@Knowsstuff Correct, MIT and Caltech are not on the radar 
What is more relevant to our decision process… do CS, Engineering kids at LACs get jobs? How do job opportunities at LACs and small techy schools compare to large universities? If this isn’t a factor because most stem kids are employable and it really depends on the individual kid to seek out/secure employment, other factors regarding academic and social seem to be more significant.
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STEM encompasses a lot of majors beside engineering and computer science. Please do not lump all stem majors together.
CS and engineering have good job prospects now, assuming the student is flexible about where he works.
Biology, for example, is a STEM major that standing alone doesn’t have such good job potential.
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@thumper1 Understood… he is considering engineering and computer science. However, as it’s too early to make decisions, he could also end up in some sort of niche stem field once he gets his feet wet. Noted that biology does not have the same job prospects as CS 
I would suggest that you look at the career centers at the colleges he is considering. See where they both recruit and place students.
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I hate to be Debbie Downer, but I have been hiring for large companies for 35+ years and NOBODY can predict the labor market, hiring trends, etc. 5 years out. Nobody.
There was a time- during our lifetime- when PhD’s in math were driving taxi cabs because it was the most lucrative work they could get. We look back and wonder “why weren’t they working as quants at hedge funds?” which is what PhD’s in math do now if they don’t want to go into academia (or can’t get a tenure track job) but neither hedge funds nor quants existed back then. There was a time when aerospace engineers were lining up for unemployment! In our lifetimes! There was a time when software engineers and CS majors couldn’t get jobs unless they were brand new grads from top schools- you were ten years out? You were first to get downsized- this was when tech discovered outsourcing and everyone wanted to save a bundle by sending their software and CS jobs to India.
I would not be picking a program or a college or a major or anything else with the confidence that I could predict the labor markets that far in advance. I know too many kids who graduated with degrees in petroleum engineering or geology degrees who were told that “the energy industry will always be hiring”. Yup, they were hiring. But there was a worldwide glut of oil, and so the demand shifted away from drilling stuff out of the earth and moved towards sustainable energy sources.
OP- I think the goal is for your son to “find himself” in college with a suite of fungible skills, rather than to assume that RPI has a magic bullet that Missouri M&T does not. Because to answer your question- yes, it’s the kid and not the college, but some colleges do a better job in certain areas than other. And some KIDS are much more “wired” to capitalize on who is hiring than others.
Since your son doesn’t seem terribly pre-professional right now, I’d work with that as a feature, not a bug.
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@blossom YES. Thank you once again for sharing your perspective. Reading your words is like taking a moment to view of the Earth from space
I agree that no one has a crystal ball for the job market, nor the educational/personal path of a 17 year old. This kid is about to embark on an incredible journey, and I’m so excited to see what unfolds.
In terms of the college type question…in trying to differentiate best fit LAC vs Tech vs University, some will work better for the undecided, less pre-professional student. Course offerings, flexibility of switching majors, advising, career services, etc all play a role. He can explore himself at Grinnell or Case Western or Purdue, but ultimately will have to pick one a year from now.
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@blossom is always right on.
What I have learned having my kid finishing up this year is that lots of kids really don’t know what engineering in their discipline is till they get to Junior year. Plus every engineering major have several subsets. Plus there is lots of cross over between engineering.
One great skill is learning to pivot. Don’t be so locked in into one sector since most engineering can be applied to different situations.
I know kids at Illinois Institute of Technology with great jobs at Microsoft and kids going to UIUC struggling to find jobs. Trust me it has more to do with what your kid does in college then purely the college itself.
Plus the one thing not discussed is there are very few, very few schools of engineering that have kids not get any jobs 6 month - 12 months out from graduation. If you want to find those kids go to Reddit… Lol…
Plus your kids first job probably won’t be their last one. Yes, jobs tend to be regional to the school but don’t have to be also. Kids to in Indeed and other sites to get jobs. It’s not just the companies that come to their school. That is just one source for company interviews.
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I agree that parents shouldn’t be pushing their kids to specialize for the sake of career opportunities that may or may not be there when their kids graduate. However, I don’t get the sense that this is the case here. OP seems to feel her son is much more interested in STEM than in non-STEM subjects. She is in a much better position to tell than any of us. She also thinks her son likes more hands-on experience, which led her to engineering or engineering related fields. Not all students are the same.There’s always a trade-off between breadth and depth. For some students, the former may be more suitable and preferrable than the latter. For some others, the opposite is true.
Between the two areas OP has identified, engineering is more specialized than CS in some significant ways. If OP is concerned about too much specialization, CS may be a better alternative, as CS skills can be applied to so many different areas. Ultimately though, no skill is permanent. Everyone has to adapt, re-learn, and reinvent, sooner or later.
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OP and her son have seen that he is significantly more excited by STEM in his education to date than non-STEM. Can’t dispute it- I don’t know her son. But as I’ve already posted- does he know he’s NOT interested in Urban Planning (which may be in the school of Arts and Sciences at a university, or may be a subset of Operations Research in a Business School, etc? Does he know what architects do (besides draw pictures of buildings) which MANY computer game/Lego kids discover that they love? Does he know what agronomists do (which might be strongest at a land grant university, coupled with food science and some pre-Vet programs?) Has he been exposed to Behavioral Economics (likely in the school of Arts and Sciences) which is a very cool and still emerging combination of Cog Sci and Econ?
