What I've learned about full-ride scholarships

Parents Forum
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<p>I want to second the posters who stress that it really depends on what you’re planning to do after graduating college and also what sort of person you are. A 3rd tier school is just fine if you’re planning on med school, most PhD’s, etc–IF you work hard and find one or two professors who are willing to go to bat for you. This will mean, again, that you work hard. It is far better, in fact, to go to a lower tier school and work hard and find your connections, than to go to a top school and coast. I’ve seen many many students who essentially squander their Ivy education by goofing off and/or not taking full advantage of what it has to offer. In my own case, I went to Michigan State (3rd tier, I think?) but went to the Honors College and took grad level classes. I was accepted to a prestigious grad school for my PhD (which I turned down, for stupid reasons unrelated to the college). </p>

<p>HOWEVER, there is another huge factor. Class and cronyism. Unspoken is the fact that Ivies have a HUGE amount of wealth. If you’re socially smart you can manuever your way to a key internship or job through connections and cronyism (not med or law school). This is a plain fact, although I realize distasteful to our illusions of a meritocracy. Cronyism is much harder in a state school or 4th tier school (but not impossible). So if that’s your goal - if your goal is to latch on to a ‘pal’ and enter into a key business position, a bank, a hard-to-find museum job or whatever–anything that isn’t really meritocracy, but is in fact simple who-do-you-know - then an Ivy is going to be a good ‘investment.’ But that’s only if you’re that kind of person and if you want that kind of job. For med school, it’s completely irrelevant. To be honest, it’s even irrelevant where you go to med school, if you’re after a decent job. I know plenty of doctors who make a half a million who went to ‘regular’ med schools and are now heads of their departments and/or happy in their jobs. These people work hard and have excellent people skills. </p>

<p>So, to sum it up:
If you want to latch on through cronyism and you’re in a field where cronyism gives you a huge leg-up, an Ivy is pretty important. Again, I realize this is distasteful to state outright,but it’s reality.<br>
If you want a career in a field that is mostly meritocratic, such as medicine, then it honestly doens’t matter in the least where you go to school, as long as you work hard.<br>
If you want an undergrad experience with a lot of bright people, then look at the average SATs and see where you fit in. This is a good rule of thumb. But honestly, you’ll find bright people anywhere, as long as you hustle and work hard. On the other hand, it’s harder to find bright people in an out of the way fourth tier school, than a top Ivy. Harder, not impossible.<br>
In short, college is the beginning of how life is. Work hard, and you will be rewarded. But also, if you’re rich and connected to cronies, you will find it a lot easier to get ‘ahead’ in many non-meritocratic or semi-meritocratic careers. If that’s your goal and you’re willing to do that.</p>

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<p>I’m a student currently caught in the money vs. “prestige” fight
My first choice is Smith, but unless some major money comes through it will be the Univeristy of Alabama for me (nothing to scoff at) where I’ll get full tuition.
I see Alabama as potentially having more opportunities just because of it’s size. There, I could truly be seen as outstanding and excel. At Smith, I would be one of many bright girls (not that this is bad), but the opportunities might be harder to come by</p>

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<p>With a couple of minor exceptions I find this to be a fairly accurate account of the “way it works.”</p>

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<p>I agree that for some career choices, public school undergrad diploma is not a problem at all. In addition to the medical field mentioned above, I hear that law school admission is very number driven: good LSAT score, high GPA (regardless of the school: it’s better to get 3.9 from State U, than 3.3 from top Ivy). Also, engineering degree, same story. State U honor program, a great grad degree, and you are all set (this is my field, and I was on the hiring side many times, so I should know).</p>

<p>However, I hear in no uncertain term that if you want to find a job at a top echelon Wall Street firm right after you graduate from college, the “name brand” is very important. They have “target schools” they recruit from, and if you are not going to one of the target schools, then it’s really an uphill battle, regardless of how well you are doing there. Not impossible, but VERY DIFFICULT. Worse yet, almost all of these target schools are elite private schools. Even the very best public schools are rather iffy for really competitive fields like investment banking. This was one of the two reason why we let S1 turned down a full ride offer from a good public school, in favor of a private school that was solidly considered one of the target in anybody’s list. </p>

<p>If anybody is interested in the “target schools” for IB, there is a good forum on CC “investment banking” that has related threads (meaning, questions about what schools are targets) running at any given time.</p>

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<p>Have you considered applying to UA’s CBHP program? If so, and you haven’t visited the campus yet, it would be a good idea to make an appt with the CBH director, Dr. Sharpe. Getting some “face time” with Dr. Sharpe and letting him know how interested you are in the program is very helpful for getting selected as a finalist and for getting selected as a member.</p>

<p>also…depending on the major that you write down on your UA application, you may also get some departmental money. My DS2 got full tuition $$, plus he gets $2500 a year from Engineering. That pays for about 1/3 of his housing in honors dorms.</p>

