What is so bad about "Community Colleges" or "State Colleges"...?

College Search & Selection
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<p><<the bottom="" line="" with="" community="" college="" is="" that="" if="" you="" have="" a="" strong="" academic="" record="" and="" are="" very="" focused,="" it="" will="" not="" be="" for="" you.="">>
I have a friend who would disagree with that. He was a published author and an exceptional student. After graduated from community college, he transferred to the University of Pennsylvania on a full scholarship. In fact, many accomplished students now refrain from doing their first two years at a top undergraduate institution; instead studying at a community college with the goal of transferring to a top uni/LAC in mind.</the></p>

<p>OverRunWithSons, while you shouldn't let the initial sticker price of a given institution deter you, I would suggest that you look into the possibility of your boys doing their first two years at a local state uni or community college and then transferring to another university afterwards. There are alot of benefits to this:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Saving $ is the obvious one.</p></li>
<li><p>Your sons can figure out whether or not they really do want to be accountants (or anything else) in a relatively low-risk setting. When I was 17 I wanted to be an artist. Six years later, I want to be an economist. In short, things can change. </p></li>
<li><p>By the time your sons transfer to a better-funded university, they will have a clearer understanding of what they want from their education. They will be informed consumers. They will have adjusted to college life and developed the necessary study skills and coping mechanisms. In short, they'll be fully prepared to take advantage of everything a private (or top public) university may have to offer.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Best of luck. My parents are in a situation very similar to yours. Except they're over run with daughters.</p>

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<p>The only other school my son might want to go to is Geneva College, Beaver Falls PA -because again , it is close to home (He wants to commute), plus it is a Christian school & my son is very involved in Church & he would enjoy the atmosphere, type of people that attended there. I just don't feel we will get much aid, even though we are considered low income because of family size, we are completely debt free, our assets are over 100,000 when you consider house/property. Our vehicles are worth nothing -we choose to drive old stuff & stay out of debt. There is no way we could get a decent package. Nonone I know around my area does wtih an income like ours. (We live in a depressed area). And we are not willing to Co-sign big amounts for this many kids so if they default (VERY hard to find decent jobs in our area), we will loose our house. This son does not take this high school grades serious enough to consider that at all. He doesn't even like to read, he is horrible at anything related to writing or essays. He thinks more about running than his grades. I am surpirsed he does as well as he does accually. But he understands the need for College, he seems gifted in Math, so that is why he is choosing accounting. I also heard they give you decent financial aid packages the 1st year to get you in their school, but after that , they taper off and you end up footing much more of the bill.</p>

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<p>And most scholorships are for those who are gifted at Writing, or essays, right? That leaves him completley out of the game. He is very enthusastic about helping volunteer, he does the Carpenters' Project every year, etc, and he is good with Numbers, a decent Cross country Runner, but not the best in his grade, or school. So what kind of scholarships do not involved writing or some type of essay? Is his only hope something to do with his running?</p>

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<p>My sister attends a private college, and this has yet to happen to her. Her school costs roughly $40,000 a year, but with federal and institutional aid she only has to borrow about $2000 a year privately. </p>

<p>My parents have four children, and we're not well-to-do by any means. Many private colleges and universities have a policy of meeting full need. You may want to look into that.</p>

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<p>I love this idea-----"I would suggest that you look into the possibility of your boys doing their first two years at a local state uni or community college and then transferring to another university afterwards."... but IU heard you have to then find out if the credits or whatever they call them can even be transferred. I think someone told me the community colleges in my area, they CAN NOT be transferred to Slipepry Rock, probalby not Geneva either. It seems you really do need a plan before you begin anywhere!</p>

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<p>There are all kinds of scholarships. Some require essays; others do not. Some are administered purely on the basis of need. Many are offered by community organizations, which your high school's guidance counselor can tell you more about. Some are administered on the basis on an individual's heritage. It truly depends. Your son may in fact be able to get a scholarship because of his community involvement, commitment to Christianity, and good grades. There are lots of opportunities out there.</p>

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<p>When you say Federal and institutional aid, what does this mean exactly---ALL aid she does not have to pay back, or just AID she is qualified for (Because of Co-signers, etc), but will need to pay back? I keep hearing about how AId is being cut also by the government, so it will get skimpier and skimpier as the years go by.</p>

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<p><<i heard="" you="" have="" to="" then="" find="" out="" if="" the="" credits="" or="" whatever="" they="" call="" them="" can="" even="" be="" transferred.="">></i></p><i heard="" you="" have="" to="" then="" find="" out="" if="" the="" credits="" or="" whatever="" they="" call="" them="" can="" even="" be="" transferred.="">

