"What I wish I had known"

Applying to College Admission Stories
141

I never post in this thread or even this room, but here is my advice that I wished I had known when I was a HS senior:

Apply to schools that meet full 100% demonstrated need without the use of loans. For me, this was Pomona College and Claremont McKenna College. I got rejected from UCB and UCLA and I would probably had a shot at Pomona College and Claremont McKenna College given my academic record.

Another thing is I didn’t apply to a financial safety. For me it was SJSU. I believe with CAL Grant and Federal Pell Grant, I would not have even needed to work or take out loans to cover my SJSU education and I would still have leftover financial aid.

If I knew Pell Grant was going to be cut, Summer Pell Grant was going to be eliminated, and there was going to be a UC fee hike, I would have applied and gone to SJSU.

Another thing was that I didn’t apply to any private schools due to cost. I found out after when it was too late that a private school may be cheaper than a public school once financial aid is factored in.

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I wish I had known that some schools allow more than three recommendations (including the counselor one) because I had a great teacher who offered to write for me, but I said “no thanks, sorry!” because the counseling office told me it wasn’t good to have two teachers from the same department.

If only, if only… he was an awesome teacher who knew me very well.

143

I hope this helps future applicants:

<ol>
<li>I wish I had known how much freshman and sophomore year grades matter. I feel that if my grades had been higher (I was far from a straight A student), I would have had a better chance of getting into Duke ED (I was deferred and got in RD). I don’t regret it because of how much I learned about myself during the application process (and because I’m attending my dream school), but for future applicants…you’ll be able to sleep better at night when you await decisions if you have great grades (given that you take a rigorous courseload). Also, my grades could very much be what kept me out of 6 schools (I was rejected from 4 and waitlisted at 2).</li>
</ol>

The next few things I’m posting I already knew, but I feel that they are worth emphasizing based on my experience.

<ol>
<li>If you have a dream school, apply there ED, even if it’s a huge reach. “You miss 100% of the shots you never take”, so go for it. If there is a prestigious school that you have a better shot at than your dream school but it’s not your first choice, DON’T APPLY ED or you WILL regret it (e.g. applying to a non-HYP Ivy if H Y or P is your first choice). I’m so glad that I didn’t shy away from applying ED to my dream school (Duke).</li>
<li>Apply to colleges EA, whether or not you choose the ED route. In the early round, I was deferred from Duke and UMich and accepted to UNC and Notre Dame. Getting into a college early is a great feeling that takes a weight off your shoulders (it was like, “worst case scenario is ND or UNC!”). I know kids who applied to one ED school and zero EA schools who didn’t get into their ED school. They had to wait until April 1st for decisions that softened the blow of their early rejection/deferral, which couldn’t have been fun. ALSO, doing early apps requires you to get your Common App done, so you won’t be writing your Common App essay during Christmas break like some of the kids who are only doing RD (that would have been me at least, I’m a procrastinator!) had to do.</li>
<li>STAND OUT. I’m not in the top 10% of the class, but I had better outcomes than some of the best students in my class, including the valedictorian. The cookie-cutter class president varsity sports type didn’t have much success this year in my graduating class. People who participated in interesting ECs (either in addition to or in lieu of sports) who had colorful personalities had better results. Tips include:
a. Although people say “it’s not what you write about; it’s how you write it”, colleges have simply read too many essays on certain topics to the point that it’s difficult to make them unique. I chose a random topic (why I love mornings) and added humor and my own flair to it. I embraced the fact that I’m a total weirdo (eating popsicles for breakfast sometimes, having very interesting thoughts in the morning, etc.) I feel like it was endearing and a breath of fresh air after thousands of essays about study abroad/community service in x country (that’s a topic that many of my classmates chose).
b. Colleges love to see passion for ECs that they want to see more of in their student body. For example, I’m in Environmental Club and the Gay-Straight Alliance, and many of the schools I got into are trying to “go green” and foster a more accepting environment for LGBT students. Many people have ECs such as athletics and student government, so involvement in other things that might not be as represented is a plus.
c. They also love to see unique academic interests. They see so many pre-med and business students. While I will be fulfilling the pre-med requirements in addition to whatever major(s) and/or minor(s) I choose, I didn’t even mention it and focused solely on my interests in Spanish Lit (AP Spanish Lit, good SAT II Spanish scores) and Sociology (I mentioned a specific sociology book I had read). Note that I’m talking about if you’re applying to the College of Arts and Sciences at a given university; if you’re applying to their business or engineering program,they obviously want to see interest in those.</li>
<li>Show colleges your personality. When there are tens of thousands of applicants, they all seem to blend together to adcoms, because so many of them look similar on paper (similar stats and ECs, safe, vanilla essay, etc.) I know that in the NPR thing about Amherst admissions adcoms loved a kid with a little joke about craving Chicken McNuggets. Random things like that are memorable. A high stats kid whose personality is shown through the application is in a much better position than a standard overachiever, simply because there are so many of those.</li>
<li>Apply to many schools. I don’t regret filling out 13 applications. In the crazy admissions frenzy this year, I noticed that many people who applied to 10-15 schools got into at least one top school, while many people who applied to 5-6 will be attending their safety (but probably would have made it to a top school had they applied to more). </li>
</ol>

