What if kids were limited to 6 applications?

Parents Forum
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<p>Insane, ridiculous…</p>

<p>We should all be thankful we live in a country where we are still free to do a few things that other people think are “insane” and “ridiculous” as long as they don’t hurt other people.</p>

<p>The question here is, should there be some nationwide rule limiting everyone to some arbitrary number of college applications? Whether or not some an individual thinks it is a waste of money, or a waste of time, or ridiculous or even insane shouldn’t matter. </p>

<p>Should we all try to get rules passed about everything others do that annoys us?</p>

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<p>I think many of these kids end up at match schools, not safety schools.</p>

<p>And they remain blissfully unaware for the rest of their lives that there was a super-reach school out there that would have accepted them- if only they had applied. Or perhaps they always wonder what would have happened if…</p>

<p>I am not implying, of course, that the reach schools are automatically more desirable (or even better) than the match schools these students end up attending.</p>

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<p>This isnt about freedom, etc. its about being smart, prudent and thinking things through. </p>

<p>If people think they need to apply to 18 schools to find the right one, guess that is what they will do.</p>

<p>But we shouldn’t all just say its a swell idea and that’t the way to go. It is not necessary to apply to more than 6-8 schools for the vast majority of students. We can talk about comparing financial aid packages. but all the money doesn’t make a school the best for a student.</p>

<p>I think a responsible thread should show all aspects of the process, and that most students do just fine with a list of schools that they can really see themselves at, with decent money.</p>

<p>Sure a few felt the need to apply to a dozen and a half schools, but for the vast majority of applicants, that number is not necesarry.</p>

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<p>I think some things are stupid but I don’t think they should be regulared, but I don’t go around suggesting insane or ridiculous as a good plan either.</p>

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<p>lol, midmo, if the opportunity arises to get rules passed about everything others do that annoys us, then I’ve got a little list (as Gilbert and Sullivan would say). Limiting the number of college apps is not high on the list.</p>

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<p><a href=“JHS:”>quote</a> </p>

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<li>Here’s something I don’t understand. Maybe someone can explain it. Everyone says, time and again, that increasing applications per kid is reducing admissions rates. Sounds right, at first blush. But if you hold the number of kids constant, and ignore wait lists, you CAN’T be reducing average admissions rates. If kids are filing more and more applications, then the colleges’ yields must be going down, driving admissions rates back up.

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<p>What’s constant is the product (applications per kid)<em>(admission rate)</em>(yield).<br>
You can quadruple the applications while halving both the admissions rate and the yield.</p>

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<p>jym–“Hypothetically, if you had had a really good college counselor who helped you with the process along the way, was knowledgeable about the process and was available for suggestions, information, guidance and support, do you think you might have had a list of a different length?”</p>

<p>Well…not to be egotistical…and the credit here goes directly to the other informed parents on CC who provided me w/extensive info on all aspects of the college app process…but I think I’ve got a pretty good handle on things. </p>

<p>I felt privileged to make a presentation recently to our HS’s guidance dept & principals about techniques the district could use to assist students more effectively in the process. Believe me, almost all my knowledge (and there were quite a few things our schools could do differently) came from CC! </p>

<p>I’m not so egotistical that I believe I can’t learn from someone – definitely. However, I just don’t see a vast sea of knowledge out there that would have changed our process w/son. And, similar to Pizzagirl – I’m pretty risk averse generally, as well as a person who likes to keep many options open in a variety of areas. I’d like my son to have those same options.</p>

<p>Moreover, I talked (on CC) w/an admissions counselor at a school to which son applied (gave him his stats). He could provide no assurance as to son’s chances (i.e. you never know, they do consider gpa, etc.). That school eventually came thru w/a full-tuition merit scholarship about 3 weeks after son submitted his app. </p>

<p>So…there’s a certain element of uncertainty in this process, particularly for kids w/disparate test/gpa figures. </p>

<p>However, I’m sure someone could have given me some strategic advice which perhaps would have allowed son to tailor his list down to 10-11. Would the cost of a counselor likely have exceeded the cost of the apps we would then not be submitting? Probably. If son had only 2-3 acceptances, would we have always wondered: what if? Probably. Would son have been vaguely irritated if we/counselor talked him out of the dream of a sunny CA school? Probably. </p>

