<p>While I will readily concede there are some people at W&L that undoubtedly think that way, my D would disagree with the suggestion that her experiences, socially or otherwise were second tier. Of course, her objective was not to pursue a social life as a “stereotypical W&L student,” especially if defined by binge drinking and conservative politics. That reputation is what nearly dissuaded her from choosing W&L in the first place, and if the climate there was so narrowly limited to that there is no way she could have loved it as much as she did. </p>
<p>However, as I alluded earlier, if your student is the sensitive type, the kind that seeks a lot of affirmation from others, has confidence issues, or an introvert, AND staunchly liberal, there are certainly more suitable places to spend 4 years than W&L. On the other hand, W&L, for all its reputation, is not an intimidating place to be and is full of great people and amazing academics. I have no problem seeing both sides of that coin. If nothing else, it has to be a well thought out individual choice to be there. It’s not a place one should elect to attend arbitrarily.</p>
<p>I agree with the fiscally conservative, socially liberal comment. My s is very liberal, but he is surrounded by republicans. That said, you can find all types. The main thing we noticed is that most come from very affluent families. My s doesn’t really care, but he definitely drives the worst car there!</p>
<p>Okay, I see that there are some Jewish students in this school and are happy. We are in a community which is predominantly Jewish and our kids are having a very protected and happy school years. Coming to the time of applying for colleges I am really surprised to see that some of the highly ranked LACs in the South, Mid West does not seem to value or tolerate non-white [Well Jews are fair skined :)] people very well and treat them “differently”.</p>
<p>So my question to current students and parents [both non-white - if any, and Caucasian - Jewish and non-Jewish], can a non-white, other wise well socialized, average Asian american kid do well academically and socially at W and L?</p>
<p>The only reason for considering W and L, is the merit scholarship.</p>
<p>tamtiger - the short answer to your question is “Yes” a well-socialized Asian American kid can do well socially and academically at W&L. Without any limitations. </p>
<p>That being said, if “the only reason for considering W&L is the merit scholarship” than it is probably not a good fit for your child. W&L students tend to be fanatically loyal to the school. If your son/daughter is not “in-love” with W&L and is not genuinely excited about the academic/social/extracurricular scene - they he/she may not fit in, and it won’t have anything to do with ethnicity.</p>
<p>@McGinNC
Thank you. Wow, it took a long time for some one to reply. </p>
<p>We are yankees… [pun intended]. The colleges that most kids in our neck of the woods go to are in the North East, Illinois, PA, OH and rarely California. I am surprised that not many or hardly any kids from our town go to most Southern schools other than perhaps the occasional admission to Duke, Vandy, Rice or Emory. </p>
<p>But when you look at the top 25 schools you read a lot of good things about W and L and few other less well known [nationally] southern schools. </p>
<p>To be honest with you, I have always looked past and over W and L, since it was an unknown school for us. I read on another thread on this web site where someone was commenting on the scholarship given by W and L. So, yes that was the reason we even looked at W and L. It is probably a great school but is unknown to students in this part of the country. If ever we end up in W and L, then we will be the first from this school district.</p>
<p>No disrespect to W and L, but we have to get to know more about W and L. W & L is perhaps well known regionally, but not yet nationally well known. It is beginning to get some attention and is attracting applicants from areas beyond its usual catchment areas and feeder schools because of the scholarship [at least in my opinion].</p>
<p>I actually started this thread almost a year ago. My son just committed to W&L just yesterday. Like you, I was very curious to learn about this school that I had barely heard of. In the end, my son was accepted to many highly selective schools and honors programs, but W&L was the best fit. Here are some of the things about the school that were attractive:</p>
<ul>
<li>the honor system</li>
<li>everyone is really very friendly</li>
<li>great academics; small classes</li>
<li>although there are frats and sororities, the parties are all open, so there is no real exclusivity</li>
<li>good internship opportunities</li>
<li>graduates have a great track record of getting into law/med school and getting jobs</li>
<li>strong committed alumni network</li>
<li>only lac to have a business school</li>
<li>great FA</li>
</ul>
<p>I can go on, but I guess you get the point. Forgetting everything I listed above, we went to visit the school and my son got to stay overnight on a Saturday. He had a great time, and really liked the kids there. I think, in the end, that is the most important thing. Go and visit the campus and see if it is right for you. You should not go to W&L without visiting first.</p>
<p>Thank you. When you have so many other choices across the country and closer to home, one has to make a convincing case for coming to a school in rural VA, which has some historical misgivings about its leanings towards pluralism and social environment [party culture included]. </p>
<p>Parents do not spend 4 years in the school the student does. So, there has to be a strong reason for forgoing all known schools to come to an unkown school.</p>
<p>I brought up W & L to my child this morning. I asked who do you like more, Washington or Robert E. Lee. [Did not tell why I was asking this]. The answer was Robert E. Lee of course he was the better man… :).
