<p>I have a friend named Adam, who graduated from Duke last year. I don't know your year, but you may know him as he is involved in a lot of the gay activities and events there. Discussing Duke, he told that getting people to get involved in any Gay-Straight activities or events was like pulling teeth. He also said that there wasn't at all a lack of homosexuality at the school itself, but a lack of individuals willing to come out because of the Southern setting. He had talked to guys who went back in the closet when they came to Duke.</p>
<p>Personally, I think that the whole homosexuality thing is crap. Don't get me wrong, I have two very good friends who are openly gay. But what I DO have a problem with is that many gays tend to flaunt their sexuality and let it define them as an individual, which I think is wrong. What's so damn special about being gay? It's just another walk of life, and if you don't want heat for it, don't flaunt in people's faces like a lot of gay guys end up doing. I don't go around shouting that I'm straight! And as far as the "Southern setting" is concerned, my friend says that he enjoys the challenge of the somewhat close-mindedness of the South, which, by the way, you can find almost anywhere you go...except for maybe San Fran! haha. Anyways, i don't think that a lack of homosexuality or open homosexuality makes a school less diverse. After all, it's not usually a question on the application.</p>
<p>And you call me ignorant?
Although this is an entirely different topic, "what's so damn special about being gay" is that it is such a struggle. If so many people didn't have so many problems with it, there wouldn't be any "gay pride". Hate groups, such as the KKK, were speaking against homosexuality long before anyone thought of forming any type of organized gay pride.</p>
<p>And you've said it yourself! Your friend enjoys the "struggle of closed-mindedness in the South". Well, a lot of people wouldn't be so fond of the struggle and it's existence shouldn't be denied in effort to end the "stereotypes" and to attract a diverse population of students, as you mentioned before.</p>
<p>I don't have problems with homosexuality....as I said, I have two very close friends who are gay and I love them very very very much. But they're not "in-your-face" gay. What I have a problem with is gay pride parades, and campaigns and all this other business. Just be gay, don't shout gay.
But yeah, like I said, not having a large homosexuality group doesn't make a school less diverse.</p>
<p>And I think if gays didn't shout gay, a lot of people wouldn't have negative vibes about gay people.</p>
<p>Aviatrix, diversity involves more than race, trust me.
The "in-your-face" gay people you are referring to often can't help the way they act. There's a guy I grew up with that has always been "in-your-face" gay...long before he even knew what being gay was.</p>
<p>I'm not talking about the ones that act feminate, or whatever you want to call it, just to clear things up. I'm talking about the ones who always talk about their sex lives, continually scream about how homosexuals are being oppressed, and mention the fact that they're gay at least twice in a normal conversation. You've met them, I'm sure. I've met quite a few..perhaps that is why I can't stand being around them. However, I simply don't think that you can blame southern schools for not being diverse simply because they don't contain enough "out of the closet" gays. As I said, sexual preference has not ever been a question on any application...at least not one that I ever filled out. I could be wrong about this...</p>
<p>dscct - I have lived in NYC for most of my life, and I know firsthand that racism still exists, its just that its kept more quiet because there are so many more minorities. Also - the elderly dont usually go to college.</p>
<p>I see no difference between racial segregation in Atlanta and Charlotte vs racial segregation in New York, a bastion of northeast liberalism. Go to the Upper East Side, go to Whitestone in Queens, go to the north shore of Long Island or the south shore of Staten Island - check out the top schools like Horace Mann (private) and Stuyvesant (public) - how many black or hispanic people will you find? Then go to the Bronx (minus Riverdale) or Bed Stuy - go to schools like MLK, Midwood, Jamaica, and Flushing and compare. There's plenty of segregation everywhere.</p>
<p>The reason gay students find themselves so uncomfortable in southern unis is the same reason minorities do - there are too few of them. And once again, that wont change unless more gay students are willing to go to southern unis. I go to what some people consider the bastion of conservatism - Washington and Lee (I'm a NYC liberal, btw) - and sure there are students here who oppose gay marriage on religious grounds, but they don't treat the gay students any differently (and yes there are out of the closet gay students here).</p>
<p>aviatrix - how are the guys you describe different from heterosexual guys that brag about their sex lives and whine about how little money their parents put into their bank account?</p>
<p>My take on it: its not necessarily North vs. South. I have found people at Emory to be more welcoming than people at Miami, Ohio to minorities for example. Its the "type" that goes to a school and how openly they are concerned with diversity. Thinking "diversity has nothing to do with race" is a total cop-out.</p>
<p>It's too hot. lol other than that i think it's just because people tend to have a stereotype about southerners being slower and not as academic as northerners and that translates to the colleges, There are some beautiful campuses in the south though!</p>
<p>The south has a reputation of violence towards minorities and gays. Being afraid for your life is a reason not to go somewhere. I'm sure violence occurs in the north too, despite its reputation for a more closeted version of racism and homophobia. But still, the south is more associated with violence, due to people being more open about their intolerance, and due to ideas about prevalent gun-ownership, KKK, and civil war nostalgia. It almost has a kind of lawlessness to it, in my imagination, as in a personal rebellion against Yankee rule. I know these are all stereotypes, and as such can be harmful when put forth in an unthoughtful manner. I'm getting them out in the open. A forum is a place where ideas are shared, no matter what the idea is, and where all ideas are duly considered. We're all thoughtful people, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. How can stereotypes end unless there is an open discussion of them and an open sharing of them?