<p>Honestly, filling out the additional apps—because son did it over the summer after his junior year and was completely done by Sept 1st---- was just not that big a deal (well, in retrospect it looks that way!). When son got his first acceptance in early Oct/late Sept he yelled: “I’m going to college!” (there was some concern, relevant to gpa!). After his 11th acceptance, he felt really good that he had choices. He considered each school carefully before he made his decision, and visited several which we could not afford to travel to, before admission.</p>

<p>It was fine, and the process worked well for us. It’s not for everyone, but it might be for some.</p>

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<p>The antidotes to a long list - good guidance department (probably more available at a private school), private counselor, narrowing list down by visiting - are all very expensive ways to approach the situation compared to filling out another supplement and paying less than $100. Limiting applications would mainly hurt the little guy, the kid who is poor but ambitious.</p>

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Who has disagreed with this idea? Not a single person on this thread. The disagreement comes with claims that it’s “insane” to apply to more than that for all students. I find it dispiriting that somebody could come on a 17-page thread and make such a statement without apparently reading the explanations others have posted (I don’t mean you, Iloveto quilt).
To the “top student” who is only applying to four schools: would you care to explain to us your strategy? Does that list of four include any schools where there is a strong chance you will be rejected?</p>

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<p>geomom-- I don’t mean to act 'all knowledgeable" but I’m having a hard time envisioning what transforming info a private counselor would have provided to us to alter our plan.</p>

<p>I recently became friendly w/a private counselor for a fairly exclusive private school. I shared some info w/her and the one thing she told me that I wouldn’t have known – there were certain colleges that (for a variety of reasons) would almost always take a few of their grads (no matter gpa). Then again, that wasn’t really relevent info for us since son did not attend her school. </p>

<p>Hunt–I’m crossing my fingers for rocket6louise and her limited # of apps!!!</p>

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<p>Well, she may be, for example, a very high-stats kid who lives in Virginia. I can imagine such a person with only four applications.</p>

<p>(I just remembered, after I posted this, that I was a high-stats kid who lived in Virginia, and who only submitted four applications! Of course, that was 30 years ago, but the strategy could still be reasonable for some Virginians.)</p>

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<p>Jolynne, one must assume you had some strategy in mind when you directed your kiddo. No one is disparaging what you did. But “crossing your fingers” for other posters that aren’t taking your tactic is abit in left field and backed up my much data that supports that a vast majority of kids do just fine with a reasonable and well thought out application strategy that includes a handful (or two) or schools.</p>

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<p>soozie: I am sure your professional expertise will be appreciated by many who read this, and I take your point.</p>

<p>However, I don’t think your awesomely talented D’s make a very good point of comparison. And I meant that only as compliment and not a snide put-down.</p>

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<p>momofthreeboys— lol, well, calling a large number of apps “insane” and “crazy” might be seen as disparaging in some quarters – but it doesn’t really bother me. :-)</p>

<p>If my best wishes for rocket6louise’s success (expressed by ‘crossing my fingers’) is deemed ‘in left field’…so be it. :slight_smile: I’m still a big believer in keeping options open & $50 here or there doesn’t seem a big price to pay, in my book. But then again, that’s just my book!</p>

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<p>If every college has EA then it makes sense to restrict to 4 apps in the first round. If students get in at least 3 colleges during this first round then they are not allowed to apply during the RD round. If they are all rejected then they are allowed to apply to 5 colleges during the RD round. If they are accepeted to only one during the EA round then they are allowed to 3 more… This will reduce a lot of work for colleges and students.</p>

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<p>^^^ yeah, but what if the students WANT to do the extra work to have more options? I’m fine w/kids & parents making that choice on their own, w/out someone else deciding they’ll protect me from inordinate expenditures of my own efforts. And, not really concerned about the work on colleges, when they are asking me to pay $165k over 4 yrs. </p>

<p>Okay, I need to stop posting, now, LOL! :-)</p>

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<p>In that case the students must forfeit the 3 acceptances. Your option limits other students’ options.</p>

