<p>What happens in the real world/work world when a student who has had a lot of accommodations for LDs/ADHD etc, graduates?</p>
<p>I asked this question in the context of another thread, and decided I would like to open it up to broader discussion so I could learn more.</p>
<p>So many students get things like extended time on tests or assignments, modified work loads, note takers, etc....</p>
<p>what happens when these students graduate and get jobs? How do they handle the workload/pace/organizational responsibilities?</p>
<p>What accommodations are employers required to make? For example, for a student who had a note taker in college, is the employer required to provide a note taker at meetings? Does an employer have to adjust the workload or project deadlines ? </p>
<p>I've never heard of either of these things being done in the real world of work, so my question then becomes, how do these students manage without accommodations--extra time, note takers, etc-- once they become employees?</p>
<p>I’ve thought about this question because on her first attempt at college DD probably should have accepted accommodations (we had the required paperwork) but did not. She crashed and burned. Down the road with more maturity and a better fit major at another college… she did ok. </p>
<p>Your example in the other thread seems an extreme case. There is probably reason for concern. But often in less extreme cases I think the grad picks a job (or own business) that caters to passions and sweet spot of strengths. In the real world, many jobs have no analogy to the 1-hour exam.</p>
<p>The key concept in the law is that accommodations must only be made if they are “reasonable”. I can’t imagine that hiring a notetaker or adjusting deadlines could ever be considered reasonable in a typical workplace. This website, linked via the one above, suggests some accommodation ideas for the learning disabled: <a href=“http://askjan.org/media/LD.html[/url]”>http://askjan.org/media/LD.html</a>. I think a lot of them are wishlist pipedreams that would never be imposed on an employer (e.g., build “catch up” time into work week or work day; to reduce or eliminate the feeling of intimidation, allow employee to have a friend or coworker attend meetings), but others seem eminently reasonable.</p>
<p>As the parent of a kid with a learning disability who had accommodations in high school but has navigated college and jobs without accommodations, I find this subject fascinating and would love to hear from anyone who was able to secure workplace accommodations for a learning disability, particularly with respect to how having those accommodations affected job success and relations with co-workers.</p>
<p>Physical disabilities are covered in greater detail in the ADA and medical leaves or accommodations are generally covered under FMLA or through the employers own written handbook. As far as job restructuring it is generally handled through conversations with HR and for marginal accommodations that related to essential functions it generally is handled on a case by case basis in companies. In general, employers are not required to restructure essential functions of the job. For instance if an employee needs special equipment due to a disabilitly the employer may or may not provide depending on the how the equipment is needed for the position. For example a company would not be required to supply a hearing aid since the employee ostensibly needs that for work and not work, but might supply voice recognition software needed for an employer to perform his/her job. A company might be required to have a note taker or interpreter for a deaf employee in a training program or assistance for a physically disabled employee who is asked to travel. </p>
<p>For some of the circumstances the OP is asking about much will be dependent upon what the essential functions of the job are but there is some interpretation of ADA which might require an employers to allow a personal assistant paid public or privately to assist. I do believe there is no requirement for the business to pay for these services.</p>
<p>In general, people will be successful in jobs they are capable of doing or capable of doing with assistive equipment. If there are minor accommodations needed for a qualified and trusted or desired employee most companies will do what they can as long as the employee can meet the essential functions required for the job. As an example, someone who has terrible time management and planning skills will not be successful as a project manager where the essential skills are planning and time management. </p>
<p>So, in my opinion, as an answer to your final question, people find jobs they are capable of doing or are fully capable of doing with a minor accommodation if not related to the essential required skills.</p>
<p>I have wondered this also. Would a potential employer have any idea if a college student received accommodations such as double time for exams or a private room in which to take them? These things aren’t noted on the transcript, are they? If someone really needed double time for exams, how would they be able to do a job which has a heavy reading/writing type workload or time sensitive deadlines? If someone needs a private room in which to work, does the employer have to give them an office when the rest of the staff is in cubicles? Does the employer only find out about these things after hiring?</p>
