, let’s face it: as much as those of us who own homes might wish otherwise, contractors and handymen do not work on deadline. Or if you have one who does, who promptly does every job you need him to do right away, or gives you a verbal or written commitment for when it will be done and always sticks to it…well, then you are pretty lucky, and ought to get him something nice for the holidays! LOL</p>
<p>^^
I think the point was that being late with a hobby doesn’t usually have significant ramifications…financially, career-wise, review-wise, etc. You may end up annoying your hobby-mates if you’re late/slow, but that’s about it.</p>
<p>There are also jobs where you are not given a project that has to be completed over an extended period of time, you just help the next client in the queue, process the next request, etc. Needing extended time to take a test doesn’t necessarily mean you are fundamentally a slow worker. People may have difficulty planning and executing large, multi-step projects that span weeks at a time, but no difficulty at all just doing what is in front of them.</p>
<p>Good point, DP. And what about people who <em>are</em> slow, but do quality work? Can’t hey still be given a piece of a project or a smaller project to do (perhaps, again, for less pay than coworkers) and still contribute? </p>
<p>I know I definitely am methodical about tasks I do; for instance, when I worked at a corporate pizza joint years ago, the manager once told me I made the most picture-perfect pizzas of all his staff, but that I made them wayyyy too slow. (I also, notoriously in our family, take forever in the shower and getting ready to go somewhere, but I am very clean and well coiffed as an end result.)</p>
<p>seconding@momofthreeboys about adaptation ans steering oneself toward strengths. while not a diagnosed learning disability, my visual/spatial issues make math difficult for me. i would not be well suited to a job like engineering, but i enjoy and excel at reading and writing. those are my strengths, and i play to them.</p>