What LACs Can We Add to the List for D20?

College Search & Selection
1

Hi everyone! I’m hoping to get some advice about my D20’s list. I’ve waited to post until we got her ACT retake score because refining it seemed like guessing until then. Her first score was a 30. But as of this morning her new composite is a 34, so I feel like it’s time to make sure we haven’t missed a school as we head into summer.

Her Preferences:
LAC
Small campus footprint
Preferably in the northeast or mid-Atlantic though she liked some schools in MN
Likely neuroscience major or minor (if not offered as major)
School needs to have dance offered to non-majors; ideally a robust offering with ballet classes and performance opportunities that are not just led by students
Does not want the school to be in the middle of nowhere and prefers being within 1.5 hours of a major city, though if it is in a cute town that also had some restaurants, a movie theater, and maybe a Target then that might be ok (Saratoga Springs and Carlisle were ok with her but pushing it a bit)
Research opportunities and faculty advising have emerged as being important to her
Wants to study abroad

Just a Little Background:
34 ACT (36R, 35E, 33M, 30S with a previous 31S)
Approx. 93.6/3.75 UW with pre-AP and AP classes
Primary EC is dance at a pre-pro studio with student company (dances 25-30 hrs a week); also did JV and Varsity dance team at school for 2 yrs
Summers have been spent with ballet-related programs plus one non-competitive admission 2-wk medical camp at a local hospital
A few ordinary leadership positions and volunteer work (60 hrs, plans to increase over the summer)
Will do a senior research project that she’ll design and start in August
She takes school and learning seriously and loves discussion classes; gets annoyed with students who aren’t prepared or who don’t pay attention
She’s not a partier and I don’t expect that to change dramatically even with the freedom of college
I don’t think she’d like a super competitive environment
She considers herself liberal politically but I could tell that she was a little thrown at Smith by the big bedsheets with various political statements hanging out of windows or on the buildings at some of the residences (not sure if that’s always like that or was just that way when we visited last year)

Current List:
Barnard (visited, loved, likely her favorite)
Vassar (visited, loved, very close second favorite)
Skidmore (visited, really liked it, would probably rank it 3rd)
Macalester (visited, really liked even though dance offerings aren’t ideal but has brand new dance facility that opened this year)
St. Olaf (visited, really liked the campus)
Dickinson (visited when school was on spring break so no students or faculty, really liked the science building and study abroad opportunities, ballet classes would be good technical training at CPYB but we’ve heard that there aren’t many opportunities to perform–need to confirm that–any info appreciated!)
Ursinus (visited when school was on spring break but the two students we met were impressive; she liked the science building, neuroscience offerings, example dorm room, and new student center being built; would get guaranteed merit of at least $35K a year if accepted, unfortunately dance offerings aren’t very strong)
Muhlenberg (visited, said she liked it, didn’t rule it out but didn’t seem that enthusiastic about it even though more dance opportunities than at a few other schools)

Visited and Did Not Click:
Smith (but agreed Northampton is so cute!)
Mt. Holyoke (campus seemed too spread out to her; just didn’t click; was a Sat visit so may have made a difference)
Bryn Mawr (she emailed the dance chair twice about meeting and never got a reply so it turned her off before we set foot on campus; would be same dance chair if went to Haverford so not likely to add that school to her list)
Carleton (actually, we didn’t get to tour because the students had left for break so only got the info session and walked around on our own)

She thinks her list is complete with these 8 schools, and maybe it is. I would have liked to have squeezed in visits to Oberlin, Connecticut College, Bates, Wheaton (MA) and maybe Goucher because they meet most of her criteria. We haven’t been able to do that with her heavy dance rehearsal schedule.

Her list seems very reach-heavy based on acceptance rates, and I’d like to add more “likely” schools but they are really hard to find with the dance component! Some of the CTCL sound great but just don’t have much dance, or if they do have dance, it’s no ballet at all and more movement studies. I know some people may not understand why the search seems to center around something she’s not planning to pursue professionally or even major in but it’s been a huge part of her life and she loves it; it feeds her soul and she’d really like to continue as long as she can, if possible. And she’d prefer to be able to do it at the school and not at a local studio so that it can be a source of friendships on campus.