I hope this helps somebody. While I had great scores, a lot of people on CC chances threads thought I wouldn’t make it to top schools because of my grades. If I had listened to them, I wouldn’t have applied to the caliber of schools that I did, which resulted in acceptances to Duke, BC Honors, Notre Dame, UNC, UMich, Emory, and WashU. Colleges’ TRULY review applications holistically (they overlooked my grades because of everything else), so don’t underestimate for a second the importance of ECs, recs, and essays, although the transcript is by and large considered the “most important factor”. I think scores are a huge factor as well. Being at or above the 75th percentile is helpful. I don’t think I would have made it to the schools I did without my scores. Just don’t forget–NO MATTER how high your stats are, the subjective portion of your application is SO important and is ultimately the difference between an acceptance and a rejection.

144

Thanks, this was very inspirational. My sophomore was ill for much of Freshman and Sophomore year. Her grades fell from straight A’s to straight B’s. Now diagnosed and successfully treated her grades are going back up again. Luckily, she tests very high and is in all of the most advanced honors/AP classes. She will probably end up in the low end of the top 25% for gpa although her prep school does not rank.

I’m sure she will take your advice and apply EA and to many, write an interesting essay, get to know her teachers well and of course… score high on the tests.

Thanks!

145

Also, if she was sick, make sure her teachers know that. They can reflect that in the recommendation. My father died in the middle of my sophomore year, and my counselor definitely put that into my recommendation. It helped out a lot. Though my grades were still good, I was falling asleep in class and things like that.

Honestly, I wish I’d researched schools more. VISITS ARE REALLY GOOD. And I wish I’d been brave enough to ask students questions. They’re really helpful–so much more so than the actual school. Also, look at the website in depth. There’s a lot of information there.

146

This is for INTERNATIONAL students:

I wouldn’t say don’t apply to many schools. From my observation, it’s a lot more difficult for international students to get into schools that would otherwise be their safety/match especially if they are asking for significant amount of aid, unless they’re from some really obscure country.

I admit that applying to a LARGE number of schools is like going through plain torture (i exaggerate, but it’s not easy, you’re going to have to pull off many many all nighters esp as the deadline nears, there may be days before which you even get a chance to catch like 4 hrs of sleep, if you want each application to be perfect), but I must emphasize the importance of applying to a large number of schools. Fee waivers are easily available, and for international students, a letter from the counselor and some tax returns are more or less enough to get fee waivers and if the exchange rate works in your favor, then please do try and get as many as possible. Believe me, little costs add up without your realization.

Another important thing I would like to stress on, if you do want to lessen the number of schools you apply to, then definitely reduce the LACs on your list. They generally have a very small student body in which case, getting in with FA is very tough. In fact, keep the number of LACs to a bare minimum, even if LACs are what you are looking for. Chances of getting into universities are much better than the decimal chances of getting into LACs (again, I speak for those asking for FA).

Why do I stress on applying to a large number of schools?
I applied to 20 schools, and got rejected from 8 of them, waitlisted at 7 and accepted at 5.
And most of the rejections came from the LACs.

Another thing, do not judge your chances at need aware schools with sub 20% acceptance rate to be better than those at the need blinds, just because the rate looks better. Once you’re asking for FA as an international, it’s a completely different ball game. The drop in figures is not pubicly released, but I was fortunate enough to come across the actual figure for Wesleyan University (which is a comparatively small university providing an LAC-like experience) and while the actual rate was sub 20%, rate for internationals on FA was 3%. Yep.
And rate for internationals on FA at other schools can go much lower than that too. So please be aware that as an international asking for FA, you have to be the best of the best in the pool to get accepted (an inference that might be gained from this is that you might have to settle for a college that is lower than what you deserve wrt your qualifications) because you are asking for significant FA.