I'm from a diverse suburb in NJ, and went to a lily white LAC in New England. In my hometown there was "voluntary" segregation (it isn't voluntary at all). But I grew up, as a white person, thinking that there was zero racism in my town. ZERO. That's how I nearly answered a survey in the 9th grade that asked if racism was a problem in my school (at the last minute, I decided that there probably was a little racism that I didn't know about, and answered thusly on the survey). That's pretty naive--black kids answered differently, I'm sure. The town was completely blockbusted. Nevertheless, this town fostered the idea that a world without racism was possible, and we were supposed to be the prototype. It was great to think that way. Racism was so alien to us that it was funny--racist jokes are so incredibly bizzare. We sort of collected them. All of this changed when I got to college. It was unknown who was a racist and who was not. Most of the minorities lived in "Unity House." My sense of humor about racism was no longer relevant. Actually, something tells me that if I ventured down south, it would be relevant again.</p>
<p>Southerners are less racist than Northeners. It's an old myth perpetrated by liberals. Southerners and Blacks have intergrated since the civil rights movement, they live next to eachother and they are friends together. In the South you'd see Blacks and Whites sitting together at a restaurant. I can't say this would ever exist in California.</p>
<p>I'd say the biggest difference between the north and the south is that everything down here is a lot more laid back. No one really has a sense of urgency, and are often too lazy to complete certain tasks. And it is really hot here (Orlando). If you're used to four seasons, be prepared for a big surprise if you move to FL, it's nice for awhile but the sticky 95 degree temperatures every day for 5 months straight really get to you. Everyone down here says that it gets "really" cold in the winter, but they're only referring to the 3/4 days out of the year the low dips below 30.</p>
<p>Oh, and everyone down here says "soda" instead of "pop." I always get made fun of because I'm from Ohio and refer to it as the latter. My mom even asked someone once "Do you want to get a pop?" and the person seriously responded "What, a pop in the head?"</p>
<p>Two other things, there's a lot more senior citizens (not that there's anything wrong with that), and everyone down here consistently goes AT LEAST 10 over the speed limit, if not more (which is already 55 in most non-interstate main roads) and you will get run over if you don't. Though you never want to get stuck behind an oldsmobile with one of those senior citizens in them because they are an exception to that rule!</p>
<p>Sadly, an open discussion about stereotypes doesn't entail a bunch of people claiming that the South is full of racists who walk around with shotguns ready for any minorities or homosexuals they meet. </p>
<p>All stereotypes have their roots, sure, but it's pretty pathetic that so many supposedly intelligent people could honestly believe that they're true of all or even most people in a group. Seriously, reading some of these responses about Southerners is as painful as it would be to read posts claiming that all black people carry guns, sell drugs, and rap.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'd say the biggest difference between the north and the south is that everything down here is a lot more laid back. No one really has a sense of urgency, and are often too lazy to complete certain tasks. And it is really hot here (Orlando). If you're used to four seasons, be prepared for a big surprise if you move to FL, it's nice for awhile but the sticky 95 degree temperatures every day for 5 months straight really get to you. Everyone down here says that it gets "really" cold in the winter, but they're only referring to the 3/4 days out of the year the low dips below 30.</p>
<p>Oh, and everyone down here says "soda" instead of "pop." I always get made fun of because I'm from Ohio and refer to it as the latter. My mom even asked someone once "Do you want to get a pop?" and the person seriously responded "What, a pop in the head?"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Pretty much the same here in Louisiana. For the most part, a very laid-back, this-is-a-banana-republic attitude prevails. I overheard a man (without a Southern accent) at a supermarket a couple of weeks ago, at the meat counter. He was asking for jumbo shrimp. The meat-counter guy said, "We're out of that." He said, in a very flat, even tone, "You mean to tell me that it's a Friday in Lent and you don't have jumbo shrimp?" While I know he was just giving a completely honest evaluation of the supply or lack of it (I live in a place where "the truck" regularly fails to come), that is considered incredibly rude here. I saw the look of shock on the faces of the others waiting behind him. </p>
