What isn't good about Stanford?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
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<p><a href=“At%20Stanford”>quote</a> you will never be able to sit with kids who are bright in many different fields

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<p>I will disagree with you here. Never is such a strong word. Stanford has many students enter into Phi Beta Kappa each year, and most if not all of those could be considered “bright in many different fields.” Just because some students decide to pursue majors that leave little time for classes in other fields does not discount their breadth as students and lifelong learners. </p>

<p>I had a friend who, in the time I knew him, only took engineering classes. Yet everyday he would read through the New York Times and was interested in talking about global politics or philosophy as much as emerging technology. Students like that, though not necessarily a majority, are not a rare breed. </p>

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<p>so to fan the flames, more grade inflation here or at harvard? the harvard tour guide i saw said he spent more time on EC’s than academics. …</p>

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<p>So, my daughter is a tall, naturally pretty (peers said she can go out without makeup), loud-laughing, outgoing, naturally-leading (according to counselor), talented (according to many), sweet, and academically outstanding (4.0 with some state flagship college classes, top of high school class so far) new junior. Compare to kids I know who were admitted to top schools, she is on par. If Stanford provides her a face-to-face interview I think she’ll certainly stand out on personality. She is a great writer as well, but there is still a huge possibility that she will be eliminated because she is an asian. (Ahh, I know, some of you feel a drop when you read the word ‘asian’. Too bad the admissions are probably the same.)</p>

<p>I would say the low x admission rate, compare to Caltech and Cal, is the not-so-good thing about Stanford.</p>

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<p>In post #37 I asked about whether Stanford is prepared for earthquakes that were anticipated to come… and was somewhat laughed at. (I don’t mind, though)</p>

<p>“As for those worried about west coast earthquakes, every building save one is earthquake safe, and they’re tearing that one down. And really? It’s not any more dangerous than the south’s hurricanes or the midwest tornadoes.”</p>

<p>For “south’s hurricanes or the midwest tornadoes” one can hide and avoid injury most of the times, for earth quakes there is no place to hide.</p>

<p>And the earthquakes are ‘certainly’ coming.</p>

<p>The threat is real as a 6.1 has happened this morning in the bay area. I hope there are plans in place because they predicted multiple 6.x magnitude quakes; experts said it is easier that buildings survive one bigger quake than multiple 6.x quakes. Safety is the most important. Earthquake-safe buildings are still not totally safe for several 6+ shakes. What I am more interested about is evacuation plan and rescue plan when communications may be lost during the time.</p>

<p>Other than that, Just in case there are damages to the buildings and classes cannot be in session, are there any agreement to have students use other university facilities for classes or they will be forced to take a gap year/semester? Well, this may not be a question but a suggestion for preparing early. I think current Stanford parents should push for this.</p>

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<p>We’re talking about one of the finest schools in the world, so understand that I am nit-picking. But…</p>

<ul>
<li>Compared to HYP and MIT and Caltech, the students fare poorly on tests. I’m in the camp who think that test scores reveal a lot about what a person knows and, more importantly, rate a person’s ability to use logic to solve problems which he has not faced; that is, sifting and winnowing the answer options to an unknown question so that, while he may not know the correct answer, he can at least eliminate a couple of the options. HYP, MIT, and Caltech students perform better on such tests, and Columbia and Chicago are at Stanford’s level here. Memory and the ability to use logic quickly are two of the biggest factors of intelligence, and both are measued on the SAT and ACT.</li>
</ul>

<p>That said, Tree is a top-five school because of its faculty strength: relative dunces that they are ;-), Stanford students are privy to among the best faculties in the world. And in the end, kids go to school to be educated. Stanford offers that in spades.</p>

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<p>@Findmoreinfo. I’m sorry…but, having read through some of your threads I understand you are a parent of a potential “future” applicant…and I believe you and your family live in California if I am not mistaken…</p>

<p>…what do you think Stanford would do differently than UCBerkeley, Caltech, UCLA, Pomona, USC, and all the other wonderful schools in California? Stanford and the other California institutions do the best they can to secure the buildings to be earthquake safe…there are no guarantees in life.</p>

