<p>Sometimes career decisions are made with regard to the necessity of taking certain classes (or traditional work-day schedules) that involve getting out of bed in the morning or wearing a tie.</p>
<p>There are worse things ways to choose careers--working conditions (including clothing) do indeed separate many careers.</p>
<p>S1, who has wanted a military career since he could talk, chose not to apply to the Academies because he didn't feel he would have a competetive application (no varsity sport, not Pres. of any group, etc....just great Stats and Recs). The NROTC recruiter thought he would be very competitve for ROTC scholarship. So he focused his efforts on that, got the 4 yr. scholarship and is thriving in the large active Battalion at our State university. I would also add that even though he is at a school of 25,000, his major is in one of the smallest colleges at the University. He was the only entering freshman this year with his exact major and so is his advisor's only freshman advisee. His advisor knows him and has plenty of time for actual advice! Also got a merit aid scholarship from within the college. Just goes to show that it is possible to find a small niche at a big research university.</p>
<p>PackMom, </p>
<p>That is great about your S. The NROTC folks that my son spoke with were great and made sure he understood the skills officers from ROTC programs gain from their environment that Academy grads sometimes lack. Ultimately, he chose USMMA over USNA in part based on the insight he gained from the visits to a number of NROTC units as well as much time at KP and Annapolis.</p>
<p>Continued good luck to your son.</p>
<p>Anxiousmom and HImom - Our children will form the first afternoon brigade! Mine's the same way.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Anxiousmom, how does your child get to school if he can't get out of bed before noon? Just curious because my kids have a LOT of trouble rising too.
[/quote]
LOL! I should have been clearer. He is capable of getting out of bed before noon (and does on school days!), but he never CHOOSES to get out bed before noon, if the choice is his. Saturday starts at about 12:30p.m. for him, and goes until about 11:50 p.m. Sunday is the same. He has a very SHORT weekend because he is only awake about 12 hours a day!<br>
He does seem to hear alarm clocks when they go off. This is surprising because as a toddler, he slept right through the fire alarm going off directly above his bed.... and he also used to crawl off his mattress in the middle of the night, and I would find him in the morning fast asleep on the linoleum! He could sleep through anything.</p>
<p>How is it that our kids who sprang out of bed as youngsters cannot hardly drag themselves out of bed once they become teens?!</p>
<p>I agree with your post #109 except concerning LACs. My S's LAC has a great track record not only for Goldwaters but successful grad school admissions with fellowships like NSF, Gates, and Churchill. The students have as much opportunity to do research as they desire (senior year in some majors is focused on independent research and a thesis). In addition, many REUs at large research unis give priority to applications from students at LACs and may provide a student (if s/he's so inclined to apply) with a better quality and more intensive research experience during the summer when a high-powered PI's attention is less divided, as it would be during the regular academic year, between teaching and supervising research. It may go against conventional wisdom, but sometimes a LAC can provide a student with the best of both worlds of teaching/mentoring and research. ;)</p>
<p>I'll also put in a plug for research at LAC's. My D has gotten more research opportunities at an LAC, beginning first semester first-year, than she would have been able to get at most research univerisites, where such opportunities, if they exist, fall heavily on grad students and upperclassmen.</p>
<p>I'll join that chorus.
In my D2's experience, the research opportunities at LAC's are much better than those at larger universities, where the opportunities are absorbed by grad students. Not a universal truth, but certainly true enough.</p>
<p>With D2, we followed the OP's process to some extent, though we had slightly better stats to work with. Blessed with good public universities, our criterion was that the deal from the private or out-of-state alternative had to get the cost down the roughly that range. We were very fortunate, as she accomplished that with 3 tier 1's, and 2 of them were full rides.</p>
<p>I applaud the OP's willingness to plumb the lower tiers, which as we all know, provide great academic opportunities in the right situations. Elsewhere on the board, someone recently posted USA Today's academic All-Americans. There were a lot of tier 3's and some tier 4's (including my own alma mater) on that list.</p>
<p>weenie, you wrote about the circumstance where a family stretches for kid #1 only to have kid #2 following close behind. We have friends that are in that boat. Their #1 S was accepted at a top 15 U. They are ecstatic for him and are somehow managing to pay the EFC, which was quite a bit more than they had hoped for. Now their #2 child is a junior and will be applying for college in the fall. They are freaking because even though they know that the EFC will go down with 2 kids in college, they are barely getting by paying for the first. It is a tough thing. Not all families can afford multiple kids in college, even with financial aid. I'm hoping for a lottery win for them! </p>
<p>Eagle, re AP scores and being ahead of the game. My S who got a "full ride" at UF has said that even though he came in with alot of hours, he is planning on taking full advantage of ALL 4 years being paid for! He is loving college and is not in any hurry to get out!</p>
<p>ag54,</p>
<p>That is great for your son. I was only suggesting that there are multiple perspectives on the use of APs. One is the financial savings from using APs for credit. One way to go 4 years and use APs is to get a masters in 4 years using some of the APs to accelerate. Not sure whether that is an option at UF but it is at other schools.</p>
<p>I am also in the boat of having 2 in college starting next year. I await the actual financial aid packages with baited breath! ;-)</p>
<p>I agree that there is a lot more flexibility when a child has a lot of AP credits. Some choose to repeat the courses in college & get higher grades & an easier transition from HS to college (especially at very competititve top tiers, according to those who graduated from our kids' HS), while others choose to get a master's while pursuing their undergrad degree, while others just spend more time sampling & exploring options at college.
