What is MIT's view on self studying and taking hard math classes earlier on?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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<p>I am just wondering what is MIT's view on self studying?
I self studying a couple subjects (Algebra 1 before 8th grade, then Precalc Honors before 10th grade, then Chem Honors before 11th)
So i didn't actually get a lot of the easily Honors class credits, and I am running out of Math and Science classes to take at my school.
I'll be taking a couple classes at Community College next year to continue Math and probably Physics (those classes are harder than any other subjects at that Community college, the Physics class itself is from 6 pm to 11 pm on a school night).</p>

<p>Does MIT adcom recognize the difference between someone that took calc bc their sophomore year and someone that took calc bc their senior year?</p>

<p>oh and does qualifying for AIME since 8th grade help? I know that it's not even close to USAMO, but not that many people qualified since 8th grade.</p>

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<p>I'll be curious to hear comments about this too.</p>

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<p>MIT will compare you to other applicants from your HS. If many like you have taken Calc BC early, you won't really stand out. </p>

<p>MIT specifically asks about the AMC and AIME scores on their application and recognizes the value of qualifying for the AIME. If you have qualified every year for the past 4 years and achieved a good score (7 or higher) that will be viewed very favorably. If you only got 1 or 2 every time that won't really help. </p>

<p>MIT is not necessarily looking for students who have taken the greatest number of AP or CC classes in math or science. Quality of work is much more important than quantity. They want to see some evidence of creativity where you applied your skills to some purpose. They do like people who participate in competitions or reseach projects and are strong team players. </p>

<p>They very much like students who have had to overcome adversity, who showed resilience and achieved some goal after multiple attempts. If you can relate your own experiences coming from China in that context your application will be much more impressive than an application from a student with perfect scores but who never attempted anything particularly difficult. MIT's philosophy is that if you haven't failed at anything you just haven't tried hard enough!</p>

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<p>Two years ago when my son was accepted to MIT, there were 13 students from his class accepted. Two of them had completed AP Calc BC by ninth grade. At least six of the others never took BC. There were probably four high AMC scorers in the group who qualified for AIME; most of the 13 did not take the AMC. (And if you qualified to take the AIME at all, you're showing ability in mathematics, even if you "only" earn a score of 1 or 2.)</p>

<p>These 13 students all had the same opportunities to take the same advanced classes (in some cases four years of math beyond BC, or two years of physics beyond Phys C); some chose to take advantage of those opportunities, some took other paths. They were all admitted, though, so it clearly was not a requirement to have taken highly-advanced math or qualified for AIME in order to gain admission, even when students from the same school did.</p>

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<p>My school's students are very smart (2nd in the Nation for AMC and first in California this year and First on the Western Mandelbrot) :
750+ people took the AMC
57 qualified for AIME
and 5 got into USAMO (there is at least one person that got into USAMO since 8th grade from each grade)
and we got people into MOP for a couple years in a row, just not this year. A freshmen was off of red MOP by 1 point
One person was at black MOP in the first week last year, then got moved to blue MOP
I, on the other hand never made USAMO. Even if I make it my senior year, it won't be early enough for college admission. However, I am going to keep working on it since it's one of my personal goals to achieve even though i only got one more chance!
Well ,my school ,especially my graduating class is SUPER smart, and everyone is very competitive i guess. (1 took calc BC freshmen year, 8 ( me included ) took it sophomore year, and about 25-30% takes either calc ab or bc junior year, the rest either takes calc senior year or never get there in high school, about 70% of all calc bc students gets 5 on the AP test)
Only two people got into MIT from my school this year, and only 2 last year. I won't have the national awards that they had. (some smaller private school near by gets 8-12 a year, they not only have more classes but also better teachers. we had plenty of "good" teacher leaving us because they get paid better else where. My Chemistry AP teacher for example don't even have a bachelors nor masters in Chemistry, and there is mistakes on every tests she gives. We would be able to achieve so much more with better teachers).</p>

