<p>You are a very good daughter, swissmiss. Congratulations to you and your family.</p>
<p>^Thanks, Jāadoube. There are lots of us out there, probably one/some at your house too! 
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<p>So much of a personās success depends on what they DO, rather than where they went to college. The middle sister in our family went to Dartmouth (they gave us financial aid back then) because it ended up being in the same price range as her other admit choices. Most of her college friends are working or in grad schools, but one is not successful at all. This guy has not worked ONE day at any paying job since graduation last June (08) and couldnāt go to law school this fall because his Dartmouth GPA was too low and he couldnāt get one professor to write a good letter of recommendation. Four years of college and he couldnāt get one positive letter??? His LSAT scores were high enough for him to teach an LSAT prep course, but nothing else in his application would get him admitted to law school. And itās not like heās doing time in the Peace Corps or off to some third world country helping people. He lives with his family. Yeah, his diploma says Dartmouth, but his actions say heās lazy or apathetic. Whatever the reason, he doesnāt seem to work up to his ability. In his case, going to Dartmouth might not make any difference at all in his future unless he gets motivated and starts working to get a decent letter of recommendation.</p>
<p>Congrats, swissmiss! Iām truly sorry for all youāve had to go through, but you seem to have tremendous strength. I, too, chose a not-too-well-known out of state state u that came with similar merit aid (COA of around 7,500 before outside scholarships), and, so far (Iām a rising senior), Iāve been really happy with my school. Iām confident youāll do well! :)</p>
<p>swissmiss3 and MikeWozowski - For bright students, University of Arkansas has money, lots of money. In 2003 or maybe 2002, the Walton Foundation gave the University 300 MILLION dollars! It was the largest donation ever to any state school at that point. They had already given a substantial amount to the business school prior to this. </p>
<p>The foundation laid down some very specific ground rules. 100 Million to beef up graduate education. 200 Million to go to Undergraduate Honors education outside of Business. The money could not be used for faculty salaries directly, nor to fund faculty research directly, nor for administrative overhead. They wanted it to help the STUDENTS, both graduate and undergraduate. </p>
<p>This took many forms and of course ways were available for administrative costs and faculty to share in this. For instance, as part of the graduate plan, library holdings were beefed up and new databases subscribed to. Some faculty research efforts were funded IF students were a major component of the research effort . Professors who did extra work with Honors students (teaching breakout sessions, mentoring, etc) could have their salaries augmented. </p>
<p>So yes, swissmiss3, they really mean it when they say we can help you fund any educationally related goal you have if you are part of the Honors College. That can include trips to the National Archives in DC or overseas for primary source research. More than one student has done close to two years in different out of the US locations for schooling paid for by the University of Arkansas. They fund things that normally only graduate students would have a shot at. And, professors know that being involved with Honors students results in additional monetary resources for themselves or their research so they are are usually willing to make themselves available to undergraduates. </p>
<p>The school is lovely with lots of outdoor type recreational activities in the surrounding area, the people are some of the friendliest and least pretentious anywhere, plenty of very bright professors and students on campus (and yes, there are some not so bright ones), big time athletics, as well as lots of highly respected speakers as well as lots of music acts brought in.</p>
<p>Would I have been happy if one of my kiddos had chosen the University of Arkansas? Well, my oldest had reasonable scholarship money at both top 25 and top 50 schools and her choice came down to the last day. While she choose another school, it came down to the University of Arkansas and one other school and it was a difficult choice. Prestige didnāt sway her decision. Geography and connections with a professor in her intended major did (still her mentor). Having just completed four years at a school she loved, she confided that she knows she could have been equally happy at Arkansas and done amazing things there also and all her angst just wasnāt worth it. So swissmiss3, while you are understandably disappointed that the choice had to come down to financials, you seem like the type of person who can make the most of what the Honors College at the University of Arkansas can offer you. Be sure to use the resources and the people they have available to make this a great freshman year. Have fun, enjoy the scenery, and donāt look back!</p>
<p>And MikeWozowski, definately put it on your list for a look see. They offer close to 100 fellowships out of the Honors college that come close to a full ride for motivated students and many more out of the financial aid office that bring the cost way down.</p>
<p>Yea for posts on U Arkansas!</p>
<p>My sonās best friend just got back from a college tour, which included Christian Brothers, Rhodes, St. Louis University and U of Arkansas. He plans to major in engineering.</p>
<p>They loved U of Arkansas!</p>
<p>Friend is a good student, not in the āhonors trackā, a GPA of 3.6, but scores very well. Got an ACT of 32, SAT around 2040. Arkansas strongly encouraged him to apply to Honors program. </p>
<p>They were also told of the neighboring state tuition offer. Weāre in Louisiana!</p>