Then I brought up W and L, and explained the 2 to 3 day stay in interview process for the scholarship. [I personally think it is a great idea, the student gets to know the school better, can make an informed decision and vice versa] so now it is in the mix. </p>
<p>I am not sure, if we will make a trip to W & L before applying. I see that W & L wants students to show interest to be selected, so there may be no call, it does not matter. If the application is considered for admission and if there is a call for the scholarship interview then will visit the school and make the decision at that time.</p>
<p>We are just getting ready for next year, summer and fall is when the decisions actually happen. So lets see.</p>
<p>Thanks again to all who responded, especially to McGinNC, who is obviously is an Alum and is very passionate about W & L.</p>
<p>Ditto to Xwords59 and my daughter committed two days ago as well. Could not be happier with her decision. We went up for admitted students day (our second visit) and she knew within an hour that it was the place for her. Students were super friendly and welcoming and down to earth. We were impressed with the diversity of admitted students at the events this week. Lots of interesting kids from all over - many of whom were deciding between W&L and other prestigious schools.</p>
<p>W&L has a tremendous academic reputation - and not just by southerners. It’s also more geographically diverse than the LAC she was considering in NY, which surprised us. It’s ranked the #1 school in the country (ahead of Yale) by the Alumni Factor for alumni outcomes/happiness. That says a whole lot. AND it has the distinction of having the highest graduation rate of any school (college or university) in the country - 92%, so they must be doing something right.</p>
<p>That said, I can see that W&L isn’t for everyone. There’s no crystal ball for this process - my daughter’s decision was a tough one, but I feel great about the choice she’s made. Now it will be up to her to make the most of her experience, put herself out there to make friends, make wise choices at parties, grind it out academically, etc.</p>
<p>Tamtiger: re: your comment about rural Virginia’s “historical misgivings” - you should probably just cross W&L off your list. Sounds like you’ve got a bias in place without having done any real research (outside of CC).</p>
<p>@nbc
Thank you for your reply. Congratulations on your daughters admission to W & L. As you said before, you are from the rural deep south and W & L is regional for you and you have heard of and know about it. We do not. I have lived in the south and had a great time, I have no problems with the south. But my children have never lived in the south. So I want to make sure that they will enjoy their 4 years in a rural southern school.</p>
<p>You are correct we are using CC to get information about schools that we do not know about. We read good and bad things about schools. But one needs to look through the messages and decide if it is right fit or not.</p>
<p>You are right we need to decide if W & L [it is a great school] is a fit for us or not. Or if we should simply cross off W & L and continue with the usual list of schools that one would consider from our school district. The problem is we can not travel to all the schools across the country. We have to make our choices on campus visits because of time and tight travel budget.</p>
<p>Thats is what I am trying to do, if I should encourage my child to apply to W & L or not. But thanks for your input.</p>
<p>My daughter confirmed with W&L about a week ago. She was not one of those who fell immediately in love with the school, but her affection grew as shelearned more and more. I think a key factor was the incredible enthusiasm of the students and alumni she met at regional admitted student receptions. We didn’t learn of the Alumni Factor Rankings until after that, but I had already concluded I had never met such a committed, happy, and successful alumni network. I think W&L is known beyond the south for sure. The second largest group of students to apply (the first is Virginia) are from CA. It is certainly not as well known as many universities, but most people outside of academia haven’t heard of Williams or other LACs either.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. I am going encourage my child to consider W & L. But it is up to them to explore and find out more about W & L and decide if it is a right fit for them or not. </p>
<p>I am just a guide. The problem is, when there are a lot of good schools [Several schools in the top 50] right in your neighbourhood, there has to be an exceptional reason to look outside of your proximate schools.</p>
<p>In W & Ls case as a parent, the scholarship is one of those reasons, in addition to the quality of education.</p>
<p>Hopefully we will end up liking W & L, [well hope we get the admission and the scholarship] and next year I will be writing on CC, defending or rather encouraging future applicants to consider W & L :).</p>
<p>I understand and agree with your perspective. Parent of a '12 grad, Johnson scholar. We hadn’t heard of W&L prior to s receiving info from the school which highlighted the scholarship program. He didn’t visit the school until he was invited for the scholarship competition weekend in February, and the candidates were treated very well, all expenses are paid.</p>
<p>He loved his weekend experience there, the beautiful campus, the friendliness of the students, the engaging professors. When decision time came and he was awarded the scholarship he was thrilled, and so was I. As a recent college grad working at a terrific job, he recognizes what a strong education he received and how wonderful it is to be debt free. The scholarship also covers their study abroad experiences.</p>
<p>@lindz126
Thank you. You answered one of my questions in your post. That was, should you have visited the campus prior to the application, for you to be favourably considered for the admission and the scholarship. Because we can not visit the school, just too far away. Yes, I will be encouraging my child to apply. Reading about W & L on this forum, it is very intriguing, both good and not so good things. I guess one has to visit the campus to really get a true “individual” perception about this school and then make up the mind, if this will be a good fit for one’s life goals, aspirations and if one will enjoy the 4 years on campus at W & L.