<p>And as of taking outside classes, since i only live with one of my parent who works till pretty late, I couldn't take the classes this year since there was no way i could get there.(hopefully i can get a car next year) so i took AP stats instead. I guess most colleges would count AP stats as one of the easier APs, but on the contrary i had really hard teacher, who wrote the very first AP stats test, and out of everyone that and a A and a 5 on the Calc BC, only 3 had an A in that class. It's ironic that the AP class that most people think is easy was actually the hardest math classes I have taken.</p>

<p>4 on the AIME is pretty low huh? i keep making stupid mistakes(such as counting ends and not counting ends >.<), must do more practice. Problem solving is really fun since it makes me look at situations differently.</p>

<p>three more serious questions
does placing in local math competition at more competitive areas(such as the bay area) mean a bit more than placing in local math competitions at places where math is less competitive?</p>

<p>What does MIT adcom think of the FIRST robotics competition? I will be co-president next year, spending 10+ hours a week and lots of stress to take care of everything. We also have to write our own grants and fundraising about $18,000- $20,000 for the competition. Is that something that would make me stand out?
Our team seeded 4th at the Silicon Valley Regional this year, and seeded 1st at the Lone Star Regional. GO 846!!!</p>

<p>Does having an art portfolio that is good enough for art schools mean anything to MIT even though I might not major in any kind of design/architecture ? </p>

<p>My rant ends there for now =)</p>

<p>Thank you for all your feedbacks! I really appreciate it and getting a better perspective!</p>

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<p>I guarantee that significant FIRST Robotics participation is a definite plus. Doesn't mean that everyone who participates on a serious FIRST team is admitted, but FIRST is for sure a meaningful EC!</p>

<p>And I know several students whose art and photography portfolios were given a serious look: yes, it's a positive if you have such a portfolio or online gallery.</p>

<p>You have a lot going for you: put together a good application with well thought out essays, do well in challenging courses, get some great recommendations, and hope for the best. (And 4 isn't "pretty low" on the AIME, you're just warped by the attitude and approach in our area. And yes, I live in your school district and know all about what it's like. :) )</p>

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<p>A friend of mine from Harker Robotics (class of 2008, their robotics president next year) says she knows you! =D
it's comforting to know someone from the same area !
I only wish public schools have better teachers and more classes. My school doesn't even have Physics C.</p>

<p>I think my humanties rec will be good but average
but my math rec should be great cuz my math teacher knows that i work hard and i am the only non senior that got the A in his class. and since he is 80 years old, lots of experience and he normally only teaches de anza classes, so he would have plenty of time to write mine.
I am also getting one from our robotics coach
I am debating on the 4th one whether to get it from math club advisor, or art teacher
math club advisor would be more math/academic stuff. but art teacher offered to write one for me, and that might be able to show my creative side and give me something different from the other applicants</p>

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<p>One extra rec is fine, if it shows some new side of you that would not otherwise be highlighted in the rest of your app. If you think robotics is not going to be covered in the rest of your app, have the coach write one, but consider that if there isn't really anything new the coach could add other than, "rainynightstarz was such a great member of this accomplished team..." it might be at least as good to ask the art teacher instead for your supplemental (third) rec. Generally when you start talking about a <em>fourth</em> rec, it had darned well better be a very different one -- in your case above, I would <em>not</em> recommend a 4th from a math club advisor. If you truly feel you need to add a 4th, consider the art teacher, but only if art is a significant part of who you are and what you do with your time and energies. When they say "two recs" they actually mean two. Not "how many can you give us before we wonder if you understand the meaning of 'two'." It will not handicap you in ANY way to "only" provide the required two: most people stop there. The supplemental (third) is to show a side of you that doesn't come out otherwise in your app; if this is art, and the art teacher will have insightful and meaningful things to say, that might be a good choice. You could write about FIRST somewhere in your app and cover that ground fairly well.</p>