<p>OverRunWithSons, I am a transfer veteran twice over. For the most part, introductory courses taken during the first two years at a community college or state university will transfer. If you have a particular college or university in mind to transfer, you may want to check their transfer admission guidelines (available on admissions websites) before selecting courses. Courses like calculus, microeconomics, macroeconomics, languages, etc. are fairly straightforward and generally will transfer with ease. The policies vary from institution to institution.</p>
</i>

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<p>Sounds like community involvement scholarships are our only hope, or something about running. Every time he volunteers, how do I prove it though-over the years, will I need to get a letter in writing from each organization?</p>

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<p>Institutional aid--grants provided by her college that do not need to be paid back. This is the majority of my sister's package.</p>

<p>Federal aid--Pell grants (this is what's being cut back on), federal work-study, Stafford loans, and an additional federal grant reserved for the neediest of students. No PLUS loans, so my parents aren't involved in this at all. This is about a quarter of my sister's package, maybe a little more.</p>

<p>Private loan--Financed by a bank. This is the smallest component of her aid package at $2000. My sisters and I do not have suitable co-signers.</p>

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<p>OverRunWithSons - As a former Pennsylvanian (grew up outside Philly) and currently having family in western Pennsylvania, you are fortunate to be in the Keystone state that has a wide array of public colleges/universities, community colleges, and excellent private colleges and universities. The tier levels derive from the U.S. News & World Report rankings (new rankings come out every year in August). As you are doing, continue to explore and learn about the various sources of advice on the CC forum (both archived advice from posts using the Search function) and new advice through forum posts and - as needed - private messages to individual CC'ers. </p>

<p>As for public smaller universities (don't know about cross country teams) let me toss in Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP) and University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown (UPJ). (My sister attended UPJ and then transferred to Pitt main campus.) At UPJ a student has the option of attending all four years at the Johnstown (actually suburban Richland) campus or transferring to the main campus in Pittsburgh. It's a nice potential option. As you probably know, IUP has a strong reputation in a number of fields (such as its honors college), and it is located in an attractive small town.</p>

<p>Personal bias - if a student and his/her family can afford it, I encourage being a resident student at a college (learning/doing first hand how to cope/develop as an independent adult) versus the community college route where the college age student is usually commuting from home.</p>

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<p>Your son should keep a resume, and he should also cultivate connections with community leaders and individuals at the various places where he volunteers. If he applies for community involvement scholarships, he will probably need to provide letters of recommendation, so personal relationships will be key. Also, I know this can be awkward, but be sure to let your son's guidance counselor know that money is an issue and that you are interested in scholarships. It is possible that s/he will be able to nominate your son for scholarships and awards.</p>

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<p>i guess i will chime in as a pennsylvania resident from a fairly 'depressed' community. as some have already said, dont let sticker prices fool you. </p>

<p>one of my best friends just graduated from juniata (with a degree in accounting, no less!) and spent significantly less to go there than he would have to attend penn state. his parents are in a better financial situation than you are.</p>

<p>i have another friend at syracuse who upon getting his financial aid package from penn state was unsure he was going to be able to attend college at all. he got the same loans from both schools, but syracuse is costing him half as much of pocket because of need-based grants. his family is probably in a similar financial situation as yours.</p>

<p>and neither were from families as large as yours. large families are often at an advantage in calculating financial aid awards.</p>

<p>i really do want to throw juniata out there as a school to consider because it is an absolute hidden gem. another great school, since you mentioned your son is religiously active, is grove city. i dont know much about the school, but washington and jefferson might be a good fit, as well.</p>

<p>another great option for your son would be to perhaps commute to the local penn state branch campus (beaver, new kensington, mckeesport, there are others) for his first two years and finish his studies at university park. the advantage over the community college route is that all credits here automatically transfer and getting into university park is virtually assured. he could earn a highly respected degree, run his first two years of college, save money by commuting for two years, and get two years to experience more independance without being too far away. i must admit cant imagine commuting while doing a varsity sport, though.</p>

<p>the university of pittsburgh has a similar program with campuses in greensburg, johnstown and titusville.</p>

<p>but again, i cant say enough how important it is to not automatically discount the private school route. my family is upper-middle class and even i attended a private school (bucknell) at a cost similar to that of penn state. in fact, i went to school for several thousand dollars less than my brother when i was a freshman there and he was a senior at penn state. given the number of years youre going to spend with two kids in college at the same time, the private school route becomes even more attractive simply because public school financial aid funds are extremely limited.</p>

