<p>Oh no you dinuunhh, gurl</p>
<p>/thread</p>
<p>I agree that more emphasis needs to be placed on grammar and writing in general. Most of english, at least in my experience isn’t EVEN analyzing text. Most of the time, it’s memorizing random events and characters from a book.
It’s still vital, but it’s the only class that one has to take all four years of high school (besides PE/Health) at my school. Not even math is required all four years. Or social studies, for that matter, which I consider fairly important to know. And I’m a math/science guy.</p>
<p>To get people into other subjects I suppose. Like FastNeutrino’s school, English is the class you have to take most of at my school, and AP Language the only one without literature doesn’t count for graduation.</p>
<p>History, political science, economics, I think are all useful courses beyond simply being quizzed on Jeopardy rather than English. There is some bias in my opinion as I’ve always struggled with English, and the SATs too–unlike all of the other courses I have not found effective study/learning methods. </p>
<p>One reason why I can’t wait to get to college is because competition is against your major, not the whole spectrum of subjects. How many non-math/science courses am I going to take? 3 starting out as a sophomore due to APs. I guess the AP program/high school courses is in place to make the education more general before someone goes off into their major…</p>
<p>You know, I’d appreciate it if, rather than complaining that my position is contrary to your own (and that this makes me “close minded”, even though this works both ways), you’d actually present evidence to support your claims, explain where my logic goes wrong, defend your extrapolations and assumptions, etc.</p>
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<p>They never taught us logical fallacies in English class. Labeling me a “jerk” is slightly hypocritical when you repeat factually false statements like the above.</p>
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<p>No, the exact opposite is true. If I am “not even giving the other side a closer look”, how can I logically dissect your position and examine holes in your argument? Does this sound like “not giving it a closer look”?</p>
<p>You seem to think that disagreeing with you is a sign of close-mindedness (it never occurs to you that this works both ways). If you tell me that 2+2 equals 5 and I explain to you why that is false, I’m not being close minded, I’m just positing a logical argument, while you’re getting ****ed that I don’t fall in line with your own subjective opinion.</p>
<p>“You won’t give the other side a look!”, in short, is logically incoherent. It’s just a style over substance, hypocritical “you won’t agree with me, so you’re a ■■■■■■■!” argument.</p>
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<p>Ok, let me get this straight.</p>
<p>I’ve asked for EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE of this assertion half a dozen times by now. Every time, you’ve ignored and evaded the question, only to come out and restate your position as proof of itself.</p>
<p>Your entire argument is evident that you’ve never been in a formal debate in your life, and you’re not educated on basic logical concepts. You employ circuluar logic, ad hominems, appeals to popularity, appeals to tradition, non sequitors…do you have any idea what you’re talking about?</p>
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<p>English is relevant to History. But so are Science and Math. In fact, Science and technology have quite literally shaped the course of human history, and are incalculably more important to understanding human events. Or does Hamlet have a comparable impact in world history with the movable printing press?</p>
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<p>I agree with your idealized English class, but I’m referring to the English class that exists in American school systems today, which is completely different.</p>
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<p>As you are contesting the OP, you are defending the fact that English courses are slightly more emphasized than Science courses in public schooling. By extension, you have to at the very least establish a comparable importance between, for example, Greek tragedies and radar systems. You have not.</p>
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<p>Wow, ancient Greek tragedy is more important to ancient Greek culture than something invented long after Ancient Greece? How does this support your notion that BOTH are important to modern society?</p>
<p>No, that’s not me strawmanning your position. You specifically stated that the study of Greek tragedies benefit society (and grouping it with radar systems implies that its benefit is of similar value). You used the present tense.</p>
<p>Lots of people have answered your question at this point. Studying English literature is important to communication because it shows how others have communicated in the past.</p>
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<p>I never said math and science weren`t related to history…I was just trying to support my opinion that English and history have a lot to do with each other…</p>
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<p>Do you have empirical data to show that studying ancient texts helps you communicate in modern society?</p>
<p>Or, at the very least, you could explain why English class is mandatory while, for example, Philosophy is not, which has the same premise.</p>
<p>Not everything in life requires data. Life isn’t a science class. When you learn and understand how authors manipulate language, you better learn to manipulate language yourself. It’s really that simple. Philosophy doesn’t teach language the way English does, which is probably why philosophy isn’t required, while English is.</p>
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<p>Evidence…?</p>
<p>I agree w/ ashleysong. To be more precise: analyzing literature means, essentially, to understand how a text says something, or how it makes the reader feel a certain way. In essence, we study the rhetoric of the text (style, fig. lang, symbolism, diction, imagery, etc.) and its influence on meaning.