<p>Race? I don't know. I go to an integrated school. There's a fair amount of mixing. While I know there are racists, and racists in the making (especially out in your small villages of less than 5,000), I'm convinced the problem is <em>not</em> worsening. I've only overheard a few racist remarks--about half from blacks and half from whites, and these are your very undereducated, ignorant individuals who hang to a culture of fear. But that is definitely not going to be prevalent in any place which has to sustain a college or university. Mississippi, I can't speak for--I do hear some strange things about it which may or may not be true. But in Louisiana we have a lot of racial mixing--the Creoles, we have Native American/white or black intermarriages. </p>
<p>We do have your Baptists here--fortunately they're tempered by Catholics where I live. Like I said, in the small towns, the small all-white churches can become very . . . exclusive at times--interested in promoting one worldview, one perspective. But that is not the case in larger areas at all. It definitely is more conservative than the north, but not always in a bad way.</p>
<p>Now, I'm a big critic of the South--it is ignorant, people choose to love the status quo, and sometimes it feels like a third-world country. It takes a while for things to come here (movies, books, ideas). Many people return to their home right after college (is that the case everywhere? well, 75% of the pop. of Louisiana are natives). No one should turn down a Southern school simply because it's in the south. People are EXTREMELY nice here and are very hospitable, and the weather's great (read: not cold). Everything is done with the biggest smile. It's an area with a lot of potential--it just needs to realize it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Southerners are less racist than Northeners. It's an old myth perpetrated by liberals. Southerners and Blacks have intergrated since the civil rights movement, they live next to eachother and they are friends together. In the South you'd see Blacks and Whites sitting together at a restaurant. I can't say this would ever exist in California.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are you trying to be funny or are you the protege of David Horowitz?</p>
<p>I didn't mean that I really believe all those stereotypes about southerners. I was just enumerating them. I doubt many of the people in this discussion believe them.</p>
<p>I think people are focusing on the wrong schools here on CC. We are focusing on schools such as Vandy and Duke whith a large amount of population of people outside the south. To find a true southern school I think you would have to look at public schools.</p>
<p>My son, who's Hispanic, was offered a great financial package to attend Washington & Lee. It's very, very tempting. (As background, we live in an ethnically diverse, somewhat affluent suburb in NJ.) When he visited W & L the first time, he loved it. After he spent several days there, however, he was much less certain he wanted to attend. Even if you understand the historical roots behind why a place is the way it is, it can still be hard to stomach things like those Confederate flags hanging in dorm rooms. I don't think anyone smart enough to get into W & L is unaware that many blacks view that flag as a symbol of slavery and racism. Wouldn't it make you a little nervous about attending if you were a black from the North and uncertain about what living in the South is like for minorities? Also, W & L is at the top of the list for "little race/class interaction" in those surveys cited on the College Board website.</p>
<p>Now, my son is not afraid of racism, and knows he could hold his own there if it existed. We truly don't believe that W & L is any more or less racist than anywhere else. As many have already said, greater diversity doesn't mean greater tolerance because our suburb has plenty of racism. But, like collegemadre, what worries us more is the stereotypical impression too many people have about students who attend a college like W & L.</p>
<p>You son should take note of the confederate flags that are common at W&L. No, the klan doesn't attend the student council meetings. But there are are committed racists in the vincinity (among the student body). I speak from SPECIFIC experience. Would I let that stop me from applying if I were 18 again? Not necesarily. Just know what you're getting into. The school has fine academic departments, a quite pretty campus, and a laid back student life. But it is home to self-perceived southern aristocrats who, on ocasion, are vocal about their "superiority."</p>