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<p>Wants and needs are different, this is where parents and counselors can come into play. Kids might “want” a whole bunch of acceptances or a whole bunch of options, but parents and counselors can help them navigate to refine the wants and needs dependent on the student’s objectives. In watching two of mine go through the process of starting as a junior with this long list covering multiple states to refining down to the ones ultimately applied has been an interesting process to observe. The process encompassed some self realization on their part and included excellent financial lessons.</p>

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<p>siserune: Thanks, I think you are right.</p>

<p>QuantMech: I’m not so certain what Philadelphia has to do with it, but I just don’t see kids not getting into appropriate colleges unless they took that risk deliberately. </p>

<p>The only “andison” scenario among my kids’ cohort was a girl who applied to only two colleges, both big reaches. It was a weird situation. She had excellent grades, and good, but far from perfect test scores. She and her parents were all completely clueless, and she was obsessed with the “fit” of these two schools. Her GC and her friends begged her to apply to one or two more places, including a safety, but she refused to consider that she might have to. (Truth be told, she was a pretty pedestrian student, and it would have been surprising if she had been admitted to either college.) When she applied again the next year, she included a number of fine colleges a couple of steps down the prestige ladder, and she has been happily attending one of them. </p>

<p>It is fairly common at the big magnet public school for top kids to adopt a strategy of applying to four or five Ivies and a public safety. Sometimes they get into one of the Ivies; sometimes they don’t. But the approach is premised on the notions that (a) if that is how things shake out, they will be perfectly content to go to the honors program at the public university, where they know lots of people and know how to work the ropes to get good opportunities, and (b) the cost advantage of the public (often free for them, or close to it) is such that only a really extraordinary alternative would be worth the additional expense. These are kids for whom Brandeis, say, or NYU would be safeties, but they don’t see the value in that vs. Pitt Honors or Schreyer on a merit scholarship. In at least a couple of cases, they have wound up choosing the Pitt option despite an Ivy acceptance, when the cost differential was too great. Now, if more of them applied to Dartmouth (hardly any apply to Dartmouth – it looks like a dreaded rural LAC to them), a few would get in and some of them would go there. So what? There’s no big tragedy in the current situation.</p>

<p>The other thing I don’t see often, by the way, is singleton acceptances for kids who apply to a dozen or more colleges. Sure, there’s a random element to elite college admissions, but it’s less than folklore would have it. The vast, vast majority of kids I see (putting to one side recruited athletes) have very consistent admissions results: they get in almost everywhere, or they get in almost everywhere below a certain selectivity level, or (same thing, really), they only get into their safety. It’s really rare for a kid to apply to six Ivies and only get into Harvard or Princeton (much less rare for her to only get into Penn or Cornell). I don’t blame a qualified kid for applying to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford, but in my observed experience a kid who applies to all four has only a very slightly greater chance of admission to one of them than a kid who applies to his one or two favorites among them. The most common result is rejection (or waitlisting) from all of them, but the next most common result is getting accepted at three or four of the four.</p>

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<p>mythmom, I should not have given my own kids as examples. I did mostly because there was some talk of kids who apply to highly selective colleges needing a large number of apps to land a hit and I was just saying that you can be a high achiever and have a well thought out list of 8 and end up with options in the end.</p>

<p>But let me say this…I work with a WIDE range of applicants from high achievers down to kids with VERY LOW (and I mean low) stats. I just haven’t met an applicant who I have felt needed more than 12 schools (I never limit anyone but only advise). I have not had a student end up with NO school to attend. </p>

<p>And I think there are situations where the applicant has TOO FEW as well. I did mention that my nephew got in nowhere last spring. He had 6 colleges, way too few for the specialized degree programs he was seeking (involved auditioning), no safeties, average student as well. </p>

<p>Just like I believe it is not necessary for hardly anyone to have upwards of 15-20 schools, I also feel that too few schools only works for very specific situations. For the majority, 6 and under would not work. Kinda the same idea but for different reasons. </p>

<p>There are always exceptional circumstances. I just maintain that for most circumstances I can think of or know of, a range of 8-12 schools should do it.</p>