So here are my questions:

  1. Are we missing some other academic "likely" schools that could work? Suggestions welcome please! I can check on dance if you don't know.
  2. Are there more LACs where the average UW high school GPA is closer to 3.5? Muhlenberg and Ursinus are around a 3.3, and Goucher is 3.1 I think. I know that her average isn't THAT far above a 3.3 but most of her 89's came her 10th grade year when she woke at 5:15 am everyday to be at 6:15 dance team practice (we lived 30 min from her HS) and went straight to the ballet studio after school, getting home at 10:00 pm, then doing homework until almost 1:00 am or later. It was a very stressful and exhausting year, and I don't think her GPA is truly reflective of her. I want to make sure she'll feel like she's with other kids who care about learning as much as she does. Someone made a comment on a thread where a student was choosing between Muhlenberg and another school that the student wouldn't likely find many students at Muhlenberg who could have been accepted at Bryn Mawr or Haverford. With the fierce competition for very limited seats and holistic admission, this seems like an unfair statement. But I guess I wonder if I'm wrong.
  3. If we were to visit another school, any feedback about prioritizing the following would be great: Oberlin, Connecticut College, Bates, Wheaton (MA) & Goucher. @mamaedefamilia Can you tell me about performing opportunities for dance at Oberlin? I know it's not heavy on ballet but are there faculty choreographed pieces for modern or contemporary?
  4. Are we missing any other reach schools besides those in Question 3 that might be worth exploring? She's very happy with her current reaches, and I know that applying to more reaches does not necessarily yield better results. But the holistic admissions process is just a HUGE unknown, and the wide net approach worked for some students this year, at least according to the very small sample size of CC posters. :-)
  5. If she were to expand her school size a bit to 5,000 or by geography a bit, are there any schools that jump out that she might like based on her current list of schools and other preferences?

I know it will be asked, so I’ll add that we are full pay. Merit would give her money for graduate/medical school and help with our other two kids after her but we’ve saved and are willing and able to pay for the school she loves.

I’ve appreciated the somewhat similar threads of @Itisatruth and @Macha2012 but I didn’t want to tag onto theirs. Sounds like we have kids with some similar interests in schools though!

Thanks for reading this long post and for any advice and info!

2

Sarah Lawrence seems like a safe option given your daughter’s stats. It’s a strong LAC which affords substantial autonomy to students in learning and has a tradition of strong arts curriculum. It seems like it would be a safety for your daughter given the average stats of the students there. It’s also near a city, has a small campus, and has plentiful research opportunities because of its focus on undergraduate education. I actually attended for a year before transferring to a more highly-regarded LAC, and would be happy to answer any questions.

3

Take a look at Conn College. They have a strong dance program

4

I think you should ask at these schools not only if a non-dance major can audition for parts in the performances but if they actually GET the parts. We had a lot of schools saying that of course non theater majors can participate in plays and other productions, but when we looked into it, parts rarely went to non-majors. Even majors had a hard time getting parts.

I think a bigger school might provide more opportunities for non-majors.

5

Some other LACs that might work are Lafayette College, Franklin & Marshall both in PA - although I’m not sure of the quality of the dance programs there.

6

Is cost a limitation? If so, have you run NPCs?

Does your state have a public LAC that is suitable?

7

No idea about dance, but Emory?

8

@ucbalumnus no, cost is not a limitation right now. Our state doesn’t have a suitable public LAC, and even if it did, she strongly desires to get out of our state and region (the south) for a variety of reasons.

Thank you @happy1 , @wisteria100 , and @Aspiringacademic for the suggestions! Sarah Lawrence was on the list at one time but we weren’t sure about how strong the science department so chose to visit Muhlenberg and Ursinus instead. We’ll take another look at it as well as the other PA schools.

@twoinanddone You make a very good point to remember. Thank you for the reality check that opportunities may not be the same for non-majors. She may decide to double major if she’s taken a lot of dance classes anyway but that’s not her current goal, so we’ll need to keep that point in mind.