<p>A good friend of mine is from Arkansas, has lots of family still there, owns property and ālivesā there many times a year. Picked her brain about the school this morning.</p>
<p>She said the college has an excellent reputation, never heard a bad thing about it, not the partying, drinking college that youād expect, especially at an SEC school. She has many relatives that went there, even some that went on to graduate from med school and become doctors.</p>
<p>She also said that it was gorgeous there, in the Ozarks, and that they get snow!</p>
<p>I happened to sit next to a UA prof on a flight recently. He told me about the amount of money WalMart was donating to the business school, and because of that funding, in his mind, they had some of the top teaching talent in the country. Good choice Swissmiss.</p>
<p>Hi! Iām not here to agree or disagree with anyone here, though I am leaning towards going to a tier 3 or tier 4 college (but preferably a tier 2) and then getting a full ride (but tier 2 is probably pretty unlikely). My GPA is weighted 4.22 and unweighted 3.72 and I took the SAT and got a 2040 but Iām going to retake it and hoping to get around 2300. My SAT subject tests is Math II 800 and Bio: 780 so obviously, these are not very good academic statistics. My volunteer work is 300+ but I donāt have a lot of ECs worth mentioning - so itās pretty likely that if I do apply for a full ride itāll be a tier 3 or tier 4 that will offer me oneā¦</p>
<p>My question is, I want to become a doctor, but would going to a tier 3 or tier 4 college affect my chances in going to a good graduate school, or medical program or whatever the future holds? Will this shortchange my chances because the schools arenāt that well-known?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Trust me, an 800 on the Math 2 and 780 in Bio are very, very, good academic statisticsā¦ If you pop that 2300 you will have a wide range of merit offers available at tier 1 schoolsā¦</p>
<p>^ Agreed. However, I am dubious of your chances of going from 2040 to 2300+; in the higher ranges, 300-point increases are nearly unheard of.</p>
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<p>Med school, law school, and business school admissions are mostly a matter of undergraduate GPA and test scores (MCAT, LSAT, or GMAT); where you went to school doesnāt matter much. PhD program admissions are largely a matter of the strength of the department where you obtained your undergraduate education, research experience, GRE scores, and letters of recommendation.</p>
<p>A word of encouragement: I got a bachelorās degree in mathematics with a general science minor from a Tier 3 school. I applied to Ph.D. programs in engineering (note: not what I majored in as an undergraduate). My undergraduate GPA was just under 3.6 at the time I applied. I didnāt do cutting-edge research as an undergraduate, just basic laboratory assisting. Letters of recommendation were excellent but based more on my personal attributes than my research or exposure to my chosen field, which, again, were nearly nill. My GRE score was 2190/2400.</p>
<p>Result: I was accepted at two graduate schools in the US News top ten in that field, and another big-name school as well. Attended with a research assistantship that paid full costs plus a stipend that was plenty for a young guy to live on.</p>
<p>The lesson: Grades and test scores important. Where you got your bachelorās degree not so important. If taking the scholarship at a lesser school feels better than paying a bunch for a ābetterā school, then go for it! Your performance and aptitude will count for more than the name of the school, come time for grad school. (Some of my fellow students at the Tier 3 were admitted to medical school as well.)</p>
<p>great post, thanks for the info.</p>
<p>Just to say thanks to all who responded to my question :)</p>
<p>Any chance this thread could be hooked to a sticky at the top of this section of the forum? There are LOTS of folks asking about favorable financial aid at schools and I know that I personally have referred several to the search function for this thread. In this economic time, it would be great if this could be have a stick pin at the topā¦so that others could benefit from the information in this thread.</p>
<p>IĀll try to contribute to the discussion as a incoming graduate student straight from bachelor degree. I consider myself an excellent student, and got 97th percentile score on GMAT (730).</p>
<p>I know USNWR rankings has bigger authority when it comes to evaluating schools than, say, even the Department of Education. Their rankings play a big role on name recognition, especially when it comes to non-World Famous-Ivy-ish universities.</p>
<p>Moreover, I strongly believe that one of the best collective achievements of Higher Education industry is to have promote, successfully, the idea that each single student, regardless of its credentials, aspirations and talents, has a single Ābest fitĀ college to where he/she should go whenever accepted. IĀm totally bound for an academic career, and I do not criticize recruitment officers for doing that, but I recognize that colleges have put the ĀfitĀ card too often on the table, which makes parents and students to compare less other aspects of educational and financial offers from different institutions once one decided that college ĀxĀ is the perfect fit for him/her.</p>
<p>In this context, I think that college selection in regard of merit aid (the whole idea of attending an overall less prestigious college for a far lower or no cost at all) should better be assessed taking in consideration further professional and career plans the student wants to take AFTER college.</p>
