<p>One question I heard asked in a panel Q&A of existing students was
"Where else did you apply and why did you choose x over them?"</p>
<p>I "plagiarized" that same question in future sessions I attended and where I could, always asked it. It never failed to reveal quite alot about the students' frame of mind, as well as some nuggets of information I'm sure we wouldn't have heard otherwise.</p>
<p>We took our time and we took our video camera (but not on the tour). After the tour we took a second walk around with the camera trying to capture a bit of the identity without being too embarrassing. Inside shots of libraries and out side shots of the campus with a quick review of the facts we remembered from the tour. This helped us refresh our memory when we got back home. Keeping notes is essential - they all turn to mush after a while....was it 20 classes with 40 students or forty classes with 20 students?</p>
<p>Mistakes to avoid....don't have your important interviews first...get some practice in... Confidence is attractive
Demonstrate your knowledge of the school and try to ask questions not easily accessed on line or by mail..."I know your English department has a course on....., how hard is it to get into this type of class given your small class sizes... or can a non theater major be considered for a part in your spring play festival? Are their chorus groups for non music majors? Of course make the questions real and relevent to your own needs and desires.</p>
<p>If she gets her SAT up...why not consider Cornell. It is a little distant from NYC but is the state's premier school and the state colleges are affordable, while allowing access to the Arts and Sciences courses. Other schools might include the remaining sisters - Smith, Bryn Mawr are relatively close.</p>
<p>jmmom-I think this was the thread- "Not so obvious visit suggestions"
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=33248&highlight=obvious%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=33248&highlight=obvious</a></p>
<p>If your daughter is extroverted, have her walk up to current students and talk to them about the school. Some questions to ask:
*What do you like least about the school?
*What do you like most about the school?
*If you could do it all over again, would you have gone here?
*What are some of the biggest problems with the professors? Administration? Classes?
*What is the social life like?
*How hard is it to schedule classes?
*How is the food? Are the dining halls open enough so that you can eat even if a class is scheduled at lunch or dinner time?</p>
<p>Finally - look around at the current students and listen to your daughter's gut! My gut loved my alma mater from the second I set foot on campus; I realized later that it was because all of the students are so happy and friendly. The tour guide clearly loved the school; his friends kept saying hi to him and us; and the students whom we passed were all smiling and happy. Contrast my dream school - I loved the idea of it, but the students were all staring at the floor when I walked by, and most of them just looked stressed and upset. No one says "hi," and no one really looked warm and friendly. The gut picks up on those things pretty well, although they are not on your radar screen when you're trying to soak in as much information as possible about Career Services and core requirements.</p>
<p>You might consider looking at schools that don't require the SAT. Bates, Bodoin, Dickinson and St. Lawrence are a partial list in the Northeast. I believe Union will allow you to substitute SAT II scores for the SAT I. They all have excellent English departments.</p>
<p>I like Curioser's question about "Where else did you apply and why did you choose X?"</p>
<p>Ariesathena, that's a good M.O. even if the prospect isn't an extrovert. They just might not be as comfortable at doing it. ;)</p>
<p>However, I think AA is dead on about trusting gut feelings. The heart hath its reasons of which reason knoweth not. I know that for my part I was bemused my some of my own gut reactions...some very highly rated institutions got an "eh!?" reaction from me.</p>
<p>L, it may be too late now for your daughter, but if she fills in the first part of the Bard application and sets up an appointment, she can interview when she visits.</p>
<p>My son filled his out in a hotel room by hand as we drove down from New Hampshire. He interviewed, paid the deposit and was later accepted. (He sent in his main essays later.) He loved Bard, the campus and the feel of the place. The music was outstanding. I think he would have been happy there but in the end chose another school. That's how it goes.</p>
<p>Although I haven't viewed any of them, I've heard good (and some not so good) things about the "Collegiate Choice" videos, which apparently are <em>very</em> non-slick videos made while on college visits -- it might make sense to take a look at some of these to see what kinds of questions the filmers (as well as the other visitors) ask.</p>
<p>we're on the same page, dig</p>
<p>I agree with you digmedia! Great advice! Your child could even email some of the profs who look interesting (on the website) and then maybe meet a few of them on the visit. That was a MAJOR help to my S. He ended up being invited to work in one of the prof's labs when he met him in person and they really clicked. (He WILL be doing that btw starting in the Fall). </p>
<p>Did your S enjoy his recent visit to OU? My S's friend did.</p>
<p>Curiouser, your question about what schools did you apply to made me smile, because I remember a parent asking that at a college we visited and the student, almost without thinking, said, "It was the only one I got in". I've also heard, "It gave me the most money", but then you just have to take it further and ask how they like it now. Truthfully, not everyone had a real choice, but many end up loving their schools.
