@MamaBear2001 Thanks for sharing this! I’m hoping some kind of fortuitous enlightening will happen in the next six months… some kind of ray of light with pointing him to engineering, computer science, or TBD field 
Practically speaking, he now has a small library of books, a summer program or two, a college visit road trip, and math/sci/eng senior year classes to help steer the ship.
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@MYOS1634 This is exactly where I am right now… reading course programs for each college on his list. Sunday Fun-day
@MarylandJOE Thanks for the Maryland info! I’m looking for just this, trying to parse out what freshman/sophmore year will look like in terms of engineering requirements, general ed requirements/electives…
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@MMRose Excellent! Will take a look!
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Different colleges show different patterns, but in general kids at LACs get quality jobs, including kids majoring in CS or Engineering. As has been noted there may be a smaller number of recruiters at LAC career fairs, but there are also likely to be a far smaller number of students attending the career fair, so there will not be long lines to particular popular companies. The types of jobs may be different, particularly in engineering. For example, few LACs offer a mechanical engineering major, so there will be few mechanical engineering specific recruiters, and few students will work in mechanical engineering specific positions as a first job.
Grinell was mentioned as a college of interest, so I’ll use Grinell as an example. Their post grad survey at https://www.grinnell.edu/sites/default/files/docs/2020-12/2019%20Post-grad%20report%20-%20Updated%20Nov%2020.pdf shows employer, career area, and location for each reporting student. For CS majors, it looks like the employers are all over the map – literally. Very few of the reporting CS grads stayed in Iowa. Some took jobs in Silicon Valley, Chicago, NYC, Minneapolis, etc. One kid took a job in Tokyo. Accenture was the only company that employed more than 1 Grinell CS grads in the same company location (it employed 2) . Some of the other recognizable companies include Google, Microsoft, Spotify, and JPMorgan Chase. Grinell does not have an engineering major, so no engineering information is available, but they do mention that one of the Grinell CS grads is pursuing a masters in Electrical Engineering at WUSTL. Master’s in engineering is usually a more common path than 3+2 type programs in LACs.
Salary information can be unmeaningful for colleges as small as Grinell. Nevertheless, I’ve listed some CS salary from College Scorecard or different colleges. The sample size for Grinell was 47 students. As noted earlier, CS salary is well correlated with portion of students that choose to work in a small number of high cost of living errors, far more so than with engineering. There also is often a greater correlation between salary and college selectivity in CS than engineering. Fewer students from Grinell chose to work in these high cost of living areas than many of the other colleges and Grinell is not as selective as some of the listed colleges, yet Grinell still holds its own, falling near the middle of the list.
CS Major Earnings, as Reported on CollegeScorecard
Rose Hulman – $112k (RH website says $98k average accepted offer, so the CS sample is probably higher than actual)
WPI – $95k
Michigan – $94k
Grinnell – $92k
Purdue – $86k
RIT – $85k
Case Western – $72k (Case Western survey shows median of $70k, so this may be real. However, there was a bi-modal distribution with ~half earning $60k and ~half earning >$90k – presumably the $90k+ are primarily working as SW engineers in high cost of living areas like SV. If one more kid chose to work in a high cost of living area like SV and earned >$90k, the median would have jumped from $70k to $90k.)
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@Search2022 You’re rightly focusing on academic and social fits. However, on the question of LACs vs tech schools vs large public flagships, they all have their pluses and minuses. For example, one may be a better academic fit but the other a better social fit. Equally, perhap more importantly, finding the best fit isn’t sufficient these days for college admissions. A college must also view your son to be a good fit. Therefore, my recommendation is that your son apply to at least one, or a few, college(s) in each of the above category. As I explained it in your other thread, his overall chance of admissions will be enhanced due to lower admisison correlations between different types of colleges, assuming he can put together equally good applications. Once he has acceptances in hand, he can decide which one is a better fit.
There’s an additional issue with early applications. Many privates (other than a few tippy tops) offer binding ED. A few of them, like CWRU, also offer EA in addition to ED. However, their EA programs aren’t worth your son’s time, IMHO. Most publics offer EA but your son won’t know whether he’s accepted before the general RD deadline from any of them. If your son plans to apply ED, then the fit (viewed from both directions) is critical.
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@Data10 Fantastic, thank you! Even though it’s a small sample, and I wonder how many CS students graduated that year compared to how many reported their first year outcome, it is reassuring to see Grinnell graduates landed jobs with comparable salaries to those at techy schools and flagships. Thanks for clarifying the Case Western number as well.