<p>IĀm all in favor of the idea that if a HS senior is too undecided about his/her future to know whether he/she wants do pursue a career in academia, business management, technical professions (engineering, architecture, therapist etc.), education and so on, it FAR more reasonable (financially and timely) to get an year off rather than enroll and spend tons of $$ to figure out at least a general idea of what one wants for his/her life. Top-notch students with stellar credentials (Ivy-bound to say so) can benefit of being exposed to a myriad of academic content and then choose his/her path; generally, I think gap year is cheaper and more effective on the long-term.</p>
<p>Assuming that a student already have a loose and general idea of his/her plans, it should be taken into consideration:</p>
<p>A) brand recognition (i.e., USNWR tier, Ivy status etc., NCAA-I status) play a very different role depending on the career you later want to pursue. If one wants to become a banker, trader, broker or other high-profile professional in Finance, attending a top-notch (the best you can get into) institution is as helpful as possible, as it will give you a giant advantage in entry job at premier banks and so.</p>
<p>B) if plans include a career where Graduate School attendance is expected or beneficial, it makes a lot of sense to save in undergraduate education and spend in Graduate School for a M.A. or M.Sc. Being a star student from a non-top university can bring some advantages on Graduate School selection also. The game field of graduateĀs admission is far more leveled than undergraduate admission. Read posts on the graduate version of CC (The Grad Cafe) and you will see how many people come from universities with low brand recognition and end in top graduate programs.</p>
<p>C) shift focus from university-tier to student-tier. Take a few weeks to investigate and identify the ranges of SAT and GRE for admitted students Ā many universities publish them straightforward -, and instead of asking ĀAm I good enough for this schoolĀ, evaluate how would you fit in the student body if admitted. If you fell in the upper percentiles of admitted students, chances are that you could manage not only to get aid (something discussed here) but also become kind of an star student if you try hard, getting into honors, qualifying for a lot of rank-based scholarships, drawing special attention from departments and professors in the late stages of B. Sc.; all conditions that may benefit you immensely later on the road. This special attention could compensate for an inferior quality of faculty (beware, however, of which ĀfacultyĀ is really going to teach you) or peer group (class). Being top student in university will also mean, to some extent, priority in getting work study spots, study abroad placements etc. DonĀt underestimate leverage you can get from being top-notch student in good, albeit not Āfirst-tierĀ University.</p>
<p>D) stop thinking in universities as a whole body and focus a little more on department-wide analysis. Except for the very top universities, different departments have different reputations, a given university classified as 3rd tier could well have undistinguished programs in Social Sciences but a strong, top 10 department, in Geology and certain fields of Engineering. If you have a clue about what would you like to study, you can start looking after departments with close attention, and find interesting opportunities. Departments with considerably higher reputation than overall university (assuming it is neither a diploma mill nor a team with attached classrooms) can offer good education at a fraction of the full price in other places, because you can take advantage of merit aid a use it for majoring in a stronger department.</p>
<p>E) choose major more carefully than youĀd do at a top university. Absence of brand recognition can affect you more in non-traditional or wide-open majors than in close-professional related ones.</p>
<p>If we want to have a chance at full scholarship, do we have to apply for that seperately from the school application or are all applicants immediately put through the process of having the chance to get full scholarship?</p>
<p>zhuang
that process will vary from school to school.some will be automatically considered, some need a separate app.You will need to read their financial aid/scholarship pages. also consider large state flagship public Uās with Honors Colleges and explore their pages (for example,Barrett Honors at Arizona State has an excellent website) take this route for college and exploit that Honors College for every perk it offers.You can come out with great results (caveat emptor,I have two who have followed this path, one now a 5th year fully funded PhD at a USNWR Top25 and the other an undergrad senior).</p>
<p>Thereās no standard procedure. You should call or email each AdCom and ask about merti scholarships. Some colleges will, however, offer the full rides together with admission later on the game.</p>
<p>you should also track the due dates as application deadlines for merit scholarships may be due sooner than you think. keep in mind that some merit aid is awarded on a first come, first serve basis. also remember that some schools may require separate applications for admission into their honors colleges or honors programs. these are both in addition to the admissions applications and admissions supplementals. lots of dates to keep track of so starting a spreadsheet is helpful. you also want to know if they allow stacking of scholarships or not.</p>
<p>As a student, my problem with going to a 3rd or 4th tier school would be more about atmosphere than academics. When I looked for schools, intellectual-ness was an important thing, because I wanted to go somewhere where I would fit in better than in high school, and I would worry that a 3rd or 4th tier school wouldnāt have as many students interested in learning for the sake of learning, etc. as a higher ranked school would.</p>
<p>It depends on the student though, and how easily he/she would make friends, how common his/her interests were among other students, etc. Confidence would be a big thing, I think.</p>