<p>(If your friend is the prez of 1072, she <em>does</em> know me. And she for sure knows my sons. :) )</p>

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<p>yup thats the one! We are the same height! she cubes a lot faster than me. we kept getting same scores on AIME as well, almost twins except she is way smarter. we often joke about our MIT dreams together =P</p>

<p>I think the robotics advisor would be able to talk about parts of my character/personality that the other teachers wouldn't see in classrooms.</p>

<p>Art teacher would just be something totally different from the normal good o' research or summer program professors</p>

<p>all the past robotics presidents from my school that got into MIT/Caltech(basically those who applied there got into one or the other or both), had 4 recs total but both of their 2 supp. were math/sci related.</p>

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<p>Yeah, they definitely compare you to other people in your school. I took BC Calc sophmore year with my twin brother, we were the third and fourth people to ever do that in our high school's history (the first was my older brother). I've never heard of half of the stuff you guys are talking about, I took 9 AP classes (only 10 are offered at my school) got like eight 5's, and besides that I only did sports as EC's. I didn't even ever go to the science fair willingly, I had to be forced into it junior year and my project sucked.</p>

<p>Basically they definitely compare you to people in your school. If you live in the middle of nowhere they're not going to expect you to make it out to a CC to take courses, or to find a research position to take in the summer, or to have ever heard of AIME.</p>

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<p>well, did you get in?</p>

<p>my school offered i think 14 AP total
but 4 of them are languages so its impossible for anyone to take them all
1 is music theory , kinda random
and calc ab and bc can really count as one (so thats really like 9 APs)
and since i am an immigrant, though not that new to US, but would struggle too much in humanities AP classes, I'll only be taking all the highest math and science at my school, and some CC classes
AP classes at my school are super hard, why? because everyone is so smart, but only few can get A's in the class.</p>

<p>AIME is actually really big... like about 100,000 people take the AMC every year
about 9,000 qualifies
and top 500 (used to be 250) of the whole nation gets to get into USAMO</p>

<p>after looking at the AMC website
about only 100 people would have qualified for AIME since 8th grade my graduation year, which even less of them would be females
and a 4 on the AIME would give me at least top 150 in my graduation class of females in the country
I hope that would help my chances
I just really wish I can make USAMO my senior year, it's my last chance.</p>

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<p>Don't stress too much about the USAMO. Making the AIME every year is an achievement by itself. My D just got in this year to MIT and she only qualified for the AIME twice never the USAMO. Another student was semi-finalist at both the Intel and Siemens competitions and received several other awards but was rejected. Competitions only take you so far and unless you are among the top finalists, you really don't have a hook. </p>

