What if I want to earn a full tuition scholarship to a med school?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>
[quote]
Just off the top of my head, if there are 12500 medical school spots in any given year, and each of the 125 medical schools has only 2 full scholarships in any given year, that means that 250/12500 or 2/100 students will get scholarships. But when you consider that only 50% of applicants are successful in any given year, that number drops to 1/100 applicants attending on full scholarship. When you add the attrition rates during college due to grades, MCAT scores, or loss of interest, what would that be? 1/300? 1/400? In comparison, your chances of winning anything at all in a Powerball lottery are 1 in 36.61.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Plus, most med school have no full tuition scholarships at all. So the odds are even worse than what you're mentioning.</p>

<p>So there you go, OP. Play Powerball. ;)</p>

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<p>Curmudgeon - According to my doctor friends, while that is the formula, in practice that is not how it's done at most med schools. Finaid goes through the formula, but once they have accepted you, they are invested - far more than at the undergrad level. So while a student may have lots of parental income, the finaid office is more than willing to accept petitions from students (which, in our experience, are short) to be considered independent and get as much finaid as possible.</p>

<p>Of course, this may not be the case and med schools that aren't well-funded. But all my husband's classmates, many of whom were under 24, got as much as they needed in loans and institutional money without having to take from parents or work.</p>

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<p>Harvard demands parent contribution. You can petition IF YOU HAVE BEEN INDEPENDENT FOR 7 YEARS. </p>

<p>Financial Need
When calculating a student's financial need, the Financial Aid Office uses a standardized analysis formula to determine the expected family contribution. Financial disclosure is made via several financial aid application documents, including the U.S. Department of Education's Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) and the College Scholarship Service's Financial Aid Profile (CSS Profile). The calculated family contribution is then subtracted from the cost of attendance for the year to arrive at the amount of financial need:</p>

<p>Cost of Attendance minus Family Contribution equals Financial Need</p>

<p>Cost of Attendance</p>

<p>The 2007-2008 financial aid calculation assumes a total cost of $60,880 for a first-year student. This includes $38,600 for tuition and $22,880 for all other fees, supplies and living expenses. This cost is recalculated annually and varies by year in school. There are no separate budgets for married students because support for dependents is part of the expected family contribution; school-administered funds are only available to meet the expenses of students.</p>

<p>Family Contribution</p>

<p>In order to be considered for institutional grants and loans, all applicants must supply parent financial information - regardless of age, dependency, marital status, tax status, or prior history of financial independence. In extreme cases, e.g. when the whereabouts of a parent is unknown, the Committee requires that the situation be documented by a third party professional: clergyman, attorney, social worker, family physician or other professional with personal knowledge of the family. Please refer to the Petition for Waiver of Non-custodial Parent Financial Information for more details.</p>

<p>*** Note: Students who anticipate that parents will not provide the full expected parent contribution must plan in advance how they will finance an education at HMS without this support. Institutional funds are not available to replace an absent expected parent contribution.**</p>

<p>Waiver of Parent Contribution</p>

<p>The HMS Financial Aid Committee recognizes that it is not always appropriate for students with a significant history of financial independence from parents to expect that a full calculated parent contribution will be forthcoming. Students who can demonstrate financial independence from both parents for a period of at least seven years may be eligible to petition the Committee to waive the parent contribution from the HMS need analysis. However, please note that a family's ability to pay is considered in this appeal. Students petitioning to waive the parent contribution should read the Waiver of Parent Contribution - Policy to determine whether they may qualify to file a Petition to Waive Parent Contribution. In order to gain a full understanding of a family's financial circumstances, parent financial information is required prior to reviewing a petition. Therefore, the Petition to Waive Parent Contribution will not be reviewed until a complete Option I financial aid application (including parent information) has been filed. 2007-08 Petitions to waive Parent Contribution will be reviewed by the Committee in May and October 2007.</p>

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<p>Federal aid is awarded according to your own assets and income, without regard to your parents'.</p>

<p>However, if schools have their own aid, they are free to consider whatever they wish. I do not know of a single school which will not consider your parents' income in this calculation, nor do I know of any schools which do not have any institutional aid. I am sure some exist; I just don't know of any.</p>

<p>My school actually offers full tuition merit scholarships to about 15% of our eventual student body. But the vast majority of these are based on demographics over which we have no control.</p>

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<p>I have seen several schools point blank say "We expect your family to contribute."</p>