9

@Driverof3 Have your daughter look at the website for NEOS ballet company, which is a serious contemporary ballet company that does interesting work. They took over the local studio in the town of Oberlin, where college students can take ballet and modern for modest cost. The open classes there are not too challenging but she could contact the director, Bobby Wisner, and ask what might be possible regarding involvement in the company.

On campus there is a student-run ballet group that puts on a show once in a while but it’s more of a fun outlet than a professional opportunity. Through the Exco program, there is tap, swing, and a few other genres. There is also a community service group that teaches dance classes in the Oberlin public schools.

Dance classes emphasize modern/contemporary with Bobby teaching a high-level ballet class once in a while for credit. The dance department also recently hired a well regarded Flamenco choreographer.

While maybe bigger than she seeks, and becoming increasingly competitive admissions-wise, Case Western in Cleveland has a pretty strong dance program. Already on your list, we were very impressed with St. Olaf. Macalester in St. Paul didn’t have significant ballet offerings but the St. Paul Ballet is close by and college students could take company classes there if they had the requisite background. That was the case two years ago, might not be so now.

We also looked in the community for dance opportunities when checking out LACs.

10

Regarding Sarah Lawrence, a look at its course catalog suggests a strong emphasis on visual and performing arts, literature, writing, history, and psychology, but many other subjects are rather limited.

11

I’d explore the ballet specific options more at St. Olaf. The feedback from a dancer in the program was that it was very contemporary focused and she no longer does pointe. It’s not a LAC and it’s not a safety, but have you considered Washington University in St. Louis? For a neuroscience it’s topnotch and their dance program is more robust than many we’ve looked at.

12

Grinnell has a very well regarded bio program and it seems to attract many of the same students who like St Olaf and Macalester. I don’t know anything about the dance program.

13

Pointe Park University in Pittsburgh has a strong dance program, with ballet. If she doesn’t like that school for academics, maybe Duquesne, with dance classes at Pointe Park? Maybe look into the possibility of classes with the Pittsburgh Ballet Theatre School (that’s just conjecture though…I have a friend with a daughter in their pre-pro program, but she’s in high school.)

Don’t know if Goucher’s academics would be strong enough for your daughter but I do know their dance program is ballet-focused (or at least it was few years ago). My daughter had one of Goucher’s ballet teachers at a summer intensive and he was quite good (and had been quite a dancer in his day).

14

Another reach school you might want to check out is Wesleyan, though if she didn’t like the liberal vibe at Smith, she will likely have the same issue at Wes. They wear their liberal heart on their sleeve, lol. Also, they don’t do merit, but they do have a 3 year program that might be a possibility to save money.

15

LACs with strong ballet offerings, as opposed to modern, are hard to find, making Dickinson all the more unusual because it has the collaboration with Central PA Ballet. Conn Coll and Bryn Mawr dance programs historically were heavily focused on modern, though I don’t know if that is still the case.

If Goucher still has strong ballet focus, as suggested above, sounds like it might be a solid safety. I’ve heard good things about Goucher generally.

16

For the interest in dance, look at Conn. Not sure if it’ll be what she wants or not. I think she has a few on the list that are safe enough that I wouldn’t feel compelled to add more.

17

I agree with CPYB/Dickinson. I doubt you’d get more rigorous, exacting classical technique anywhere (outside of a full-time pre-pro schedule or trainee program of a professional ballet company) and I think Dickinson itself would give you the opportunity to perform, though I have no idea if Dickinson’s dance groups include any classical ballet. Was just visiting Dickinson and saw that you can get a certificate at Dickinson for participating at CPYB. I think CPYB is also flexible as to how many or how few classes you take (including drop-in classes) …at any rate this was the case a couple of years ago when my daughter was still in ballet).

18

Thanks to all for the very helpful feedback and information! I really appreciate it.

I’m not sure she views herself as being a fit for WashU. When she gets their mail she says “they don’t really want me” and puts it in recycling. Until today she didn’t see herself as being a contender for that school because of her GPA and her previous ACT so never really looked at it. She allowed herself to dream about Barnard and Vassar despite her lower GPA because she believed them at the info sessions when they said they look at more than one thing. WashU would be the closest school to us so I’d be overjoyed if she’d consider it. Another big reach though.

