<p>Geez, some people are being really vicious here. I don't think Amyzintha is considering "lying" or acting unethically. (S)he is just trying to figure out how to represent, tangibly on paper, something that is intangible. There is no definition of "race." Or, to put it another way, there are many, many definitions. Race can be the color of your skin, but it can also be your culture, your family, your values, etc., etc. Everyone is posting saying "This is how race is defined, use MY definition in making your decision." But because race does not exist biologically or gentically, only culturally, Amyzintha must make that decision herself.
If you attempt to define "African American" as "person with dark skin," that definition fails a test of logic. It is all realitive; skin color is a gradient from very light to very dark. There is no line to draw that one person is one race and another person is another race, because there is no biological basis for the concept of race.
With that said, I do think it is very probable that the way most colleges interpret the race designation on paper is in the skin color sense. That's why in my first post I said Amyzintha should check white if she checks anything at all. But since no concrete definition exists, she is under no ethical or legal obligation to use their defintion.</p>
<p>I am of Mexican descent (mom is 1/4 Mexican) and am proud of it. However, I checked the "white" box, just like I should have.</p>
<p>While you're at it, why not add that you're a legacy or from Montanta Oh, yeah, those fact are easily verified. </p>
<p>We all understand what the question is asking and why. To claim, "it's their fault for not being more specific," or otherwise is just making excuses for conduct you know to be wrong. (Rule of thumb: if you're worried about getting caught - - "how do they know?" or "can they they out?" - - then you're up to no good.)</p>
<p>If you want to lie, go ahead. People lie and cheat every day to gain a variery of (unfair) advantages. Some liars/cheaters are never caught; other are caught and must suffer the consequences.</p>
<p>First of all, I was under the impression that Amyzintha was NOT sure what the question was asking--that was why she started this thread to begin with!
Claiming to be a legacy or from a certain state is entirely different. That's--no pun intended--"black and white": Either your Mom went to X College or she didn't; either you're a resident of Montana or you're not. But the very fact that Amyzintha wasn't sure how to answer the question, and that several other posters disagreed, is proof that there is NOT consensus on a definition of race. It is not "the college's fault for not being more specific"; it's nobody's fault because how you view race is a personal and cultural choice. In Brazil, for example, the more money one has the "whiter" they become. It's not just slang; the race of Brazilians literally changes depending on their financial situation. The majority view here may be that race is based entirely on concentration of melanin in the skin, but it is only a majority and not a consensus.</p>
<p>But amyzintha was BORN in Africa. Skin colour is completely irrelavent. But if my parents are Indian, and I was born in the US... I am Indian not american in terms of race. Thats all..</p>
<p>Its genotype and not the phenotype thats needed</p>
<p>These are the official US Government definitions for data collection purposes. They were issued by the Office of Management and Budget first in 1977 and revised in 1997:</p>
<ol>
<li>Categories and Definitions</li>
</ol>
<p>The minimum categories for data on race and ethnicity for Federal statistics, program administrative reporting, and civil rights compliance reporting are defined as follows:</p>
<p>-- American Indian or Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.</p>
<p>-- Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.</p>
<p>-- Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American."</p>
<p>-- Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, "Spanish origin," can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino."</p>
<p>-- Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.</p>
<p>-- White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. </p>
<p>These are the definitions that colleges generally use when collecting racial/ethnic data since it is being done, in part, for reporting purposes to the US Government.</p>
<p>Why do you have to have tribal affiliation to be consider a Native American? That's SOOOO stereotypical... THat REALLY ****es me off. My dad's quite a bit indian, but he has blonde hair and blue eyes, and doesn't have too many indian facial features. I, however, have a square face, deep-set eyes, high-cheakbones, dark brown hair, and dark green eyes. Coming from South Dakota where 99% of people are of pure northern european descent, I stick out like a sore thumb. Surprisingly, I love diverse people as far as descent goes, but i've never seen a real black or asian person before... Seriously... We have some mexicans coming into town, but that's about it. Everyone here eats "germanic/british/nordic food," in fact, I've never even eaten asian food before. Anyway, things here really suck. I love meeting new people of different cultures so much that I'm in 2 foreign language classes and plan to study abroad in college.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why do you have to have tribal affiliation to be consider a Native American?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think you answered your own question when you stated:</p>
<p>
[quote]
My dad's quite a bit indian
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not sure what quite a bit indian means in your situation but every student who has a bit indian would be applying for status as a native american. (My great grandmother was a full blooded Cherokee indian. (That would make my daughter 1/16th native american). She has never lived on the reservation one day in her life and is undocumented. Should she be checking off the native american box? IMHO absolutely not.</p>
<p>i actually disagree with some. you fall into the african american bracket, but i would also specify that you are a south african. you have that option as country of origin on the applciations . it would not be lying becasue you are a african american</p>
<p>So the Census defines African American as "A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa." Okay..what kind of origins? That doesn't clarify things any. It's completely futile to try to come up with one "right" definition of race so stop trying! Everyone has to define it themselves.</p>
<p>itz a very tough question, and in the ideal world it shouldn't matter, but for college apps put who youthink you are and explain later. What do you consider yourself?</p>
<p>Gloaming, Harvard:</p>