<p>…if you don’t want to live in California…no one is holding a gun to your head to stay in California. You are free to leave. If you feel that Stanford or any of the other California colleges, high schools, and primary schools are not safe…you don’t need to have your child attend them. It is plain and simple. </p>

<p>The fact that California has earthquakes once in a while doesn’t seem to bother people moving here…especially to the beautiful Bay area and Silicon Valley…and it doesn’t seem to bother many of the famous billionaires sending their kids to Stanford (and you would think they would know better)…</p>

<p>…and I believe the entire country of Japan lives under the potential threat of earthquakes…but, they also seem to do quite well for themselves…</p>

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<p>

Stanford has a lower admit rate than all the colleges listed above and likely a similarly highly competitive applicant pool, so one might wonder why Stanford doesn’t have the highest test scores in the group? The answer is Stanford places less focus on tests scores and more focus on other areas of the application than most other highly selective colleges. Personally I think this is a good thing. The students who have the greatest impact on the college and world beyond are often not the students with perfect test scores. The same could be said for the students who generally make the campus a better place. If you measure college grads by success within their relative fields/goals and impact on the world, I’d expect Stanford’s grads match or surpass any college, including ones with slightly higher average scores. </p>

<p>There are plenty of selective colleges that have less holistic admissions and focus more on test scores. As an example, the 25th and 75th ACT scores for a variety of selective colleges are below. Among colleges on this list, I see little correlation with test scores and any meaningful measure of quality. The colleges that have top scores in spite of a notably higher admit rate and slightly less competitive applicant pool than HYPSMC… type generally admit the overwhelming majority of applicants with scores in the upper end of their range. If Stanford were to do the same, they’d end up with a class where everyone had near perfect test scores, missing out on all the slightly lower scoring applicants who had something exceptional on their application and accepting many top scoring applicants who had certain negative issues elsewhere on the app. I certainly do not think such a policy would improve the college.</p>

<p>Notre Dame – 32/34
Vanderbilt – 32/34
WUSTL – 32/34
Princeton – 31/35
Rice – 31/34
Stanford – 31/34
University of Pennsylvania – 30/34
Boston College – 30/33
Brown – 29/34</p>

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<p>Here’s my take on it:
The US News rankings (and other similar types) have changed the face of higher education in our country. In essence, US News utilizes very quantitative factors to determine the rank of a college (acceptance rate, yield rate, SAT/ACT scores, peer school assessments, etc). To the detriment of the universities and the students, the US News rankings have pressured applicants to consider the reputation (ranking) of the school because US News makes it so easy to determine which school is “better.” Consequently, colleges feverishly ensure that they climb the rankings. </p>

<p>With colleges now feeling pressured to achieve the highest rank possible on US News, many have resorted to putting heavier weight onto test scores/grades. Also, colleges have resorted to trying to protect yield rates by accepting students early (sometimes even through contractual obligation). For example, Harvard College sends about half of its acceptance letters through the Restricted Early Action round to increase its’ yield rate and thus increasing a metric that will help when it comes to rankings. Another example are schools, such as Duke and Vanderbilt, that use competitive scholarships to try to win over HYPSM cross-admits. Even worse, certain schools excessively use e-mail and postal mail to send brochures to increase applicants and lower their acceptance rate as a result (<em>cough</em> UChicago <em>cough</em>).</p>

<p>Has Stanford fallen victim to the rankings game? To a certain extent, yes, but I’d say much less so than its’ peers. Stanford has, generally, fallen short on the US News rankings because, as stated by Data10, it focuses on other qualities rather than just scores/grades. For example, Stanford has won the Director’s Cup (awarded to best overall NCAA program) for the past 20 years in a row. Yes, Stanford has the best athletics program in the nation. With the caliber of students being recruited for athletics at Stanford, it is expected that they do not have the same time to invest in studying for standardized tests (they are trying to perfect a talent instead!). But they bring something to the table. They bring talent, motivation/commitment (as demonstrated by the level they have achieved in athletics), and spirit to Stanford. That’s well worth a drop off in test scores (and rankings, consequently). </p>

