<p>I just want to be a practicing physician. I'm a very capable asian male student currently in high school in NJ. But, before I end up doing the wrong thing, I need to know if it's a smart idea to go to some Ivy-League/Top School (schools that I'm looking at). a) I just want to have a comfortable life as a physician (not a researcher or professor), b) I'm not looking to be freaking rich or anything (a nice house, nice car, not a mansion or anything, but mostly a good, easy lifestyle), c) I want to possibly get a full-tuition scholarship to some med school (doesn't really matter which one). What should I do? Based on your experiences, is there a course of action that would be more advisable than the typical Ivy League College to Ivy League Med School to ending-up-in-a-residency-with-some-kid-from-CheapSchoolXYZ-who-paid-a-lot-less-than-you-subsequently-making-you-feel-stupid trend? I want to do something smart and end up as a physician who's afloat, living well, and enjoying his career rather than follow the expensive road to hell. What should I do?</p>
<p>"A good, easy lifestyle." Medicine's probably not what you're looking for. The finances will come in (eventually), but the hours generally start "brutal" and improve to "bad".</p>
<p>Full tuition scholarships are very hard to come by, although they do exist for exceptional candidates. Bottom line is you need to do the same things most premeds need to do, except better. Much, much better. And they're pretty hard to begin with.</p>
<p>If your only interest in an undergraduate institution is getting you into a medical school -- if that's your only interest -- then an Ivy is probably not worth the extra money compared to a state school. Although, of course, many Ivies give excellent, excellent financial aid.</p>
<p>hm I don't think medicine is the right path for you.</p>
<p>I don't think a physician follows the mold of an "easy lifestyle" </p>
<p>Even my pediatrician/family doctor works 60+ hours a week (7am-7pm M-F) Thats not to mention being oncall every night and having to hear nagging/worried parents about a 102 Fever might lead to something catastrophic at 2 AM in the morning (my parents did that a few times when I was little).</p>
<p>If you want to be a physician and are looking for the cheapest way possible. I suggest going to your state undergrad. For med school getting an MD/PHD will save you some money at the expense of 4 more years of studying or otherwise go to your state medical school.</p>
<p>your need to accepts the fact that you could graduate from a hopkins with a 4.0, recommendations from 10 different doctors saying your a perfect canidate for medicine, have more clinical experience that most interns, and still not get a full scholarship, getting a full ride to medical school is almost unheard of.</p>
<p>I saw a couple of full rides offered by Vanderbilt on mdapplicants.com</p>
<p>At least the applicant says so.</p>
<p>They do exist. I was offered one at a school which I turned down, and my school offers them as well (but not to me). But they're very rare.</p>
<p>Time has a value of it too. Four years of your life -- including your earning power -- are worth far more than $200K. The MD/PhD is not worth it if saving money is your goal.</p>
<p>Full rides exist. But if you don't have the correct skin pigmentation, you'll need to be incredible elsewhere in your apps. Most applicants don't even get into med school, muchless get a full ride.</p>
<p>On the other hand, you should certainly chase merit money, perhaps up to full ride, for college. You are not likely to get a full tuition scholarship to medical school, so figure on state medical school and loans. But graduating from college debt free will make your indebtedness seem mild by comparison to your classmates.</p>
<p>State medical school is definitely the way to go if your state has reasonably inexpensive tuition (they vary a lot). If not, consider establishing residence in the state where you go to college.</p>
<p>Quick remark: My family's income bracket is in that void between not qualifying for financial aid and being able to fully fund my college/med school tuition. </p>
<p>Now for a little bit more about myself:</p>
<p>I'm not the type to sit back and let money roll in. I've already come to terms with the fact that I will not pursue such a career (essentially, business). When I mentioned an easy lifestyle, I said it under the impression that any career in medicine will be difficult and stressful...what I really meant is a specialty within it that can offer me what I want from a career while not killing me at the same time. In fact, I'm not even as concerned about the money. I am concerned about living as comfortably as possible with whatever income I receive (which I figure I won't be able to do if I have to pay off massive debts for expensive colleges). Naturally, I can't express anything on a forum, but I am pretty sure that medicine is the right path for me. As cliche as it sounds, I believe there's more to life than making money and being successful. How about just helping people for the sake of being a good person? Or has that value been totally eradicated from society's morals? I don't know if it's something specific to the values shared by members of my ethnicity or if it's just me, but the two things I care about most in life are learning as much as possible and then, using it to help others in a meaningful way. Besides, money is not as much of an incentive to pursue a career in medicine as it once was...Oh, and in response to other suggestions, Rutgers and UMDNJ don't particularly interest me, especially in light of the fact that I know I can do much better with admissions (at least Rutgers...I won't make assumptions about medical school admissions). Does anyone have any specific suggestions? Or is everyone here a proud student of an Ivy League/Top School?</p>
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How about just helping people for the sake of being a good person? Or has that value been totally eradicated from society's morals? I don't know if it's something specific to the values shared by members of my ethnicity or if it's just me, but the two things I care about most in life are learning as much as possible and then, using it to help others in a meaningful way.