Thanks again.</p>
<p>Sounds like an interesting place, but I have to say it’s striking to see a few posters heap so much praise on Robert E. Lee. Historians recount that Lee said that he had to choose between being an American or a Virginian and he chose the latter, leading the fight for the state and the south to retain slavery.</p>
<p>Momfromme - I reread the entire thread. The only post about Robert E Lee was from Tamtiger’s son who is a high school senior and lives in the Northeast (I think).</p>
<p>@momfromme- Historians also recount that the civil war was over much more than just slavery. Furthermore Lee wasn’t a big proponent of slavery to start with. But most importantly he set the course for W&L to become the top academic institution it is today.</p>
<p>Lee had headed West Point and was a superb military leader, but he cast his lot with states that supported slavery. And, yes, the Civil War was about preserving slavery. The Constitution created by the Confederacy put it at the center of its purpose. </p>
<p>Again, I don’t think this in any way undermines the quality of Washington and Lee. It is certainly a fine institution.</p>
<p>@momformme, coppijr, Xwords59
Yes, I was the one who posted about Robert E. Lee. I do not know much about the Civil war except very superficially, so I am not qualified to say anything. But my child who is studying AP US History has read more than me and has debated this in school as part of their class. So, in their words, the first thing they said was, they liked Robert E. Lee’s character. </p>
<p>That being said, we are now in the 21st Century, we are in a different world. Does racial prejudice exist any where in the country, yes it does, both north and south. The difference in my opinion is that [I may be completely wrong about this] there is less exposure to people who are different than one self in the South, may be not in the cities but in smaller towns. </p>
<p>I have lived in Mississippi, Alabama and came across really wonderful people who were genuinely nice, ones they got to know you. But until they get to know you, you are “different”. That is not the case in the North, where I guess there is it is much more cosmopolitan. There is less mistrust or hesitation to get to know you.</p>
<p>My concern is W & L is in rural VA. A lot of the students are from the south. I have also read on CC that in schools like Wake Forest [a fine southern school] students who are not caucasian may not have a great time and a lot of them transfer out of the school. I do not know if that is the case at W & L? May be not and hope not.</p>
<p>I truly believe the 4 years of UG are formative years for any student and they should get the best exposure to different experiences [positive ones] so that they can believe in them self and do well later in life. I don’t want them to end in a place where they are treated differently and have a miserable time. So far, based on the posts on this CC, I have not seen many such posts. There are some that warn that it may not be the best place for a non-caucasian student and others argue otherwise.</p>
<p>While the scholarship will help, if the 4 years are going to be miserable then it is not worth considering it. We have to find out for our self.</p>
<p>Actually, quite a few students from W&L are from the northeast, midwest and California. I believe southerners account for about 1/3 of the student body (less if you don’t count Florida or Texas). If you google “where does your freshman class come from” you’ll get a link to a site that provides a useful tool to find out how geographically diverse a school is. </p>
<p>I grew up in the south, then went north for college, lived out west, the midwest, then returned home. I was treated as “different” in every place until people got to know me. Most frustrating of all was the “you’re southern so you’re obviously a racist (backwards, inbred, ignorant, insert stereotype here)” reaction I got from some people. It happens. And sometimes southerners are some or all of those things. We’re a complicated people with a complicated history. But I would caution anyone against avoiding an area because it’s rural southern (unless any rural setting just doesn’t appeal to the student).</p>
<p>It would certainly be an interesting discussion indeed if we hashed out the ethics of the founders and donors of our nation’s great colleges and universities. I suspect Robert E. Lee might look like a saint compared to some ;).</p>
<p>1) If anything concerns me about W & L, is the ruralness of the college. What are the opportunities for research, outside world as in interning in good places in your field etc. [Location not necessarily the people].</p>
<p>2) Regarding social aspects, I do not much care for the drinking culture, if you are not a roman in rome then you may be an outcast [I saw a post in this regards earlier]. This concerns me. </p>
<p>3) Being treated differently, is not a big issue for me. That is life, we need to know how to overcome it. My experience has been people look past this once they know what you can bring to the table [after the initial mistrust]. So it is you that matters [in most cases] not your color or slant of the face, that is America [Go USA :)].</p>
<p>Unless there are multiple admissions from other top institutions [in urban areas] with aid, we will be debating the merits of applying/attending W & L this summer. </p>
<p>It is up to the student to decide to take the plunge or not. </p>
[pun intended]. The colleges that most kids in our neck of the woods go to are in the North East, Illinois, PA, OH and rarely California. I am surprised that not many or hardly any kids from our town go to most Southern schools other than perhaps the occasional admission to Duke, Vandy, Rice or Emory. </p>