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." However, their EA programs aren’t worth your son’s time, IMHO" .
Sorry, what does this mean? The Ed or EA from Case is the same program. One you just find out earlier… What am I missing here?
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@1NJParent Yes, that was a great piece of advice and thank you for reminding me. Right now, he has a large happy mix of LACs, techy schools, and flagships. Glad to hear the mix will be strategically to his advantage. @Data10’s last post backs up all 3 categories from the career outcomes standpoint, so I’m feeling better about keeping the mix.
Isn’t EA a form of demonstrated interest? I was thinking he would apply to as many schools as possible EA in August, just to get applications out of the way. Rice, CMU, BC, Rochester don’t have EA and could be potential ED schools if there was an advantage to applying ED AND if we were 100%.
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Unfortunately, they aren’t the same, in terms of likelihood of acceptance. Colleges that offer both types of early programs are really playing a game. They offer EA to attract more applications and accept very few students under their EA programs. Those applicants who are accepted tend to be highly sought-after by all colleges and they likely wouldn’t have applied otherwise. Most of these colleges’ early admits come from ED.
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There are a few different issues here:
- Students trying to change into engineering majors later may find that they did not take the needed sequence of prerequisites (e.g. math and physics) early to ensure on-time graduation. In contrast, those starting in engineering and switching to something else are less likely to be “behind”.
- In some colleges, engineering majors tend to be “full” in terms of department capacity, so that changing into them is difficult or requires a competitive admission process, even if the student has taken the proper prerequisite sequences. The same issue often exists in CS, whether or not it is an “engineering” major at a particular college.
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Note that civil engineering includes a subarea of transportation infrastructure design, which has considerable overlap with urban planning. Operations research may be found in math, statistics, or industrial engineering departments, depending on the college.
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In terms of showing a higher level of interest, the usual is ED > restricted EA > unrestricted EA > RD.
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No, not for the few private colleges that offer both EA and ED. They very strongly prefer you apply ED. If you apply EA, you’ll most likely be deferred and “invited” to apply ED2 (all these colleges offer ED2, BTW). If you still don’t, you’ll likely face the same fate in RD. Obviously they will accept some applicants for optics or because of their “hooks”.
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Got it. Just never experienced a qualified kid not getting into Case EA vs ED. I know the difference between ED and EA… Thx
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OP- you are going to win Parent of the Year if you can get your son to FINISH applications in August. Most people are lucky if with pretty constant nagging their kid STARTS an application before senior year begins! Your kid may be the exception- but I’d keep my expectations in check.
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@blossom Ha! The goal is to start early and finish early, but essay writing is going to be a beast. I’m hoping he will work on applications over the summer so he can focus on academics in the fall. Best laid plans, right?!
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Your son is 17 years old or so…and you are hoping he will have his career future all mapped out soon…or at least within the next two years. Please understand…that might not happen. College kids change majors all the time…and many several times before landing on the major that goes on their diploma.
You are trying to predict jobs 6 years or so in the future. There will be jobs then that don’t even exist now…and jobs that are hot now that won’t be so hot in 6 years.
Is your son as invested in deciding his full future?
My suggestion…take a break from this. Give your son some ideas, but let him start taking the lead. He might choose a college because he likes the colors of the flowers planted on the college green. As long as the school offers a variety of things on their curriculum menu, that’s fine.
Yes, nurture his interests, bur also encourage him to think out of the box too.
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I only have experience with Purdue but a couple of observations. First, Purdue is a school with a lot of water but no one is going to take him to it. They may mention there is a a Engineering career fair coming up but it will be up to him to attend and engage. Purdue has a wonderful Professional Practices office but it will be up to your son to go and speak with them, sign up and go to interviews if he is interested in cooping. There are lots of research opportunities but he will have to seek them out and contact the Professors who are doing research and apply for the positions. If he wants to be active with organizations in the school he will need to seek them out.
I suspect that it is going to be similar at most large state flagships. The opportunities are immense but they will not be bringing them to you. You must seek them out. There may be other schools that are more diligent at making sure a student is presented the opportunities they have. In some ways Engineering is singular in its opportunities for experiential learning. In my opinion merely going to class and learning the material will limit you as you seek to become an engineer.
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100 % agreement. So many opportunities just have to seek them out. I told my kids there’s opportunities for the taking…
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My roommate started out in chemical engineering and switched to nursing. Later, she went back to medical school.
A close friend switched from mechanical engineering to law. I knew quite a few other kids who switched, too. It’s very common.
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