On a slightly different note, I wondered how many parents got a lot out of the college review sites/books. I had bookmarked many in the beginning, some student review, some with video and info, looked the various review books, (yale's, peterson,fiske,princeton) Did you find it helpful, repetitive, confusing? My S barely looks at them. Some things just repeat over and over, so you know it probably is true, but a "fit" with your kid can't be made in pages. It did help with him not going to a notorious party school or one that had a lot of TA's teaching. Anyone else feel compelled to read them?</p>
<p>Take it slow and enjoy yourselves. I'd recommend spending one full day at each college. Plan to take the tour, attend the information session and interview if offered. Do it in that order so that you'll be knowledgeable at the interview. If it's hot, bring a change of top or shoes as the tour can involve a lot of up and down hills and stairs.</p>
<p>I like on campus interviews because they often allow you to make a personal connection with someone in the admissions committee, someone with whom you can continue to communicate with (via e-mail) throughout the application process. What worked best for my son was to peruse the on-line course catalog prior to the interview and have some questions ready pertaining to his field of interest. Or at least enthusiastic comments about interesting classes. Other good ideas for questions are ones that deal with the teaching philosophy or general character of the school. Theory is better than specifics.</p>
<p>After the official visits, spend some time wandering around campus. Visit the facilities that weren't on the tour. For whatever reason among the 14 schools that we visited only one! (Conn College) took the tour inside the art department. This is a must for any one interested in studio art as facilities vary widely.</p>
<p>I'd also have a meal at one of the dining halls. See what the campus shops are like. Spend one night on campus if you can.</p>
<p>Afterwards, list out what you liked, what you didn't like, what you really didn't like about each school. They do all blend together so it's important to write down a few thoughts while the impression is fresh.</p>
<p>Visiting the actual department you are interested in is very important, especially if it's something like art, engineering, communications. Definitely eat LUNCH in the cafeteria. We had an eye opening lunch at one school where 90% of the kids appeared hung over at 1:00 pm on Saturday, & their conversations centered on the previous night's partying.</p>
<p>I would also like to remind you to not put an overwhelming amount of emphasis on any given college tour.</p>
<p>One day in the life of a college is not necessarily like all the others. The weather could change, your tour guide could have had indigestion when he took you around, maybe there aren't many students on campus because of some big event in the city, not every class will be the same as the one you attend, etc. etc. Take each tour experience, both positive AND negative, with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>As best as possible try to not get hung up on the physical setting. It's not about the buildings although it surely adds to the total picture and gives some indication to the upkeep of the school. Our daughter was quite taken with Vassar and quite disappointed when they waitlisted her. Just to give you a sense of the numbers and acceptance: she was top 5% of a class of 530, SAT 1430, SAT 11 760, 740, 700, part-time job all through high school, all AP's and honors courses, and commit. to 4 EC's for 4 years. As it's been said over and over: find safeties that you love. It's easy to find selective schools that win you over.</p>
<p>Many good suggestions. IMHO (or perhaps IMNSHO) visiting the English and art departments, eating in the cafeteria, checking out the local surroundings, and letting your D speak to students without your presence are important.</p>
<p>I would go to the admissions presentation to get a feel for the kind of image the school wants to project and also for the opportunity to listen to the answers to others' questions. If you can't get your in during the session, you ought to be able to talk with an admissions oficer afterwards.</p>
<p>Student tour guides are trained to give a certain image of the school as well, but some of them are better than others at sticking to the canned information. Use the opportunity of a tour not so much to see buildings but to ask questions about the guide's personal experiences at the school - what facilities has he/she lived in - good points/bad. How do they rate the entertainment available - why? What do he/she and friends do for their own fun? How do they find the political atmosphere? Also, it's a good place to ask "loaded" questions since student tour guides usually aren't adept at recognizing them.</p>
<p>For fun, you could also read the book "Harvard Shmarvard", particuarly the sections that describe how the author had his daughter establish criteria for rating schools (some were rational, some less rational) and how they used them on the visits.</p>