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<p>I have an alternative view point about wall street jobs. Sure sounds that way on CC I realize, and no doubt an edge if one is not majoring in business. But I have tons of counter examples, including some of my own students who attended a public school you probably do not even know. The top banks have been hiring at 100s of schools for many years. Moreover, you could also go to a state school, work five years, get an MBA at a myriad of higher tier business schools (have a look at Harvard’s current class for example to see what schools they attended for undergrad…including U of Calgary, Edinburgh, Arizona State…).</p>

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<p>I agree with you: there are multiple paths to the destination. I was talking about statistical odds. I am also told that within the IB field, back office positions and regional office positions are much more open to kids not attending target schools. However, if you want to get a NYC job on the front line, the odds are very much against you if you are from non target school (of course, like everything else, there are always exceptions). Getting an MBA from a great program like Wharton definitely put you back on track, but it’s a detour, since the kids who started out at the frontline NYC IB position and then get an MBA to boot are already way ahead of the game by the time you get out of the MBA program.</p>

<p>This whole pecking order thing in the IB field surprised me. In the high tech field, there is no such amazing premium on the undergrad “prestige” degree. I was on the hiring side at one of the most prestigious tech firms in the world, and I had absolutely no bias in favor of or against candidates because they did not go to MIT, CMU, CalTech, etc. A newly minted college grad from a solid state university engineering program with good reputation with good grades, good recommendations, and good internship etc had NO difficulty competing for the very best positions available in my company. </p>

<p>I think this whole diploma prestige and so called “target school” thing in IB is crazy and outdated, and would love to seem them become more flexible, but alas, that’s their game.</p>

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<p>Hmm I didn’t read through this whole thread… I have a 4.0, a 33 act, and rank 1/101 in my class, my mom is a stay at home mom and my dad is a self employed attorney, I think he made like 75k last year after work expenses, but my parents aren’t going to pay anything for my education.
So are there any schools where I would automatically or likely qualify for a full ride scholarship?</p>

<p><em>edit</em> oops, I just looked up and realized this is the parents thread, I hope it’s ok if I posted here?</p>

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<p>If you’re a National Merit Finalist there are MANY schools where you can get good aid. Go to the Financial Aid Forum and look for Keilexandra’s thread on Good NMF schools. If you are NOT a NMF there are some schools with good merit for your stats. U Alabama, U Miss, Tulane, U Arizona. Check those out (or Mom2collegekids will probably post with more info soon :).</p>

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<p>Hi Ellen (and Erin’s Dad LOL :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>You have great stats. You would get free out-of state tuition from The University of Alabama with your stats, if you apply by Dec 1 for the Presidential Scholarship. EZ application for the school and for the scholarship. You will get it as long as you apply on time and have your scores and transcript sent. You would also likely get other scholarships, too, depending on your major.</p>

<p>I have 2 sons at Alabama (one got the NMF scholarship and the other got the Presidential and engineering scholarships). It is an awesome school, strong academics, beautiful campus, 4 honors programs. </p>

<p>Here’s the info and link for Alabama [The</a> University of Alabama](<a href=“Page Not Found | The University of Alabama”>http://www.ua.edu/)</p>

<p>Here’s a link for the Virtual Tour [Virtual</a> Campus Tour - The University of Alabama](<a href=“Page Not Found | The University of Alabama”>Page Not Found | The University of Alabama)</p>

<p>Here’s a link about honors housing (scroll down for more pics) [Housing</a> & Residential Communities - The University of Alabama](<a href=“http://housing.ua.edu/ridgecrestsouth.cfm]Housing”>http://housing.ua.edu/ridgecrestsouth.cfm)</p>

<p>Here’s the link for the scholarship…</p>

<p>Presidential Scholar
An out-of-state first-time freshman student who meets the December 1st scholarship priority deadline, has a 32-36 ACT or 1400-1600 SAT score and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a Presidential Scholar and will receive the value of out-of-state tuition for four years. </p>

<p>[Out-of-State</a> Scholarships - Undergraduate Scholarships - The University of Alabama](<a href=“http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html]Out-of-State”>http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html)</p>

<p>What will you likely major in?</p>

<p>If you are a NMSF, there are more scholarships available.</p>

<p>Also, if you’re not a NMSF, you could apply for the Fellows Experience and perhaps get the Academic Elite scholarship which is a complete full ride plus stipend.</p>

<p>I realize that your parents don’t feel that they can afford college. Have you asked if they can help with anything…such as books or food?</p>

<p>UA also hires smart students to be tutors, so there are part-time job opportunities for you to earn spending money.</p>

<p>What AP classes have you taken? UA gives generous AP credit.</p>

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<p>We got a letter with the NMSF offer from UA. It’s incredible…the best we’ve seen.</p>

<p>Of course, my S has no interest in going there…</p>

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<p>Did you apply as a safety? :)</p>

<p>Have you looked at the online tour? :)</p>

<p>Would it be possible to actually visit the campus - on a school day preferably?</p>

<p>An out-of-state student who goes to UA recently posted on CC that… “UA is recruiting for the best and brightest students nationwide. For many students, it is the money that first interests us in Alabama, we visit, and then we get hooked.”</p>