<p>bdm, that is my understanding, also. And that Fed aid is in the form of loans and is capped waaaay below actual costs of attendance at most med schools, but it might get you by at some state schools if you live in your car and eat only Ramen. ;). (There may be some limited grants , but since we won't qualify, I haven't looked. Yet.;))</p>

<p>bdm, is the number on fed loans for a first year about $28,500?</p>

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<p>Unfortunately I'm not all that familiar with the finaid process, which will vary from school to school anyway. In my school's case, students only use Federal Stafford loans -- meaning the first $5000 in needs is met by a Federal loan. (Very few students will not qualify for Federal aid which, remember, does not include parental income.) After that, students at my school ignore Federal aid completely and shift to institutional aid, including loans and grants.</p>

<p>However, there is still an "Expected Family Contribution", which is still the family's responsibility. Federal loans, private loans, or (of course) family money can be used to pay this off. Most students presumably qualify for more Federal aid than the Stafford loan, and presumably whatever "extra" aid they qualify can be used here.</p>

<p>Again -- this is the policy at my one school, and again, I'm by no means an expert or even familiar with it.</p>

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<p>Case requires everyone to have a unit loan.</p>

<p>Unit Loan:
The unit loan is that amount which the student must obtain through bank loans or other sources before school funds can be allocated. The unit loan for the award year will be $26,000 ($8,500 subsidized and $17,500 unsubsidized) for first year medical students.</p>

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<p>From salliemae </p>

<p>Stafford Loan limits
Annual: $38,0001
Aggregate: $189,125
1The unsubsidized Stafford loan limit is less any subsidized loan amount. (The annual subsidized limit is $8,500.) Limits may vary by school. See your financial aid officer for more information</p>

<p>Graduate Plus loans are available with the student's good credit rating up to the full costs of attendance.</p>

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<p>Another school's procedure:</p>

<p>If you consider only the cost of living, the four years required for the Doctor of Medicine degree is a costly investment in one's future. With the additional charges for tuition and other fees, the annual cost may be beyond the financial resources of an accepted student and his or her parents. When documented financial need exists, students should apply for financial aid. </p>

<p>A frequently heard comment from both students and parents is that financial aid "forgets" the middle-income family. Washington University has addressed this matter by providing need-based scholarship support as a part of our financial aid award while most other medical schools offer only loans. Using the 2006-07 estimate for the cost of education at $56,802 for the first year of study, if the need-analysis estimates that the student and parents can contribute $26,802, the student "documents" financial need of $30,000. Once this amount is determined, we fund the first $5,000 with a Federal Stafford Loan, and the remaining need ($25,000) is funded half by scholarship and half by additional loan. Therefore, the student with $30,000 of documented need would receive a $12,500 scholarship and $17,500 in loan support. Many medical schools do not provide any scholarship funds until a significant portion of the student's need is covered by loans. </p>

<p>They do NOT pay the EFC for the family. That number is determined by FA and your folks' income and assets are looked at each year, just like UG school.</p>

<p>It's pretty clear none of these school consider a student independent for FA purposes but I sure am hoping somebody can link me up to some schools that do. ;) (I have been steady looking, and I don't think there are very many, if any. )</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Its difficult to be very picky about schools when you are looking to minimize debt, especially for medical school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Absolutely. But I would add "It is foolish to assume that the education is better at the more prestigious places"</p>

<p>Going to a famous school will help you if you want to launch a research career, or you want to apply for residency in a field that is so competitive that there a many more applicants than slots. Then the good students from the "top" schools do better than the good students from other med schools. Except for these cases, you are exactly as well off coming from a lesser known medical school as Harvard. Really, it does not matter. It is certainly not worth giving up in state tuition to go to a famous private medical school.</p>

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<p>Curm - UChicago and UCSF did for people I know personally. There were others, but I can't recall off the top of my head, and husband is not home.</p>

<p>I think you're missing my point earlier. You are giving information off of websites, and in practice, that is so often not the case. There is institutional money that is used to cover the gap after federal funds. However, that is money after federal loans and private loans. At this point, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what you are arguing. Who doesn't pay EFC for the family? The med school? Sure they do. In what form? Usually loans, occasionally grants.</p>

<p>Again, the website information doesn't remotely give the full picture. Financial aid was a yearly process that could be tweaked for the student and often was.</p>