<p>Consider some anecdotal evidence as well. About four years ago, a student was accepted to Stanford from my school. He was Asian-American (meaning he’d have to be extremely competitive in an already competitive group). Though he “only” got a 2110 on the SAT, he had produced multiple albums and was a respected leader in our student government. He had talent and he had charisma. Stanford saw that and realized that the small SAT point drop off was worth having him. Similarly, a student from another school started and ran his own online business. With only a 2050 on the SAT, one would never assume he’d get into Stanford. But he did. Stanford saw that he had an entrepreneurial spirit and accepted him. </p>

<p>Stanford has demonstrated that while a student must have top caliber test scores, they follow more of a cut-off system. Once your score is high enough, they’ll turn to other factors. With the applicant pool Stanford receives, the admissions office could fill the school with 2300+/35+ valedictorians, but it choose not to. Instead they have a commitment to trying to build a class that will leave a lasting impact. They do not lock students up by contract to get them to matriculate (Columbia or the University of Pennsylvania). They do not accept students just because they apply REA and are likelier to yield (Stanford has, by far, the earliest REA acceptance rate.) Stanford doesn’t defer applicants during the early round (like essentially all of its’ peers) just to avoid discouraging regular decision applicants. Stanford also has one of the most comprehensive applications, with multiple essays so that the admissions committee can understand how the student really is like. Other schools have only one or two other essays (sometimes even optional!)</p>

<p>Stanford won’t win the US News ranking game (somewhat deterring students who only want to apply for the prestige/rankings). Instead, it will build a class of students who have a passion for what they do, not for the SAT. </p>

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<p>@Shutterstock. Don’t worry about USNews (since they constantly manipulate the algorithms to try and get the schools they want appearing higher…because when the magazine first came out with the rankings Stanford was #1 back in the 80s…and they couldn’t have that!)…after all, what do you expect from the publisher/editor (Mortimer Zuckerman) who holds degrees from Harvard and Penn…</p>

<p>…at least Forbes and its publisher (Steve Forbes…a Princeton man) is not afraid to place other schools ahead of his alma mater in their annual rankings…</p>

<p>…remember, even the “history” books are biased to a large extent by the author and its publisher…and I believe there are a lot more sophisticated students and parents out there who can see beyond the “annual” rankings from multiple sources…</p>

<p>…that is why each year more and more students/parents have Stanford as their top dream school…</p>

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<p>@gravitas2. Sorry you got it wrong :slight_smile: I am not living in California just have friends and relatives there. My daughter isn’t interested in UCBerkeley, Caltech, UCLA, Pomona, or USC. If my kid couldn’t get in to Stanford or the other schools on her list, one of the state flagships will be the place to go.</p>

<p>I am concering about the preparation at Stanford because I care about it for at least the coming several years. Current parents need to pay more attention to that.</p>

<p>"…and I believe the entire country of Japan lives under the potential threat of earthquakes…but, they also seem to do quite well for themselves… "
You have no idea. Many were terrified whenever a small quake occurred because of the earthquake-safe buildings (skyscraper apartments, the buildings shake with the quake so that they wouldn’t break; and at 15th floor they shake like crazy). Many just didn’t have the resources or willingness to live in other places. (I am not from Japan but my country of origin is the same way)</p>

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<p>In the end natural disasters are always going to happen. I don’t think that’s a reason not to go. It’s kind of like guessing when the stock market is going to crash. No one really knows even though everyone thinks they have the right prediction. I’m pretty sure Stanford is reasonably protected with their earthquake proof buildings. But if you are worried anyway check how many Stanford students were harmed/killed by the '89 earthquake. Then cut that by half at least and you would get your chance of injury/harm now. Then multiply that by the possibility of the earthquake happening in the first place. I’m pretty sure it would be less than the national homicide rate. </p>