This serves two purposes:
- we develop critical reading/thinking skills, which means we won’t be “taken in,” so to speak, by the use of literary devices to persuade us of something illogical
- we potentially become capable of using the techniques we study in our own writing.
Not to mention the extra knowledge we learn, which is nice; the fact that high school english also preps us for reading/writing in general, and we need material; finally, some people just enjoy it.
For that matter, math isn’t particularly useful in life either, other than basic algebra. What is important is mastering the mathematical thought process, whose logic and rigor will be useful in any field, as well as in life.</p>
<p>Btw, I’m a high school senior who for now is planning on going into medicine, and who loves math. So no bias here 
I just also happen to love English class :D</p>
<p>A “text” is subjective. Any information passed from a human to another human is a “text” that must be interpreted. Reading and analyzing 2000 year old texts is a method of teaching how to interpret any idea. The purpose for using those texts is because they are the best ones that can teach this easily. </p>
<p>Lolz for you asking such a question. What’s the use of asking collegeconfidential.com for such info? It’s pointless and you might as well be doing science homework cause obviously that is what you want to do.</p>
<p>Major ■■■■■ btw.</p>
<p>Early English classes are of vast importance. They do everything that’s already been listed. But later ones seem more about fine tuning a persons writing style and interpreting information. Making generalizations from small amounts of data. I personally like English but I hate, hate hate all of my teachers. It’s not a pointless class. It’s a little bothersome, but anyone can find enjoyment in a class if they look for it. This applies to English too.</p>
<p>I never really took thins thread too seriously in the first place, but this has all just gone wayyy, wayyyyy too far.</p>
<p>@RMIB Well, I think we should all come to the conclusion that since not all English classes are the same, then there’s no sense in fighting over their importance. As you’ve pointed out, schools teach things differently. Your English teachers haven’t taught you about rhetorical devices or spent much time on grammar and syntax, while my whole sophomore and junior years were devoted to just that.</p>
<p>After a certain point, Math isn’t “useful” in everyday life, or even for your career. I’ve heard some people say a Math major is like a Philosophy major. </p>
<p>English is important for me because it helps me understand some of the world’s most intelligent people’s ideas well. Shakespeare was a genius, and the reason we still read him is because his observations on humanity and his insights can be invaluable in helping us better understand and live our lives.</p>
<p>English class also helps us to write better, and to express our thoughts more logically. I’ve heard it said that, “Every great writer was once a great reader.” By writing argumentative papers, you learn how to logically debate a point. By reading great literature, you learn to write better, and your ideas are better, and more coherent.</p>
<p>Two summers ago I did an experiment. I read 2 “Great books” a week. These were some thick classics (Pride and Prejudice, A Tale of Two Cities, etc). By the end of the summer, I was the most intellectually stimulated I’ve ever been in my life. My brain was a whirlwind of ideas. </p>
<p>Another point of English class is to encourage the power of books. Read Faherenheit 451. When books and free discussion and knowledge are thrown away, bad **** happens. English class encourages kids to learn to love literature.</p>
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<p>Ditto. Seriously, I think it<code>s clear after 4 pages (soon to be 5) that we</code>re not going to come to an agreement. I posted a few times on this thread, but this is pointless! </p>
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<p>Absolutely. Got a problem with what your school`s teaching? Go talk to the principal, because my school teaches grammar, syntax, etc.</p>
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<p>Yes, exactly. This is sort of what I<code>ve been trying to say but couldn</code>t think of the exact words to put it in. J24601J, THANK YOU! :)</p>