<p>My NMF son didn’t have an interest in attending “any southern schools” (his words), until he visited. My younger son used to say…“I’m not going to the same school as my brother!” But, after being on the campus a few times because of his older brother, it turned out that Alabama was the ONLY school that my younger son wanted to apply to. LOL</p>

<p>Have your son look at the Computer-Based Honors Program. This is a very selective honors program at UA (it only accepts 40 students). This exclusive group of 40 students are chosen from throughout the country. This isn’t a computer science group. These kids are from a wide variety of majors…pre-med, pre-law, engineering, English, chemistry, etc. The average ACT of these kids is 33. <a href=“http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/index.php?page=uhp[/url]”>http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/index.php?page=uhp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I wrote more about the 4 different UA Honors programs at <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063376745-post4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063376745-post4.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If you’re having any problems with these links let me know. Thanks.</p>

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<p>^^UA is LOVELY
seriously, I thought of it as “just a safety” but I seriously am considering attending. Everyone is super friendly and it has EVERYTHING</p>

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<p>Alabama also makes wonderful offers for the National Hispanic Scholars. He has basically been promised a free ride if he applies. </p>

<p>There is a discussion on the hispanic students’ forum about the very generous offers from UA. Unfortunately, for many hispanics living in the west and north, there is a fear of going to the deep south. My son won’t even consider it but I think I may force the issue, make him apply and then take him for a road trip south in the spring. We live in norther virginia, but you can feel the antagonism in the suburbs of dc and in rural areas if you speak spanish in public. Really…people hiss and roll their eyes when we speak in Spanish together in public. My son was absolutely shocked by the open antagonism against hispanics when he spent a summer in Richmond. Relations between the hispanic and black students at school are tense … partly gang problems on both sides, but it corrupts a lot of interaction. Any thoughts on U of A and acceptance of hispanics?</p>

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<p>^^^^</p>

<p>Sorry I didn’t see your question earlier.</p>

<p>I haven’t heard of any antagonism or problems with acceptance of Hispanics at UA. I know of no problems between blacks and Hispanics on UAs campus. No problems between any groups.</p>

<p>I’ll pm this to you in case you don’t see this.</p>

<p>Tuscaloosa is not “old South” in behavior (which is what your son may have experienced in Richmond). Actually there are a huge number of Hispanics living in Alabama. </p>

<p>I know that our Catholic diocese mentions its need to increase Spanish Masses at our parishes. I can’t remember the total number of Hispanics that the bishop mentioned, but I was surprised by how high the number is. :)</p>

<p>The larger cities in Alabama and the university have so many “transplants” due to high-tech companies that these places are much more cosmopolitan than they were 15 years ago.</p>

<p>Do try to visit UA in the spring…preferably when classes are in session. I’m sure that your son will be impressed. </p>

<p>Let me know how it goes.</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>Does anyone have any info on the black students on campus?</p>

<p>Is Alabama deep south in mentality still?</p>

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<p>I don’t have any info specific to the black students on campus but it is definitely a campus dominated by the Greek scene so make sure you’re comfortable with that. </p>

<p>My daughter is in a sorority in another state and her Greek friends felt unwelcome at a couple of Greek events they attended after a football game. As a matter of fact, one girl asked them not so kindly to leave. DD wasn’t there but this is the story told to her.</p>

<p>I agree that the Honors college is the way to go at Alabama as long as you’re comfortable in a heavily Greek environment. There is a very strong legacy there where the Greek organizations begin recruiting at the local high school level and it’s known that it’s generally much more difficult for out of staters to break through that. The admissions counselor recruiting at my daughter’s high school even told us as much when we visited the campus.</p>

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<p>*Does anyone have any info on the black students on campus?</p>

<p>Is Alabama deep south in mentality still? *</p>

<p>No. There are 12% African Americans on campus. :)</p>

<p>Many of the in-state kids at UA are the children of transplants because so many high-tech companies have moved to the state over the last 15-20+ years. Also, 40% of the kids are from OOS, so they wouldn’t have “deep old Alabama” roots, either. </p>

<p>Now, can I say that there aren’t any kids with racist attitudes? No, I couldn’t say that about ANY campus in the US (no one could). </p>

<p>Now, I wouldn’t say the same about Mississippi St (sorry to offend anyone), but when I was there last week, I felt that there was a strong black/white division. Maybe I’m wrong, but I got the feeling that the white kids mostly eat at one venue and the black kids mostly eat at another (I was VERY bothered by that). You would NOT find that kind of craziness at Alabama. I have been in all the eating venues at Bama, and everyone eats in them.</p>

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<p>I didn’t believe that stat, so I looked it up. Sure enough, 37% OOS. (Close enough.) That’s unusually high for a state school. It makes me ever-more-optimistic about my son’s chances of enjoying it there. He has applied for admission and is now working on the scholarship application. Since he’s a National Merit semifinalist and therefore guaranteed full tuition, I’m beginning to think we could be chanting “Roll Tide” next year.</p>

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<p>good info everyone thanks!</p>