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<p>I found the stats for you :slight_smile: : “In 1989, there were no deaths and no serious injuries on campus, although the student population was eight times that of 1906, the total faculty was more than 1,300, and staff members on campus each day numbered in the thousands. In 1906, the quake occurred as the day was beginning, and in 1989, the quake struck as the workday was ending.” So yea 0%/2 * (probability of earthquake occurring) = 0% < national homicide rate. </p>

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<p>^ O.K. Thanks. However, you probably don’t understand what I meant by Stanford’s preparation… I was not talking about only ‘on campus’. Many earthquakes happen during the night or early morning while people are in their dorm or out of campus apartments. I meant the preparation for their students in the nearby area not just on campus. (i.e. Did the student receive email or get info. at orientation about procedures that in case things happen and they won’t be able to get food/water, the university will prepare things in which building and which alternative building in case the first one is damaged; In case electronic communication is lost, how do they provide their names to the university to announce they are safe to parents…) Like I said, I am not just talking about buildings, people need to care about the type of procedural plans as well. One always prepare for the worst and hope to have no need of using it rather than don’t prepare.</p>

<p>Berkeley researcher said California is overdue with a much larger earthquake: (start from 1 minute)
<a href=“California earthquake prompts calls for early-warning system | Fox News”>http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/26/california-earthquake-prompts-calls-for-early-warning-system/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It is fine If Stanford is prepared (if students or parents already received information about what to do and where to go by now, otherwise I say they are unprepared). If they didn’t, the current Stanford parents should push for it. I probably won’t need it giving my daughter isn’t a student there. But if she got in, I will certainly call or ask at orientation… to make sure they have plans.</p>

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<p>Did some digging and found this on emergency procedures. But not clear about what they want students to do.</p>

<p><a href=“http://parents.stanford.edu/newsletter/pdfs/Parents_Newsletter_F07_FINAL.pdf”>http://parents.stanford.edu/newsletter/pdfs/Parents_Newsletter_F07_FINAL.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>@Findmoreinfo‌ I’m no expert on emergency procedures here, but you might want to take a look at this document, which provides an overview of protocol for many different types of emergencies (earthquakes included).</p>

<p><a href=“http://web.stanford.edu/dept/EHS/prod/general/erprep/plans/UNIVPLAN2003.pdf”>http://web.stanford.edu/dept/EHS/prod/general/erprep/plans/UNIVPLAN2003.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You’ll notice that there are both general emergency assembly areas, and emergency food & water stores located in several locations all across campus. One of the very first things we learn during New Student Orientation is where our dorm’s general emergency assembly area is, and students are reminded where these are by way of fire drills. The University also requires students to register an emergency contact number and email, and the majority of us choose to receive such messages from the AlertSU system via text. This system informs students, faculty, and staff of, say, a gas leak location within seconds. In the event of an earthquake, I imagine any pertinent information and further instructions would be distributed through AlertSU, as well as other secondary sources.</p>

<p>I would also like to point out that we have a wide variety of our own first responders–the Stanford Sheriff, our own fire department, multiple forms of campus and hospital security, public service/public safety personnel, paramedical teams, a dedicated Stanford campus EMT service, etc.–that have a very noticeable everyday presence on campus, and both the Stanford Hospital AND Lucile Packard’s Children’s Hospital located right on campus are some of the top level-1 trauma centers in the country.</p>

<p>If you have further questions, I believe you’ll find better answers by contacting our Environmental Health & Safety department, rather than asking on a forum primarily dedicated to precollege preparation, application assistance, and general college life questions.</p>

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<p>^ Very nice information!!! Thank you! </p>

<p>I think the emergency alert text message is very helpful. My university has sign-ups for emergency alerts as well, but we found out they were sent in batches and have about 10 seconds differences at most (my spouse’s and my phone rang at different times, I guess it’s because we have different last names). For hurricanes, etc. minutes-prior notice is good enough, for earthquakes, they said the best now is to detect and alert 10 seconds prior. Stanford is very strong on tech. area and I believe you all will have a way to overcome that delay issue.</p>