My son & daughter are only 2 years apart in age so will likely both be in college at the same time. It will be a stretch of us as well.</p>
<p>Lots of great input....</p>
<p>I'm a student and I applied for financial aid and scholarships myself. I applied to lots of school, all or differing prestige and tiers. At first, I applied the same tactic described at the beginning of this thread because I obviously have no money, and got full-ride offers to the 3rd and 4th tier schools I applied to, but then I realized that my education is an investment. Sure, some of the 1st tier schools didn't have full-ride scholarships, but I realized that the 1st tier schools are 1st tier for a reason: they've got resources, opportunities, prestige, outstanding degree programs, and many other things that I might not have had at a 3rd or 4th tier school. I'm not trying to argue with the original poster. I guess I'm just trying to say that maybe it's not the best idea to rule out schools that don't offer full ride scholarships, because you may be closing doors of great opportunity. Schools are getting better at financial aid these days, and a quick visit to fastweb.com will show that there are lots of outside scholarship opportunities. So I guess my final answer is to apply to all the schools you believe would really fit your interests, but also apply to outside scholarships and get those financial aid apps in early.</p>
<p>bump.......</p>
<p>I just spoke with one my clients yesterday who had blown the budget sending his son to UC - Berkeley. His son has graduated and now has a great job. My clients daugher is a high school senior and is looking at a couple second tier colleges where she can get very nice partial scholarships (both OOS, 1/2 tuition and 3/4 tuition offers). </p>
<p>There is no question that a well-respected college will help in the hunt for that first job. However, after that, its what the individual does that makes their path through life. There are plenty of reasons to pursue either avenue outlined in this thread, A) going to the best college you can and paying the $$$$, or B) getting the best education you can for the money you have available. There are many factors involved in deciding on which path is right for the individual student and family...finances, prestige, legacy, strength of major,school size, proximity to family and, as most often discussed on CC, fit.</p>
<p>Just read your post about your boys. You're my hero! Finally someone who is not willing to go broke or allow thier kids to graduate in debt up to thier eyeballs. Forbes magazine recently said that if you're not attending a top 20 LAC... don't spend the money. Go state, go merit, go Community college and transfer. Spending 20, 30, or 40k per year at a little known school is not cost effective and you will not garner a sufficient return on your investment. Many parents seem bitter toward you and without reason. Throw me a bone give me some NY/NJ New England colleges my D might look into. 1310 sat 3.8 UW GPA, in most rigorous courses, top 10%, trisport, clubs awards, etc.</p>
<p>As pro-LAC as I've become, my own sense of cost/value is in that direction. I wouldn't cut it off at "Top 20" and I always would look for total "fit" and how particular departments/majors at various colleges align with a student's interests, but my enthusiasm for LAC's starts to wane in the 30's (with exceptions like Whitman) and gets positively luke-warm in the 40's.</p>
<p>I taught at UChicago. It was awhile ago. But at that time, the research opportunities outside of the sciences for undergraduates were very close to nil. The research opportunities for working with faculty in the humanities or social sciences in the first two years WERE nil. Zero. Zippo. Never saw one. Graduate students (like me), some of the best graduate students in the country, gobbled up every possible research opportunity, and faculty wanted those graduate students because their output was greater, and their focus (less distraction from other courses) was greater, and we were PAID to do the job.</p>
<p>The opportunities that my d. has had, even in her first two years, have been vastly greater.</p>
<p>I doubt it would have otherwise been cost effective, though. By the time the school finishes up with my d., she should be totally unemployable. ;) Except that the amount we pay each semester makes us giggle. Roughly what the community college would cost us - maybe a little more, but not by much. Next year she gets to spend a year in Florence at their expense. We couldn't afford to send her to Florence by ourselves, and are very grateful. </p>
<p>She may end up homeless, but she'll remember her year in the Piazza di Signoria, and she'll be able to beg in Italian.</p>