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<p>Not a good enough rationale. I would've made a great plumber or electrician - I was pretty good in shop class, I daresay. I could've decided to help people that way - how many of us want or can live without running water and electricity? Those jobs have plenty of meaning and require constant learning, especially as building codes change and energy consumption goes up. They make good money and have good hours, too. (Ain't no plumber required to your house at 3 AM for an emergency unless you pay them big bucks, let me tell you.)</p>
<p>So find some more reasons for going into medicine, other than what you've said above and familial pressure.</p>
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Oh, and in response to other suggestions, Rutgers and UMDNJ don't particularly interest me, especially in light of the fact that I know I can do much better with admissions (at least Rutgers...I won't make assumptions about medical school admissions). Does anyone have any specific suggestions? Or is everyone here a proud student of an Ivy League/Top School?
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<p>Are you talking about undergrad or medical school? It's not clear to me.</p>
<p>If you are interested in helping people, there are a lot of opportunities in social work that won't leave you $100,000 in debt. If you are debt-adverse, do not go into medicine.</p>
<p>If the school happens to work for you -- and we have no idea if it does -- the fact that it's not as selective as your qualifications would imply isn't particularly relevant.</p>
<p>As an analogy: Sure, a hummus and pita wrap is more expensive than a piece of pizza. And yes, I can afford the wrap. But if I really like pizza, might as well save myself the money and eat the food I like better anyway.</p>
<p>Yes, Princeton is more selective than Rutgers. And maybe you can get into Princeton. But if Rutgers works for what you need, why bother with Princeton -- especially if Rutgers will help you avoid debt?</p>
<p>In other words: the fact that you could get into more-selective school B is a bad reason for turning down school A.</p>
<p>Specific suggestions: look at your state university, especially if it has an honors program. Look at private colleges that offer merit money. If you are a realistic candidate for Penn, then you would be a good bet to get some merit money for college.</p>
<p>Going MD/PhD to avoid debt would be a bad idea. The opportunity cost of the extra time in school would wipe out the savings.</p>
<p>there was a reason why i noted with getting MD/PHD that it will come at the expense of 4 more years</p>
<p>If you are so concerned with staying out of debt, go to the Rutgers Honors College and focus on getting into UMDNJ for medical school. This would minimize your debt. You could even commute to UMDNJ from your house if you live close enough to reduce room/board. Its difficult to be very picky about schools when you are looking to minimize debt, especially for medical school.</p>
<p>An MD from MNDNJ and an MD from Harvard Med are still both MDs. The Harvard grad doesn't get to put extra letters next to his or her name. To get into med school, your MCAT scores are going to be ten times more important than the undergrad you came from. Debt really sucks. And you are probably not going to get a full ride med school scholarship. So stop worrying about prestige and look at the stuff that really matters.</p>
<p>BTW - your family's income bracket doesn't matter at all for med school. You will be independent. However, grants don't exist for med school, at least not federal and state grants. Med schools basically have you file a FAFSA and help you apply for federal and private loans and supplement with institutional money (if they have it - that's really dependent on the school).</p>
<p>My husband went to community college for two years, then attended UCDavis. He went to UChicago's Pritzker Med. So no, the vast majority of med students didn't go to Ivy league schools. There's tons of different paths.</p>
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And you are probably not going to get a full ride med school scholarship.