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<p>Thank you for that last reply, I have a few years yet, son is only going to 10th grade, I just am thinking ahead, getting worried about what we'll be facing in a few years. I keep telling him he could go out of state--live on Campus, whatever all this entails, and he wants no part of it--right now. He is also VERY SHY & quiet, he will not get into the Faternity stuff, he doesnt drink or anything. He really does suck at writing and essays though and these Big Private colleges (like Grove City), I know from talking around, you almost have to be a genius to get in there. Geneva, the Christian College, is also known for all the essays. That is when he figured he might as well just go for Slippery ROck State college. My other boys are 7 yrs younger than him, so they won't be doing the college thing for awhile.</p>

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<p>Someone said that U-Tex had the best accounting program in the nation, I've never heard that before, I always thought it was Illinois (undergrad) and Wharton (grad)</p>

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<p>That is when he figured he might as well just go for Slippery ROck State college. My other boys are 7 yrs younger than him, so they won't be doing the college thing for awhile.</p>

<p>Slippery Rock is pretty bad. I'm sure your son does well. SR would be an insult to his intellect.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Ted Kozinski got an Ivy League education and look how he turned out.... GL!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not to digress, but I would point out that the Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski) was just as much a product of state schools as the Ivy League. After all, he did his undergrad at Harvard (that's the Ivy connection), but then got his PhD at the University of Michigan. I think we can all agree that a PhD is a much more intensive educational experience than is a bachelor's degree. Hence, if anything, the Unabomber is much more a product of a state school education than he is of an Ivy education.</p>

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<p>Here's another boost for private colleges/universities in Pennsylvanina down the road, "the Pennsylvania State Grant Program: Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Authority (PHEAA) sponsors a need-based state grant program for undergraduate Pennsylvania residents who will be enrolled at least half-time (6 or more credit hours per semester) during the current academic year. Currently Pennsylvania State Grants range from $100 to $3,300 per academic year." </p>

<p>There are so many very good to excellent private colleges and universities in Pennsylvania (along with an extensive public college/university system). It's early yet but ericatbucknell's positive remarks about Juniata College (post #33) are right on the money. I have a niece who is a student at Juniata who (1) really enjoys it and (2) received substantial need based aid.</p>

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<p>CC's tend to serve several populations, all of whom are in the same classes.</p>

<p>You have students who due to financial or other constraints intend on getting a 4-year degree but start in a CC. You have retired people (and sometimes working people in evening classes) who take classes for general interest or career reasons.</p>

<p>You have some students who finally got serious about education after HS when they realized they weren't working hard enough in HS to get into a 4-year college, and our country can be proud that there's a way for these people to get back on track (in contrast to a country like france, where a placement exam in HS determines whether you can go to college, and which one).</p>

<p>And finally you have the students that people often have in mind when they 'dis CCs, those who maybe don't belong there. These days its somewhat frowned upon to finish HS with no intention of college. Many parents expect their kids to go to college, even if Johnny has no interest in doing so. The CC plays the role of bridge between HS and the "real world" for these students, allowing them to at least start attending a college before quitting.</p>

<p>And there are lots of these students! Stats show that about 2/3 HS graduates enroll in college, and that 42% of all students in college are at 2-year schools. And the stats clearly show this "CC bridge-out effect"; of students starting at a CC only 17% get a 2-year degree and 11% get a bachelor's.</p>

<p>So not even 1/3 of the HS students who start at a CC will get a college degree (2 or 4 year). Some attrition is due to various non-academic reasons; people get married, have families to support, get kicked out of their house and have to start working, etc. But for many students a CC is a face-saving way to make the bridge out from HS without refusing to go to college.</p>

<p>A real interesting report called "Community College Students: Goals, Academic Preparation, and Outcomes" is at <a href="http://nces.ed.gov/programs/quarterly/vol_5/5_2/q4_1.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://nces.ed.gov/programs/quarterly/vol_5/5_2/q4_1.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
I just don't feel we will get much aid, even though we are considered low income because of family size, we are completely debt free, our assets are over 100,000 when you consider house/property. Our vehicles are worth nothing -we choose to drive old stuff & stay out of debt. There is no way we could get a decent package. Nonone I know around my area does wtih an income like ours.

[/quote]
Have you filled out one of the online calculators? Until you do, you don't know what your family EFC will be. Colleges count aasets such as a house different than income or assets in a childs name.</p>

<p>As for the overall college search, I think you should step back for a minute here. This forum is great for things such as answers to specific questions and getting info on schools you haven't visited, but its doled out in bits and pieces. My strong suggestion is to build the foundation before you go out and start choosing schools. This means read a good book or two about admissions; I recommend "Admission Matters" which goes over the whole process, and after that "Colleges that Change Lives". Think how many hundreds of posts you'd have to read to get the same amount of info.</p>

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<p>Actually Grove City is very small (freshman class under 600) and fairly reasonable tuition wise (under $17,000 for everything). It is a Christian school too. And they are division three cross country, which means no scholarship but if he is any good that might be a good hook to get him in.</p>