<p>^^ Many companies have a 3 month or 6 month “probationary” period with a review at the end to determine if the employee fits the employer and vice versa. At the very minimum the vast majority of employment is “at will” which means an employee can be terminated basically without cause. Most likely if a person was woefully unable to perform it would surface at the 3 month or 6 month review or a written “improvement” plan would be put in place with or without a verbal warning. Another example - if an employee is extremely noise sensitive or needs relative isolation a reasonable accommodation for an employee who is otherwise excelling at their job might be to put them in a cube that is off the beaten track or is the “least” noisy or busy. Those types of employees might be advised to use headphones to “tune out” distractions if they ask for an accommodation and if headphones are reasonable for whatever function is being performed. And yes, most employers figure out these things because in general no job candidate is going to come in an say “I’m slow” or “I can’t stand distraction” or I can’t remember on Wednesday something I’m told on Monday."</p>
<p>I’ve been struggling with this question myself. If someone is blind, obviously it makes sense (and is legally required) to give her adaptive technology. If someone has ADD, it might make sense to give him extra time on a test, because the ability to stay focused in a testing environment for 3 + hours doesn’t necessarily say much about one’s capacity for success in a variety of settings, including many high level professions. Controlling for cognitive differences, in that case, actually gives a more, rather than less, accurate assessment of the student’s academic capabilities.</p>
<p>What to do, however, in the case of mental illness? I haven’t been apprenticeprofing for very long, but each semester I’ve had at least one student not hand in a paper and then ask me retroactively to excuse the lateness based on mental health issues. After getting some documentation that the medical issue was real, I’ve always agreed (sometimes by choice, sometimes because higher-ups made the decision and passed it on to me), but it doesn’t entirely sit right with me. There’s a fine line between compassion and enabling, and it also has occurred to me, perhaps uncharitably, that these students often seem capable of finally getting their act together when there is no alternative (i.e, “I’ve agreed not to count your paper as late once it comes in, but if I don’t get it by the time grades are due on Monday you won’t be able to graduate” ), and sometimes of keeping up an active e-mail correspondence keeping me posted on their progress and/or requesting even more time.</p>
<p>It just seems to me that once we’re at the level of behavior that, if extended into the workplace, would render a student incapable of holding down just about any job, it is dishonest to completely insulate them from consequences while they’re at college. Those consequences don’t always (or usually) have to be a failing grade, but I think the grade has to in some way reflect lateness or chronic absenteeism.</p>
<p>Just wondering, what about those students’ mental health issues prevented them from letting you know before the due date that they were having a problem and anticipated needing extra time? A student who is sick is expected to contact you beforehand, not after the fact.</p>
<p>Ideally they find a job that is built more for the way they are wired. School is pretty much school, if you don’t have the skill set for school you are always going to struggle with it. But if you manage to get through it, there are a wide variety of workplaces available to you. I had a lot of accommodations in school and needed them desperately just to barely scrape by with my grades and my life (literally) intact. I once went to my adviser and said, “I need help right now or I am going to walk over to the hospital and check in.” It was that bad. But, as it turns out, I don’t need any accommodation to work just about any typical office job… it was just school. </p>
<p>Some people that know me personally and saw how much I struggled in college wonder at my ability to thrive at work. For me honestly the biggest difference is that at work I only have to be “on” when I am on the clock… and I am EVENTUALLY off the clock, I do get time for downtime. I never did as a student and it wore me down so badly my ability to cope with my issues was non-existent. I don’t have that problem anymore. My biggest flaw as an employee is that, in large part due to my issues, I use all the vacation and sick days in a year that I am allowed-- I get overly stressed and then sick as a result a lot more frequently than the average person. Which I did in school, too, but it was more like 5 times a month than the 5 times a year it is now. But, taking those days is well within my right to do and if that’s the worst thing I do I am a better employee than most! I probably couldn’t work an 80 hour a week job without potentially running into the same problem… I chose not to go to law school for good reasons. But there are hundreds of jobs I can do with my degree.</p>
<p>I am really glad I got to get the education I have because I am really, really good at my job and I wouldn’t be if it weren’t for my schooling. There are many careers I could go into and really thrive at. I will never have to rely on the government to support me, with the supports I received in my education I was able to obtain the opportunity to be able to support myself. There were lots of “consequences” for my disability, I only got to sleep two hours a night for two years and I gained 60lbs and was constantly sick and desperate and just barely scraping by, consequences didn’t make me any more “able” – those kinds or when I wasn’t able to get accommodations or when I failed courses, it just made it even harder. But, with help, I got through it and now I have skills and I get a job, and your taxes don’t have to pay my rent. I think that’s worth something for both of us!</p>