<p>I think it is important to behave as if getting into a school you visit would be an honor, even if you have three other schools you prefer already. After all, everyone there "chose" it, and they don't want to hear even a hint of your preferences for "more urban environment, better diversity, better social lives" etc at other schools, even though they invariably ASK you where else you are looking. They are human. They are curious. (Don't even get me started on how surprised I was that Alum interviewers are also very nosy and will ask you to Rank Your List by Preference etc.) ugh. What a bind
But don't feed into it. Your guest host and tour guide may have been rejected from a school you are "in." Or they already know their college town is considered dull or that another school has a glamorous gym or whatever. I was so surprised when I heard other visiting kids actually waxing on about how much more fun School C is, and how the sports at School A aren't exciting. As if they were unconscious that they were slamming the school hosting them. Be polite and be positive and compliment the strengths of each school. Be vague about your options.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone</p>
<p>We came home this evening and read your messages a bit late......but they were all good ideas. After seeing 4 schools and collecting all the materials and discussions and tours I feel so much more "with it" in doing this college entrance thing.</p>
<p>Uh oh .....I think Bard is rubbing off on me....did I just sound like them?</p>
<p>Just kidding. </p>
<p>I liked the post about asking three things the tour guide loves about the school and three they hate.</p>
<p>The schools we saw ( Fordham,Vassar, Bard, and Marist) were all so different from one another. It was good to see different styles and levels of schools.</p>
<p>My impression of each: My daughters impression :</p>
<p>Fordham eh.....beautiful campus but Very beautiful</p>
<p>ugly smelly dorms thats it.</p>
<p>Definite emphasis on Business and Law school
which is great if that is what you want to study.</p>
<p>Three campuses Rose hill (Bronx) Lincoln Ctr(NYC)
and Tarrytown(Westchester NY)</p>
<p>Found this to be a perk and a minus.</p>
<p>The Bronx is not too atrractive.</p>
<p>Vassar:</p>
<p>Both of us: What's not to like? Except the selectivity level.</p>
<p>It exceeded our dreams both in beauty and in programs.</p>
<p>Bard:</p>
<p>Now this place was interesting.</p>
<p>It feels like sophistication and intellect that borders euphoria in it's ideals for education yet feels like a throwback to a hippie commune from the 70's.</p>
<p>We were both intrigued and disturbed at once. The programs sound fantastic for my daughters interest( art, English and Photography) but the layout of the place is so eclectic and "enviromental". </p>
<p>All I can say is we were left with a strong impression and some people will either love it or hate it immmediately an then others like us will not be able to put words to it so easily.....not sure what to make of it.....fascinated and skeptical at once. </p>
<p>Hyde Park and Rhinebeck were nice small towns nearby but not too much around.</p>
<p>Marist:</p>
<p>What beautiful views of the Hudson River ( the school sits right on a hill next to it.) </p>
<p>Super clean and new and beautifully manicured landscape. Library very technilogically updated. They have a partnership with IBM in the area and IBM updates all tier equiptment every 2yrs.</p>
<p>Not on the same selectivity level as Bard and Vassar but very impressive ..........my daughter can earn a substantial merit based scholarship here. My husband likes that part the best.</p>
<p>Daughter says it was real nice but felt a little like a large high school near a river.</p>
<p>Overall I must say we learned alot. Nothing beats seeing the school for yourself!</p>
<p>Daughter now tells us shes thinking she might prefer an urban setting she's not so sure she likes the small town country settings.</p>
<p>I'm sur these next months will be a roller coaster of changes for all of us.</p>
<p>But we had fun..........I think the best part is getting to spend time alone with just her. No matter which college she chooses I know she will be happy and I'm having alot of fun watching her explore and learn and discover just in the process.</p>
<p>Luliztee, one of your comments triggered a memory: I've heard, and I think it's correct, that if something bugs you during the tour, you may absolutely hate it at the end of four years. The "high school by a river" thing reminded me a little of D's reaction to American U., except that it was in a semi-suburban part of D.C., not by a river.</p>
<p>Luliztee: We also visited Marist, daughter applied, and received their most generous merit scholarship. I agree with your comments about the campus. Picture the Hudson River on a nice, crisp fall day! Daughter thought the academics were too slanted on pre-professional. If you are interested in business or communication, let's say, it could be a good choice.</p>