Also, there’s another thing many aren’t aware of. Although many schools promise to meet full need, and they do, no doubt, sometimes we overlook the fact that most schools also have a loan component in their award. And if that component is high, you might as well be spending the next few years after your schooling working to pay off the loan. This is pretty okay if you’re going into a professional field and the debt isn’t huge, but it might be a problem if you are only going for a regular A.B and plan to pursue further education.

Also, visiting schools aren’t all that they are hyped up to be. I have spoken to many alums and the basic inference was that visits are less useful than talking with more alumni in your country. It might as well end up that you return from you visit (that you took in order to decide between two or three of the colleges you plan to choose between), just as confused as you were before. However, I do feel that if you have the time, and the money, or just want to relax after the process (;)), getting a “vibe” that makes you “happier” about your decision (this sometimes happens) could be helpful.

As a last note: Interviews really aren’t all that important. Out of the three schools I had jaw droppingly awesome interviews with (ranging from 2-2.5 hrs) two of them rejected me. I also had pretty good interviews (1-1.5 hrs) with most of the other colleges who waitlisted me or rejected me. One of my interviews was supposed to be for 30 mins with the dean who was visiting my country, and I ended up reaching a full 10 minutes late (oh the embarrassment!), and I still got in. Just saying that interviews really are not all important, and just relax and go with an open mind, they’re just easy conversation, just imagine that you’re talking to a favorite uncle whom you met after a very long time.

Hope this helps!

-perfectpixie (Harvard '15)

147

I attended a university in Fall 2003, but after the winter break I couldn’t return for the following semester. At that time I was not aware of the process to withdraw from classes, so I subsequently received “F”'s for the 4 classes I was registered for. I wish I would have known how important it was to withdraw.

I am wondering if it is possible for the grades to be “revoked” on the classes I did not attend. The college did receive payment for those classes. I am not asking for money back. I am only asking if there is a possibilty for the grades to go away. These 4 “F”'s are affecting my overall GPA and also look bad on a transcript.

I have attended a local college taking core classes, and now wish to transfer to a 4-year university. My overall GPA is low due ONLY to these 4 classes. Please advise if anyone knows anything I can do? Who to contact? What to ask for? Any suggestion’s?

Thanks for your help!

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I would think that a letter accompanying your application could explain your mistake. I would also write or call the college where you paid of the classes but never attended to see if they have a policy that will clear them off.

The good news is that once you start at a new college, you will also start fresh with your GPA, so even if you cannot clear those grades, they should not affect any future plans.

149

I think the absolute most important lesson I learned was the necessity of starting the process early.

I’m a full IB diploma student, and I also added a bunch to my plate for senior year. The result? I literally wrote almost ALL of my application essays over Christmas break. It was a singularly horrendous experience, especially because practically all of the schools on my list had <15% acceptance rates. I remember writing from 9 a.m. until the following 3 a.m., every single day, rinse and repeat. In the end, I felt as if all of my essays were terrible, but I’d hit the deadline.

Afterwards, I kept thinking about how terrible my essays had been (I still haven’t looked at them since submitting my applications b/c I’m afraid of how bad they were), and how I wish I had written my essays over summer break, under much more relaxed conditions. After all, the essays are literally the last of the application components over which you have complete control. By senior year, your GPA, ECs, test scores, etc. are all pretty much solidified. The essays give you one last chance to distinguish yourself.

Fortunately for me, it seems that my writing wasn’t nearly as terrible as I’d thought it was, and I achieved far better results than I could have dreamed of. However, that doesn’t change the fact that January through March was a period riddled with crushing anxiety. I almost went crazy at the end of January and I even made a list of 6 random colleges with February deadlines that I planned to apply to as safeties. Really, really, really a harrowing and stressful time, particularly because tons of IB internal assessments are due January through March.

So moral of the story? Write your essays early! Plan for a busy senior year! Don’t wait until the last minute (and certainly not until the week before the deadlines)!

150

Also, I wish I had been more of a “go-getter” as a freshman. I did not at all use the summers before my freshman and sophomore years to their full potentials. At that point in my life, I was so shy that I didn’t even like asking nice library ladies for volunteering applications, forget pursuing congressional page internships, founding clubs, etc. I just felt entirely unqualified for anything, intimidated by everything. (It’s a problem that I’m still struggling with today; I think it springs from living in my older sister’s shadow for too many years.) Realistically, though, I should have just gone for every interesting opportunity instead of shooting myself down without even trying. It doesn’t matter, after all, whether you <em>think</em> you’re qualified; it’s the employer/supervisor/coordinator’s opinion that counts.