<p>Some of the accommodations suggested are the “easy” ones…for example, supplying headphones to an employee to drown out distractions, or a magnifier or voice recognition software.</p>
<p>But what about when the employee can’t cope with the pace or volume of work expected of all employees? For example, a case manager might be expected to handle a certain number of cases/ files in a given day. Or a paralegal who is expected to maintain a daily/weekly docket, ensure timely filings, do legal research, write reports, etc. Or a project manager who needs to juggle many balls simultaneously, keep people in the loop, keep things organized, etc. Or the film editor who has to have projects done on tight schedules. The engineer who needs to come up with calculations and design solutions on deadline. The doctor who has to see patients while writing up notes and ordering tests, or the nurse who has to manage a certain number of patients and all of their different needs…</p>
<p>These are all different kinds of jobs that would appeal to people with different strengths and weaknesses…but how would someone who was used to receiving extra time or modified assignments cope? or, for a person with executive function issues, does the employer need to assign an assistant or coach?</p>
<p>Would an employer be expected to reduce the workload? it’s not always possible to change due dates or deadlines because those are often determined by externals, such as clients or courts.</p>
<p>The mental illness question is interesting as well. Would the employer need to arrange to reduce stress for the employee? And how could that be done?</p>
<p>I am just curious because these issues never seemed to come up when I was young, but now it seems so many students have accommodations of various kinds. Which made me ponder the question of what are the results for these students when the accommodations are removed. Is there a cohort of people who are a year or two out of school, who had jobs at graduation, and what are they doing now? Were they successful in transitioning, or are they floundering without the supports?</p>
<p>The kids I know who had accommodations in school, have been able to carve out careers that fit their particular talents and have been much more successful finding something that fit * them* than they were trying to make * themselves* fit into the culture of a school.</p>
<p>There are relatively few types of schools, but myriad choices of jobs/careers.</p>
<p>Mathyone, that was my (silent) question, too, although to be fair, inertia and avoidant behavior can be part of depression and anxiety.</p>
<p>Ema, I’m glad you’ve found that the real world is much more congenial to you than the school world. Obviously, you’re one case of a person for whom there wasn’t a crossover between difficulties in school and difficulties at work, but I don’t think that’s a general rule. And I suspect in some of the cases that I’m talking about, these students will do fine in whatever profession they choose - just as they would manage to get their work done on time in college if they felt that the stakes were higher. I don’t think they are deliberately taking advantage, but I do think that there is some expectation that things will work out grade-wise - and usually, they do. On the other hand, I wouldn’t advocate adopting strict “if the paper is late you fail” policies for anyone, and in general I prefer erring on the side of compassion. Compassion, however, may stop short of “just get me the paper whenever, and don’t worry about the fact that you didn’t get in touch with me to discuss this before the situation got to crisis mode.” </p>
<p>Disability/Illness and irresponsibility aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s just hard to figure out where one ends and the other begins.</p>
<p>Such a great question, or series of questions. I believe the other thread referred to is the one I started about me and my son, so I’m glad I saw this.</p>
<p>I mentioned previously that I thought “smart slackers” (whether officially ADHD or not) had a lot to offer an employer who could be flexible. But I also said they could provide a lot of value by essentially being given accommodations in return for a bargain-rate salary. The notion that an employer should be required to give them all these accommodations yet get the same pay as fellow employees does not seem fair.</p>
<p>And frankly, it doesn’t strike me as entirely fair in school, either, if there is no disclosure that the grades were earned with an “asterisk”. This is not exactly an easy position to take, because I strongly suspect my son would qualify for accommodations if he were professionally evaluated; and what’s more, my wife is a special education teacher! She is giving kids accommodations all day long. Though I don’t really mind that as much when it is kids who are never going to be able to go to college.</p>
<p>One of my DDs has an LD and got extra time on timed tests in HS, but once she began at a public University, she did not meet their guidelines for an accommodation. </p>
<p>She accommodated herself by choosing her schedule carefully. She was unable to get the gpa and standardized test scores she would have with more time, but she scraped by well enough to get into grad school. Her numbers were mediocre for the applicant group, but her letters were probably excellent because her work in real life is better than her test scores. </p>
<p>She will always have some timed test issues, but she will be successful in her career.