<p>Thank you very much!</p>

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<p>By the way, with respect to your post #62, if what you say about your daughter is true, I see no reason why she would not be a strong candidate. True, Stanford cares a lot about having a diverse student body in every sense of the word. So yes, that includes ethnicity, but it also includes intellectual & academic passions, artistic pursuits, personal hobbies, social perspectives, personality, and so much more. No one can do anything to change their genetic inheritance (yet), but we all have have considerable control over everything else about us–and this certainly isn’t just important for a simple college app. While she may not be part of an underrepresented group in this one particular category, I’d wager that she is in several other categories. Make that apparent in the application, no matter which institutions she ultimately applies to; no one should be obnoxiously boastful about it, but everyone should take pride in what makes them unique.</p>

<p>To put it in perspective, the percentages of non-hispanic whites nationally and at Stanford are 77.7% and 37%, respectively; compare this to 5.3% and 19.1% for Asian Americans. From a <em>purely</em> statistical point of view–and therefore NOT representative my point of view–it could be (and has been) argued that non-hispanic whites have it much worse than Asian Americans, all other things being equal. Sources: <a href=“http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html”>http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html&lt;/a&gt;; <a href=“Stanford Common Data Set | University Communications”>http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2013&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As for anecdotal evidence, one of my very best friends here is an unhooked Asian American who claims to have had sub-par grades and test scores, and regularly tells me that she doesn’t consider herself “a very good student compared to other Stanford students.” Like you mentioned, she also was very conscious of her ethnic background, and worried that it could diminish her chances. But she credits her personal statement for her acceptance, where she was able to showcase her outlook on life/personality and the events that led to it. She believes this was by far the most compelling part of her application; I have not personally read it, but, knowing what I do of her, I would not doubt it for a second. If she hadn’t taken a leap of faith and applied despite these perceived disadvantages…well, I’d be down one best friend.</p>

<p>Marking a particular race/ethnicity box is no more automatic rejection than a 2400 SAT is an automatic acceptance (I believe we reject something like 80% of 2400’s). If, after looking at the school on paper and in person, your daughter decides that Stanford could be where she wants to spend four years of her life, I really, really encourage her to apply :slight_smile: I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: She stands so much to gain and nothing to lose, save a relatively small application fee and maybe some wounded pride.</p>

<p>Best of luck to her as she starts on the Common App!</p>

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<p>@Data10‌ </p>

<p>I enjoyed reading your post, but i thought i’d mention the following:</p>

<p>Athletes tend to pull down test score, rank and GPA stats at every school. </p>

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<p>Radiata16,
“If, after looking at the school on paper and in person, your daughter decides that Stanford could be where she wants to spend four years of her life, I really, really encourage her to apply I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: She stands so much to gain and nothing to lose, save a relatively small application fee and maybe some wounded pride.”</p>

<p>Thanks for the encouragement. She decided to apply in her senior year the first time she stood on Stanford campus. :slight_smile: She is just trying to be herself and not to worry about molding herself to fit Stanford. She will continue to do what she loves, apply and see if Stanford and her match naturally. </p>

<p>However, disadvantage for Asians in college admissions in general, not just Stanford, is no secreat. Caltech takes everything into consideration and leave race out, they have 40%+ Asians in their freshman class - if college admissions follow this we will see the same pattern in almost every school. (I described the Asian second generations in my very first post on CC if you are interested.) The current caliber of second generation Asian Americans won’t last forever, it will pass (in maybe 20 years). Then you will have outstanding second generation African Americans whose parents came from Africa. That will be about it. By that time, affirmative action will be eliminated automatically. But that is too long to wait.</p>

<p>Enough said. I don’t think we need to get into the race debate. <em>smile</em></p>

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<p>To me it’s the weather. I love the cold, rainy season, and the fact that Stanford is in sunny California is a downer for me. I live in Texas and before that, Florida. So I want a change in weather and I don’t think Stanford will be able to give me that :frowning: It’s still a fantastic school though</p>