<p>Let me suggest a few pointers:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Make sure you present yourself differently from the other applicants at your school, because you will be compared to them at the end of the application review process. </p></li>
<li><p>Show some passion for something even if it is not in science or engineering. If art is your thing, make sure you explain why you are passionate about it. My D sent a portfolio of slides although she never had her work exhibited anywhere. It just helped show her dedication. She also sent abstracts from her research work in a medical laboratory and the results were getting published. (She wants to go to med school). </p></li>
<li><p>Remember that MIT has its own application for good reasons. If it could have used the Common App, it would have saved them a lot of time and money. MIT is not your typical tech school. They ask you if you have ever created something on your own. MIT doesn't want drones that can just regurgitate textbook material and solve well defined problems, they want students that can indentify new problems that nobody has even thought of. You don't have to have filed for a patent to show you did something unique. Maybe what you created was not not even in science. You have to show you can think outside of the box. Your teacher recs should highlight that part of your profile. If they just state you were a top student they won't help much, because MIT can see that from your transcript. </p></li>
<li><p>MIT is very concerned that students should be good team players. Although the workload is very intense, the atmosphere is MIT is not at all cutthroat. MIT does not rank, has no latin honors and does not even grade most of the first year. If you are a loner you probably won't fit in and MIT will definitely not want you. No single individual can solve all the problem sets on their own. Most of the problems require teamwork. Demonstrate you are a team player. You will be most definitely asked about that in the interview and it should also show through the teacher recs.</p></li>
<li><p>Show you can manage stress. Everybody is at the top of their class coming in, getting 100% on every test. The students never needed any assistance and mostly tutored others. Now you are at MIT and suddenly you get 30% on your first chemistry exam. You get a p-set and can't even answer the first question. MIT wants to know you are not going to freak out. The application essay is mostly about how you manage problems. MIT will be worried if you claim you have never faced a serious challenge, because you certainly will after being admitted. </p></li>
<li><p>There are fewer female than males applicants to MIT. This is good in one way as MIT seeks out women interested in the sciences. On the other hand, the female pool is more self-selecting, i.e. few women apply who are not qualified and serious about going to MIT. MIT does not admit by major, but many of the female applicants go into the life sciences and chemistry, and fewer into math or engineering. MIT wants to shape a diverse student body and does not want the math department all male and the biology department all female. Being very strong in math can set you apart from many of the other female applicants. Make a point of the fact you like the challenge. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>It is pretty obvious you have the academic qualifications to be admitted and succeed at MIT. Just reflect on why MIT should admit YOU as compared to ten other equally qualified applicants. If you can come up with a compelling story to answer that question you should have a greater than 50/50 chance of being accepted.</p>

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<p>thank you! thats very well explained.
I will submit an art portfolio ( my art teacher was begging to me apply to art colleges to see what I can get into, so i guess my work is not bad. Even though my school kept getting # 1 for various math contests in the nation, our visual arts department get over $1,000,000 in scholarship from the art students and the music orchestra gets lots of awards too!)
I can't think of anything I've created , but i might thought of something I've done later on.
I think being in a robotics team covers a lot of the "team work " thing</p>

<p>and the whole stress thing, would it be bad to write about scoring 46% on a stats tests (class average was 60%) and then after much much more studying , getting 87 (highest in class, class average was 68% and everyone in is either got a 5 for calc bc or will have... it's that hard) then a 107 (highest score in class and tied with last year's record) after that.
to show how I've came back stronger than ever?</p>

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<p>What MIT's view on self-studying and taking hard math classes early on isn't very important. What is important is what your view is. If you are interested in a course, and you think that's the best option, take it. If you are striving to make the USAMO, study hard. Do your best at what you want, but don't play by MIT's rules because MIT probably wants people who play by their own rules.</p>

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<p>In regards to overcoming challenges you may also want to bring up stories about the challenges moving to the US from China in middle school. Did you speak English before you moved? How did you handle being thrown into a completely new environment? Were you able to make friends quickly? These are experiences that may be quite relevant in evaluating how you will adjust in a new environment such as MIT. On the creative side, it could just be that you approached an art or engineering project from a different perspective and got unexpected results. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Do your best at what you want, but don't play by MIT's rules because MIT probably wants people who play by their own rules.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Be careful about that type of advice. MIT clearly wants individuals not carbon copies of some "ideal applicant". They want to see some real passion not some standardized curriculum loaded with APs and a list of manufactured ECs to please the adcoms. On the other hand, they are very concerned about "the fit" between MIT and the student. Don't disregard what they ask for just to stand out. If they believe you don't match what they look for, it does not matter how unique you are. They won't take you. Some schools stress leadership, others academic, athletic or community service achievements. MIT stresses creativity and resilience: these qualities should show through in your application. Many times MIT will pass on the student with the highest GPA or highest test scores in a class for the one with the greatest potential creative talent or the one who finally succeeded at something special after all types of challenges. </p>

<p>MIT is a meritocracy but not an honor society: you get accepted for what MIT thinks you can contribute in the future, not as a reward for what you have done in the past.</p>