I have not read the other thread, but I would say it is incumbent on the person to choose a career that works to their strengths.</p>
<p>@boysx3, I think the situations you describe are ones where it is simply not reasonable to accommodate the disabled worker in light of the needs of the workplace and the particulars of the job description–and therefore the employer would have no obligation to do so. I’m not an expert in this field, but I’m sure there are court cases and administrative agency decisions and regulations that offer guideposts as to what is and what isn’t a reasonable accommodation. But as has been noted above, there’s a lot of self selection that goes on when someone with a learning disability or mental illness seeks employment. Not many applicants are going to take a job they know they can’t handle and then demand accommodations they may or may not get. That would be a poor way to start a career.</p>
<p>I am a federal employee. I have ALWAYS had an aversion to ‘noise’ that most people don’t don’t even notice. Music in stores, gum chewing, whistling, lawn mowers and many other man made and naturally occurring sounds. I had been teleworking 2-3 days a week from 2005-2009. I couldn’t take it any more. Thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown. My supervisor was always telling me that she could take away my telework any time she wanted because it was a privilege, not a right. </p>
<p>In 2010, I got notes from my family doctor and therapist stating that NEED a quiet environment. I filled out all the required paperwork, presented it to my EEOC office and was granted FULL time telework for medical reasons. I have worked from home for the past 3 1/2 years. </p>
<p>My bosses and coworkers know that I am always available. I answer the phone and respond to emails immediately. </p>
<p>While some people love the office environment, I am not one of them. I do not miss it at all. I am included in all meetings via telephone. It is not an overstatement to say it has saved my life. </p>
<p>The key for someone who feels that they will need to work in a certain type of environment is to go into a field that will be able to accommodate their needs. For example, if I was a teacher, maybe I would want to work for a cyber school where I wouldn’t need to be in a classroom full of people.</p>
<p>Exactly. There is a world of difference between “school” and the work environment and the work environment has it’s own requirements as well as flexibility. Some careers are more flexible than others. If flexibility is required, then a person needing that should approach a job hunt with that as a desired attribute.</p>
<p>Employers are not held to the same standards as schools (which receive federal money) when it comes to making accommodations for the disabled. Just as colleges and high schools are treated differently, so how colleges and employers. High schools provide many more accommodations than colleges. Colleges, for example, do not have to modify curriculum as long as course requirements are essential to the field. They don’t have to, for example, waive a math class for a psych major because statistics is an integral part of the major. </p>
<p>Employers are required to make reasonable accommodations for employees as long as the employee is capable of performing the required tasks with such accommodations. If employees can’t perform the jobs, they can be let go, regardless of any disability. In the work world, employers have a right to expect that deadlines be met, for example, because not shipping out orders on time or failing to present to clients when they are in town results in damage to the business itself. If accommodations are horribly expensive, they are also going to be considered unreasonable. As an employer, it is unreasonable to expect that I will hire a sign language interpreter in addition the employee that I need. How is my now spending double on one employee reasonable? If my employee is going to hire his own, sure, I am going to be required to allow that because that is reasonable.</p>
<p>Even colleges run into issue where rights conflict. At a conference last year, a nursing program was faced with the rights of a disabled student who needed a reader vs. the rights of the patient to privacy. Patient rights were paramount. A reader could not be brought into clinicals to read charts, etc. In that case, the student would be out of the program before she ever got to the work world. </p>
<p>OP, I think you are correct. There are bound to be situations where a disabled student gets through college only to find the work world impossible to manage in the job he or she desired. Sometimes, however, it really doesn’t matter. My D has testing accommodations for a disability. She only asks for them in certain, specific situations, but is sure glad they are there. Once in the work world, she will not be facing testing situations like these and no one will probably ever realize she used accommodations in college.</p>