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<p>That's definitely true, but I feel like that's an understatement. I'd be interested in running some estimates to see just how likely it would be to get a full scholarship anywhere. While it's not as bad as your chances of winning the Powerball, I still feel like they're pretty bad, especially if you look at a high schooler's standpoint.</p>
<p>Just off the top of my head, if there are 12500 medical school spots in any given year, and each of the 125 medical schools has only 2 full scholarships in any given year, that means that 250/12500 or 2/100 students will get scholarships. But when you consider that only 50% of applicants are successful in any given year, that number drops to 1/100 applicants attending on full scholarship. When you add the attrition rates during college due to grades, MCAT scores, or loss of interest, what would that be? 1/300? 1/400? In comparison, your chances of winning anything at all in a Powerball lottery are 1 in 36.61. (<a href="http://www.powerball.com/powerball/pb_prizes.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www.powerball.com/powerball/pb_prizes.asp</a>) </p>
<p>In short, at this point in the OP's life, it's absolutely ridiculous to even be thinking about attending any medical school on full scholarship. Focus on college and seeing if being a physician is really for you. Plenty of Asian males get through medical school just fine without being on full scholarship.</p>
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BTW - your family's income bracket doesn't matter at all for med school. You will be independent.
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<p>I don't think that's quite true. I don't understand the ins and outs of financial aid, but my parents' income still factored into my financial aid package. So manybe someone else can actually explain what's going on.</p>
<p>Although I have seen it said several times on this forum that you will be an independent , some schools do indeed require your parents' financial information.</p>
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Although I have seen it said several times on this forum that you will be an independent , some schools do indeed require your parents' financial information.
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<p>If you are under 22, they may ask for the information per FAFSA guidelines. But while they may require it, it makes no difference in the amount of aid you will get, because med school tuition is almost entirely paid through federal and private loans.</p>
<p>Desp, </p>
<p>That is not correct according to Case anyway. </p>
<p>The calculation of your resources is estimated with the principles recommended by the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) and the Need Access Application results; these principles in turn are in accordance with Federal Government guidelines. Two categories of resources can be expected: a contribution from your parents and a contribution from you.</p>
<p>Parents’ Contribution:
The Financial Aid Office determines what your parents should reasonably be able to contribute by using the FAFSA/Need Access Application analysis and your parents' latest federal income tax return. This determination assumes your parents have an obligation to contribute toward your education in accordance with their financial capability. It is based on national objective standards. When Need Access calculates your parental contribution, the following items are deducted: federal, state, and social security taxes, unusual medical expenses, casualty or theft losses, and an allowance for basic family expenses, such as food, clothing and shelter, which varies with the size of your family. The result is called available income.</p>
<p>Parental assets such as home equity and savings are considered apart from income. This total is reduced first by certain allowable debts, then by protective allowance that increases with the age of your parents. The result is multiplied by a conversion factor to produce what is called income supplement. This is, in effect, theoretical income. </p>
<p>Then the available income and the income supplement are combined producing an index of the family's financial strength. This total is “taxed" at a progressive rate; the higher the total, the greater the “tax bracket”. The result is then divided or adjusted if there are other children in college. </p>
<p>Changes in the determined total family contribution from one year to another generally reflect differences in family circumstances either financial or personal. This is the reason that we require a new Financial Aid Application be completed every year.
Student’s Contribution:
This is based on savings and earnings shown as resources on the application for aid. If a student has substantial savings accumulated for medical school, he or she should divide this by four years so it will be a resource for each year. This should be noted on the application as the Financial Aid Officer should be aware that the student is doing this. A student's earnings as a resource should be a reasonable estimate of what was earned. Please do not over estimate your earnings. Always use the net figure after taxes. Incoming medical students will be expected to come up with at least $1,500 as their contribution for first year.</p>