<p>You obviously know nothing about the bad old days and why the Federal government is into counting by race and ethnicity, and how and why the definitions were chosen, in federally assisted programs like universities. Please go to college and take some courses in US History, Southern History, Western History,and African-American History. Pay attention in class.</p>
<p>I'd bet that when applying to college is the only time people like the OP start wondering what their race is. I highly doubt that the OP's family hestiated when marking "white" on their census information, driver's license information, secondary school enrollment information, etc. </p>
<p>I doubt that the OP and their family is joining African American organizations, reading magazines geared to African Americans, etc. </p>
<p>It's only when being a URM might be a tip factor for an elite college that suddenly people like the OP start stretching to find a way of identifying themselves in a way that they never before had any interest in.</p>
<p>If the OP were really a URM, s/he wouldn't have to ask a board of anonymous strangers this kind of question.</p>
<p>"You obviously know nothing about the bad old days and why the Federal government is into counting by race and ethnicity, and how and why the definitions were chosen, in federally assisted programs like universities. Please go to college and take some courses in US History, Southern History, Western History,and African-American History. Pay attention in class."</p>
<p>Wow. It's quite humorous that my favorite and best subject is U.S. history. Unless those "guidelines" were written in 1630 when the Mayflower came over, I still think it's absolutely ridiculous that you have to be (according to our government) part of a tribe in order to be considered Native American. Ok, um, maybe I should write that you have to be from "the hood" to be considered black. And, for your information, I always score 97% or higher on all of my exams. And on the SAT II U.S. History I got an 800... Hmmm... I must not study hard and pay attention in class.</p>
<p>Ahhhh, well said, Northstarmom....took the words right out of my mouth.</p>
<p>I agree with you gloaming and Harvard2011, but let me explain and make a few things clear.... </p>
<p>I am neither white nor black, but it's just that this idea crossed my mind when filling out my college application and thought it was an interesting thought. ( I actually found it amusing, because if you really think about it, applications in general that asks for race need to be seriously revised to make it more specific ...or don't ask at all). I am NOT going to lie on ANY part of my application, and I am CERTAINLY NOT going to put African American under the ethnicity section even if I was white and was born in AFrica and was raised there.. BECAUSE I have a strong belief that colleges specifically want to know color, because they don't want to appear ignorant and ask for the color of one's skin. Next, I want to address to Northstarmom. I find your statement to be VERY offensive, because who are you to make such assumptions? To me personally, you sound like you're accusing me of not reading magazines geared to African Americans because you think that I am white. I think there are plenty of "whites" and those of other ethnicity that do read magazines geared to African Americans and join AFrican American organizations simply because they support it. A person doesn't have to look like another person just to do something.. Secondly, I find it interesting how insightful you are about college applications, unless of course you are indeed an admission officer of a certain school. College admission officers are humans too and I think they also will find such situation interesting... no one can say that they will reject a person because that person is lying... THAT person probably JUST didn't know.. The way it's worded on applications looks awfully like race is determined geographically.. Everyone has a different interpretation.. And of course applicants will ponder about such questions NOT because they want to lie, but because they want their applications to be in favor of them... Some people put college applications seriously BECAUSE it's a serious process.. Anyway, this is truly going to be an ongoing argument, so it's best to just drop it now. For those who would like to know, I am not checking anything for the ethnicity section. Why would I want to categorize myself? Maybe one day there will be a box called Homo sapien. lol...</p>
<p>
[quote]
The way it's worded on applications looks awfully like race is determined geographically
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Even if checking the box was based on geographics (which it is not) rather than race (which it is) were a factor the tip would go to african americans whose roots are in the u.s. before going to children of recent immigrants from africa or the carribean.</p>
<p>Although a number of people have posted who do have extensive knowlege of the admissions process :</p>
<p>Northstarmom is a Harvard alum and has spent decades being an alumni interviewer in addition to being a professor, mentor and putting together many diveristy initiates in her professional life (so yes she does know what she is talking about)</p>
<p>a second poster who is an officer at a major public university posted their opinion (which was consistent with northstar moms)</p>
<p>a third poster who is Assistant Director/Complaint Investigator, Equity and Diversity Resource Center at yet another major public university (who gave the same definition as Northstarmom)</p>
<p>people turn a blind eye and still beleive what they want to believe. At the end of the day there is no right way to do something that you know is wrong.</p>
<p>"-- Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American.""
Well, you could argue that since being born and raised in a black culture counts as having origins in black racial groups because that is where you are from. Notice how the question is NOT "what color is your skin?"</p>
<p>My interpretation of those types of questions is simply to find out which students offer more diversity. Being from S. Africa does make her diverse... Without a doubt, she would enrich the student body culturally. I think that point should be acknowledged. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I think it was a good idea that she left that section blank. Many people still look at the question with the traditional 1960s mindset, and you never know who's going to look at the application. You don't **** off the adcom.</p>
<p>I've never heard anyone say that they thought that the question had anything to do with geographical location...</p>
<p>Also, if this is the first time someone has thought about this question, it might be an indication that there wasn't much to think about to begin with. </p>
<p>The OP never said they were from South Africa... I think it's interesting that people assume that, although they could very well be correct.</p>
<p>Anyway I think this would be a great essay topic...</p>