Another thing to remember is that, while it’s great to enter high school with some sort of general focus, it’s also important not to pigeon-hole yourself. During junior high and middle school, I’d performed extremely well as a singer, consistently landing first chair in the region and even going to nationals. I’d also published articles and photos in magazines and tour guides. When I entered high school, I thought I’d already found my strengths, and I planned to pursue singing, writing, and photography whole-heartedly for the next four years.

But these things change, and what you’re good at in 8th or 9th grade is not what you’ll be good at in 11th grade. In 10th grade, I suddenly didn’t make it to All-State for choir, and then I did attend a state leadership conference as well as joined an academic competition team. Especially after what I thought was a devastating musical disaster (in retrospect, it really wasn’t), I had to re-evaluate my focus, and in junior year, I switched out choir to double-block math, put more emphasis on leadership, etc. It was a huge change for me, and although I entered high school with math as my academic weakness, I’m graduating high school with plans to major in math/statistics.

So long story short, I think it’s best to keep an open mind. Don’t be alarmed if your old strengths don’t withstand the tougher competition at the high school level. (I honestly had a way over-dramatic emotional breakdown when, as a sophomore, I didn’t make All State and was also rejected from the musical; it really wasn’t a big deal, and I shouldn’t have let it get to me.) Always, always, always challenge your comfort zone. After all, regardless of the effect on college admissions, pushing yourself makes you grow as a person, which is really the main point of everything. Sure, you might find hidden weaknesses during the process. But you will also find hidden strengths, perhaps ones that are more worth pursuing.

151

One piece of advice:

Take the highest level of math you can starting in elementary school. You don’t want to graduate high school without at least calculus if you can help it. If you’re not that kind of math student, at least take the toughest you can and excel in some other area. You have to start the process early to get to where you want to go.

Okay, a second piece of advice:

Negotiate for the best teachers, the best classes, the best school, the best extracurricular positions. I spent six months talking to everyone in the district to get my son to skip precal and take AP Cal AB in his sophormore year. He was tutoring college students in precal and they wanted him to take precal so they wouldn’t have to rock the boat. Well, he took the calculus. Change schools if the administration is not cooperative. It’s your education and if it’s inconvenient for them to support it, find someplace where they will find it convenient.

And, okay, a third: Homeschool rocks if you can deliver a rigorous curriculum and allow your child to pursue special interests. Don’t bother if you’re just going to give them a few worksheets and call it a day. I homeschooled my son most of his schooling and he got into the very top engineering colleges in the world. No, you absolutely do not need a public school diploma. Look up hslda.org for more info or your state homeschooling laws and organizations.

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As for interviews, they can make a huge difference but everything else has to be there too. My son got into some schools he had great interviews with and was rejected by two (Harvard and Princeton) where he had great interviews as well. But, he is more of a techer than an Ivy Leaguer so that makes sense. I think it was more of a fit thing than a qualifications thing because his qualifications were out of this world. Since he applied to so many and got into the ones he wanted to, it was more disappointing for the interviewers than for my son when he was not accepted. They were his backup schools, though that sounds odd.

The key is to know the school you’re a good fit for and maximize that by showing how you’re a great fit.

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That’s true, depending on the school. Even most top schools will take a student with a 2100 if everything else is amazing. It’s the whole package that counts, not just one factor, so long as you’re not too far below the bar.

Look at each school’s middle fifty percent for scores and other factors. If you’re in there and everything else is great, you have a good chance IF the fit is right.

154

There are some people out there with ridiculously impressive applications.

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^haha I completely second the above. Don’t be intimidated, though. :stuck_out_tongue: Look at their resumes, analyze them, and learn from it. That’s really what I think the CC decisions threads are best for.

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Alright, so we’re clearly the same person. But seriously, juniors, these are two of the most helpful pieces of advice on this thread (though there’s quite a few gems).

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To: Light10491
My daughter did not have a high GPA but she had high SAT scores, a great essay, and lots of extra-curriculars and community service where she was in a leadership role. She just got into Syracuse. I think that some of the better schools are now looking at the whole person (holistically). A high GPA is not necessarily your most important asset.

158

Being an Asian Male is a severe disadvantage for schools that exercise affirmative action. Don’t get your hopes up.

159

take the advice on ***** and CC with a grain of salt. i almost completely disconsidered the school i’m attending now because of some false preconceptions of the school from these websites

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Take your extracurrics seriously! At my school they kinda <em>recommend</em> people do extracurrics, but not until I became a Junior did I fully grasp how important having passionate extracurrics are.