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<p>DSP, Sorry but I can't let you pass on incorrect info. Please read the material I provided again. It is very clear. You may not be that familiar with university financial aid. I have several hundred hours researching UG aid and such things as federal student loans and EFC's that carry over and how they are calculated both by fafsa and by other forms. I'm very good at it. :) (So far I may only have 40-50 hours in on financing medical schools. Mostly on scholarships. ) Believe me , don't believe me. I don't really care. I'm not posting this for me or my family . I'm posting it for others who might not know any better. That would be a shame. </p>

<p>Unless you get a merit scholarship, you and your family will be responsible for your efc. Period. There will be no need based grants to cover that number. There may very well be loans made available to cover EFC , but that is NOT the same thing as "being independent" for FA purposes (and there is an absolute $ limit on fed loans and a requirement of creditworthiness for Grad Plus loans that some won't meet). Your folks are still filling out forms each year. And before anyone says all med schools are Fafsa only. Uh-uh. Some want non-custodial parents info just like Profile did for UG. </p>

<p>Students. Check with the schools. Don't count on this independence thing happening. Read again the bolded words on the HMS quote I put up. It should be pretty clear . *** Note: Students who anticipate that parents will not provide the full expected parent contribution must plan in advance how they will finance an education at HMS without this support. Institutional funds are [color=green]not available to replace an absent expected parent contribution.**[/color]</p>

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<p>I believe DSP's argument is that there is considerable flexibility in the medical school FA game -- flexibility which is not represented in their official policies. I'm not in a position to evaluate this.</p>

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<p>Would you suggest that students stake their medical career on that "flexibility" being applied to them , bdm? Or should they research each school's FA policies carefully, calling each school to verify any inconsistancies ? Just to be safe, I'd probably call. What about you?</p>

<p>and this what is so dangerous:</p>

<p>
[quote]
BTW - your family's income bracket doesn't matter at all for med school. You will be independent.

[/quote]
That is false. </p>

<p>I'm not saying buckets of loans might not be available, but you know- for some kids , those with no credit or bad credit, those won't be there either (above the Fed limit). It would be awful if an admittee didn't know the rules of the game.</p>

<p>Sorry if it seems I'm being a stickler but this kind of stuff gets repeated enough some start to believe it is true and that's bad.</p>

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<p>Given that I'm not in a position to evaluate the truth of DSP's argument, I have no idea what the correct response to it is.</p>

<hr>

<p>I do think the sensible thing to do is apply to medical schools based on the information available from a website. When the time comes, if you're lucky enough to get to choose between two or more schools, call them, talk things through, make sure everything is written out, and pick the best package they offer -- flexibility included.</p>

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<p>What I am saying is stuff that I have direct experience with. The med school financial aid is not like undergrad financial aid, which I also have experience with (and can attest that undergrad fits your descriptors).</p>

<p>I'm uncertain why you think my information would encourage students to "stake their medical career." That makes no sense. What I am saying is don't be freaked out that you can't yearly afford the sticker price - there is often institutional aid, etc. to help you out as a med student. I am also saying that stated policies don't always cover the reality, that in fact, despite what you may think, there are some institutions that give institutional aid to cover EFC. Institutional aid is at the discretion of the school, and they can give it to whom they choose Again, this is something with which I have direct experience. You're reading far more into my posts than what I'm saying.</p>

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<p>We'll let the readers decide, DSP. I'll trust the schools when they are as clear as the quotes I've posted.</p>

<p>Here's Pritzger's required form. <a href="http://pritzker.uchicago.edu/admissions/financialaid/forms/application_entering.pdf%5B/url%5DPlease"&gt;http://pritzker.uchicago.edu/admissions/financialaid/forms/application_entering.pdfPlease&lt;/a> take note that the parents' income information IS required, contrary to what is being said on this thread. Also please click on the FA deadlines link. <a href="http://pritzker.uchicago.edu/admissions/financialaid/deadlines.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://pritzker.uchicago.edu/admissions/financialaid/deadlines.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Here is a section of USF's FA pages:


</p>

<p>Not wanting to get redundant, but most students will NOT be considered independent by the medical schools mentioned and parents' income IS considered and is certainly NOT irrelevant. USF requires, Fafsa, Profile, and BOTH parents' tax returns.</p>

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<p>OK, Curm. So I suppose I was hallucinating (and our bank as well) when we received additional funds to make up the difference? Or that our best friend was lying when he talked about getting extra funds from his school?</p>

<p>You have utterly missed the point.</p>

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<p>I know that UCF's Dean @ their new medical school hopes to fully fund the innaugural class of med students. There have been a few articles in the Orlando Sentinel about it. I believe the first class will be 2009. I'd check the UCF site for more information. </p>

<p>zebes</p>