@Darcy123 I think you are right about St. Olaf’s focus. She was told by the dance program coordinator that some dancers choose to take ballet technique class en pointe, so that’s an option if she wants to practice. She knows she likely wouldn’t perform on pointe much, if at all, but she also likes contemporary so that might be ok with her. She was very excited that they offer ballroom, which is something she’s wanted to try but has never had the time to do.

Sounds like we should try to visit Conn College. From what I’ve read, though, that seems to be a school that has a very particular vibe so I think it would be best to make sure students are there, so it may not happen until the fall.

D really liked Dickinson, even without students; we had a great tour guide who was very enthusiastic about science opportunities and study abroad who made the empty campus come to life on a dreary day. I was worried that D wouldn’t like the campus with the streets going through it but she didn’t mind. She loved how a lot of the buildings are old on the outside but modern on the inside. We were both very impressed with the school, and D was excited that there’s a chick-fil-a in town in case she needs a fix. The little things…? Dickinson/Macalester/St. Olaf were probably tied for third behind Barnard & Vassar until she visited Skidmore, where she took a ballet class and saw a performance. Of course Skidmore’s admission rate dropped again this year so it’s in the reach category.

When D was talking to a dance student at Skidmore they discussed other schools she’d visited, and this girl knew a lot about Dickinson, which she thought was a “great school.” She said that even though the advanced ballet classes are taught by CPYB faculty, Dickinson students can’t perform with CPYB, and there aren’t really other options. D will just need to follow up with the dance faculty to learn more about the Dance Theatre Group. It’s too bad if this is true because dancers like to be able to perform, not just practice. But D knows she will likely have to sacrifice a preference or two if she’s not going to go the conservatory route.

And thank you @mamaedefamilia for the info about Oberlin. I’ll have her take a look.

I wish that she had clicked with at least one other of the women’s colleges. I think they are great!

19

@Driverof3 , agree that your DD’s approach to dance sounds similar to my DS’s approach to music!

FWIW: a friend of mine went through this search with a ballet-focused non-major, academically-talented, daughter a couple of years ago. (I’ll ask my friend if she has other ideas for schools; I know Barnard was on her list too.) Daughter landed at Mount Holyoke … and promptly quit dance, because she didn’t like the class offerings as much as she expected to. This may be somewhat idiosyncratic, and I know your daughter already ruled it out based on campus – but I thought I would pass it along. If my friend has other suggestions I will add them to this thread.

We recently visited both Conn and Wheaton (MA). I would definitely suggest visiting both for “vibe,” when students are there if possible. While we didn’t ask about dance in particular at Wheaton, we got a general “performing arts at Wheaton” overview that included it. I was surprised to find that virtually all productions are department-driven. That is, unlike Vassar (the standard to which my son is now comparing everything!), where there are myriad student-driven extracurricular productions at every level, at Wheaton the kids aren’t taking that initiative. Please double-check that info, though; it was certainly true for music but I can’t guarantee it is for dance!

I thought that Conn might click with my son, but it didn’t at all “vibe”-wise. We did hear about dance, though, including in extracurriculars more along the lines of what we saw at Vassar. Can’t speak to ballet versus other types.

Lisa

20

Thank you so much for the feedback about Wheaton and Conn, @Macha2012! I got a notification yesterday that you had replied but couldn’t see your post until today for some reason.

I’d like for her to visit both Conn and Wheaton but it looks like it won’t be until fall if we want to be able to meet students. We’ll need to see if there are any other schools to add to the list nearby, or if we want to time the visits with returning to other nearby campuses for interviews (if we’re going to do that versus try for alumni interviews locally). We’re getting very good use of my Southwest companion pass!

Do you think Wheaton will remain on your son’s list or is it too early to tell? I know it’s hard when they start comparing schools to a favorite that’s emerged. I was reviewing Niche last night and the negatives that jumped out about Wheaton were about location and social life. I take those reviews with a hefty dose of salt but it’s something that I worry about for her because she’s not a partier but still likes to get out and do things if she’s not busy dancing or studying. For any school, we need to make sure that campus events are well-attended and if not, are there other things to do nearby. It’s so hard to really know that.

Thanks again!