If the OP’s son weighs in and declares a love for electrical engineering - hurray. But given the need for “aura”, culture and fit for this particular kid, I wouldn’t be driving him towards an engineering department/school/university right now, and finding a place where he can keep his options open while he explores might be what the doctor ordered.
Just my observation of the kids who decide “engineering or bust” and then come November of Freshman year realize “This isn’t what I thought it was”.
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@blossom @1NJParent Agree with you both… We’re working with what we know about this kid and what we don’t know about the kid. We do know that he’s good at math & science, has great spatial ability and likes hands-on/building/computer-based creating. But we don’t know that mechanical engineering or software design or robotics etc is where he’ll land, especially if provided with an array of learning and real world experiences. At the same time, it’s hard to envision him in the social sciences or foreign languages or communications. The examples @blossom listed are much closer to his current interests/skill set.
He will have to start somewhere and that’s what I’m try to clarify. Better to start Arts & sciences? Not engineering? Better to go with LAC open curriculum? Better to choose a school that’s open and stem-focused?
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No student has the opportunies to sample all these areas, and many other like them. Some students can remain as generalists and suceed, but many are still searching on campuses and in careers they either don’t like or don’t feel rewarded. Particularly in STEM, where skills are built on top of each other, waiting isn’t a luxury most students have. Having said that, I’m all for building a solid academic foundation that allows a student to be able to learn new subjects and adapt in a changing world, while specializing and pursuing depth in a subject or two.
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And if he did not start with engineering, does that close a door right there? Better to try to transfer into engineering or out of engineering? Or just pick a school that has more flexibility across the board…
Not starting in engineering does not close the door- but in some cases it WILL mean year 5 (or taking classes through the summer, which may eliminate the chance for jobs and internships) so that’s something to consider. In general, the core science pre-req’s for engineering are either the same or more difficult than their counterparts in other subjects, which means in practical terms, that at many colleges it is easier to start in engineering and then switch out, rather than starting elsewhere and then switching in.
Does this make sense? Not a closed door, but potentially more time… and possibly, more difficult.
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@blossom Yes, makes sense and good to know. The initial thread started on the premise of starting in engineering and shifting gears to something else. Maybe I should pay more attention to the number of electives available in engineering programs. (URochester looking better.) He would be able to build core reqs AND explore other areas of interest.
In terms of the big financial picture, 5 years is different from 4 and if he’s going to explore well into graduate school, we should plan for that too
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This also depends on the school. Many, many schools if your not already in engineering then good luck getting in. This is where your research will find you. Schools like Case Western are going to be easier to switch into the Purdue as an example.
If you had to choose one path the saying is… "Its easier to change out of engineering then switching into engineering "
First year curriculum is partly the same either way. Once in engineering you can explore all the non engineering you want to explore. Depending on the school you might be fighting an uphill battle
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@Knowsstuff OK great, this is helpful! I’m seeing three starting points: IF he comes out of his summer exploration favoring engineering, he should apply to engineering programs…and explore other interests in his electives. IF he comes out of his summer exploration favoring CS, he will need to figure out which program makes sense for majoring in CS. IF he comes out of his summer exploration disliking one or the other, it may be better to start A&S or undecided in a school that offers a breadth in stem.
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I tried sending a message, but my phone wasnt cooperating.
My son goes to Duke. It matched many of my son’s wants by senior year and he was very fortunate to get a scholarship there.
I believe that you mentioned you were full pay. Duke does have a merit scholarship, but its very hard to get and otherwise total cost is around 80k per year.
My kid didnt really know what he wanted to major in until he talked to a really nice Computer science professor at Appalachian State during a campus visit at end of junior year. Upon leaving, he knew he wanted computer engineering.
It may just click with your kid on what he wants to do before application season starts, or maybe he can narrow it down to two areas. Many colleges ask for more than one degree preference when applying.
FyE classes are important, but I also think that any school that you all are looking at should have good support programs that your child could tap into if they start to fall behind.
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However, Engineering has very little space for electives and exploration. Typically, for all of freshman year, it may well be just English composition and one social science (so, one required non STEM each semester).
Look at how Lafayette, Lehigh, Brown, and HarveyMudd structure their curriculum, it may be a bit different.
Also, not all engineering majors may be in the college of engineering and CS may be in COE, A&S, or even in its own school (school of computing, college of computer and information science, there are various names).
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First year MechE plan at UMD. Two engineering courses, introduction to engineering design ENES 100 and mechanics ENES 102. Could easily add another optional course first semester as this plan only shows 13 credits, my son took 17. The social science and oral communication classes could also be switched out for other interests as there are opportunities to catch up on them later on or even earn some via AP ctedit. As you can see the other classes are general classes needed for BS in almost all majors. This is consistent with other engineering majors also. The first year is more about starting to expose students to their major slowly and otherwise completing general requirements. You could easily take one year and switch out without.much harm or lost.
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I don’t know how to link threads but on the one labelled “Comp Sci Schools for Smart B- Student”, taverngirl speaks very highly of Quinnipiac and all the support systems it has for engineering.
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