What public HS information is considered 'public?'

Parent Cafe
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<p>I am interested in trying to work with our public HS to encourage them to try and do more for the top academic kids and to encourage them to look further than the local state U. To this end, I would like to get some information from them regarding overall performance of the students on the AP exams, grade distribution etc. Our school profile is minimally informative. </p>

<p>Would any of this sort of aggregate information be considered public? Can the school just say "sorry, not gonna tell you?" I have worked with the school district before on policy and procedure issues and had some luck getting changes made.</p>

<p>Just for background, when I attended the open house back when DS was taking Calc AB, the teacher mentioned that of the 90 or so (out of class of 500+) that was taking Calc AB, 30 some took the AP test, and 15-20 did "very well" (which apparently is getting 3 or better) :eek: This, BTW, is the 'best HS' in our town.</p>

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<p>That’s an interesting question. We have a new superintendent and he is committed to presenting good news each month in a newsletter to the community, so I have recently found out stats like our AP test grades, etc.</p>

<p>I would suggest you attend a curriculum committee meeting. Our board curriculum committee discusses these types of things, and you should be able to ask any questions pertaining to curriculum there. If not, a regular board meeting should at least allow you to ask your question and hopefully they will get back to you or explain their policy on these matters.</p>

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<p>I’d think that the School Report that they send to colleges with the description of the class and courses offered would be considered public. Does your HS have a website? It might even be published; I know that I can get our School Report from the website.</p>

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<p>I was thinking of starting at the school level, talking to the principal etc. But maybe it would be better at the School District level as perhaps there’s less chance of running into defensive walls.</p>

<p>@Chedva: Our school profile is public but pretty uninformative. And no, there is nothing on the websites. I know what classes are offered, I just want to know how that translates into AP scores etc.</p>

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<p>Our local high school does not list the AP test results. I requested a copy of the College Board Summary Report which provides a breakdown of how many students took each AP exam and the score distributions. Initially, the guidance counselor said that she was not sure if she could release the results. I said that the scores should be a matter of public record since no student names are listed. After checking with the Super., she sent me a copy of the report. (After receiving the scores, I can see why she was reluctant to send me the report. :frowning: I don’t know if the College Board Summary Report is considered public knowledge or not… I would think that if the school is hesitant to send it to you, it is obviously a red flag.</p>

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<p>I have heard that one of the other HS in town that has a less privileged student body actually does better in AP scores (I know that’s far from the be all/end all) and would also be curious to see that across the different schools.</p>

<p>snowbeltmom: I’m expecting to see a not glowing report if I do eventually get to see one. Unfortunately, as I posted above, they seem to think that a ‘3’ is a mighty fine score.</p>

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<p>ihs76: I have the same passion. Our high schools sound very similar. Our senior class is a little smaller-438. Our school profile is also minimal since very few students apply to selective schools.</p>

<p>I sat in on a focus group of elementary and middle school parents of gifted students this week at the request of our HS principal. I hope to be helping the gifted coordinator prepare some sort of information for making the transition from middle school to high school and set a plan for selective college admissions. The gifted parents seemed very interested in having me work as a volunteer in this area. Another group of IB parents has also expressed an interest.The four HS guidance counselors and one college advisor have all they can do to help first-generation kids figure out how to apply, take the ACT, etc.</p>

<p>Recently the district (which includes three HS) released figures on the number of students taking AP classes and that came from College Board as snowbeltom mentioned. It was a state-wide report. The number of AP students was up and our district’s average was above the state average but both were below a 3. (The newspaper article about this failed to mention that below a 3 wasn’t going to get you college credit!)</p>

<p>Have you tried your state department of education? Our requires schools to list percentage of students going to two-year, four-year or technical schools. But selectivity is not a factor.</p>

<p>Good luck with your effort. I don’t know where my efforts will lead but there does seem to be a group of parents who are interested in my helping and the school seems willing to consider it.</p>

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<p>Having dealt with a school district reluctant to share public information, I am somewhat familiar with this topic. I resorted to submitting a Freedom of Information Law request a few years ago, but I would suggest that only as a last resort.</p>

<p>I’m confident the information you are seeking is public. Here’s the NYS definition of public information:</p>

<p>“Record” means any information kept, held, filed, produced or reproduced by, with or for an agency or the state legislature, in any physical form whatsoever including, but not limited to, reports, statements, examinations, memoranda, opinions, folders, files, books, manuals, pamphlets, forms, papers, designs, drawings, maps, photos, letters, microfilms, computer tapes or discs, rules, regulations or codes.</p>

<p>There are some exceptions, primarily having to do with privacy and trade-secret issues. The school may charge you for providing copies, so you should probably request everything in electronic form.</p>

<p>Here’s the New York State site on open government. I would expect most states have something similar.
[Committee</a> on Open Government, New York State Department of State](<a href=“http://www.dos.state.ny.us/coog/index.html]Committee”>http://www.dos.state.ny.us/coog/index.html)</p>

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<p>So sounds like other schools are releasing this info. That’s helpful to know. </p>

<p>OWM: Sounds like your HS may be more helpful than mine. I’m expecting the HS principal to say “thanks but no thanks.” That’s why I wanted to go armed with some data.</p>

<p>Eqtakes: Yea, don’t want to have to resort to FOIA but I suppose one could always ‘mention’ it :D</p>

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<p>Our house school doesn’t list the AP score results, but it does list how many APs were taken in each subject and how many AP Scholars, AP Scholars with distinction, AP National Scholars etc. there are. It also lists how many students take the various SAT subjects tests and I think the mean score (or maybe the range or the median - can’t remember.)</p>

<p>At our school at various college related assemblies they will say things like “most students get a passing score on APs”, by which they mean a 3. Individual teachers are generally more forthcoming and at least in the classes my sons have taken the teachers have claimed that 3/4 of the students got 4s and 5s. I know that my kids scored very well - especially before senior year when it counted. :)</p>

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<p>Here’s how I got information about the results of AP testing in our local school district: I attended a meeting of the School Board during which the annual NYS “Report Card” for our school was discussed. This report card includes information about how students did on math and ELA tests in the lower grades, and how high school students performed on Regents exams. I asked the superintendent if he had any information how our students did when competing against their peers nationwide on the AP exams. Several Board members indicated that they were also interested in knowing how we fared. When the superintendent said he did not have that information I asked if he could get it. No problem! He had it available at the next SB meeting.</p>

<p>Sure, there is always FOIL but this might be a better, less adversarial way.</p>

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<p>Our school has bent over backwards to help our son–the only NM Finalist in the district–with his college admissions process. I think it helps that both my husband and I volunteer at the school and have developed relationships with the administration since our older son entered as a freshman in 2004. It’s a relationship built on mutual trust, not at all adversarial.</p>

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<p>It is not a terribly good sign that a 3 is considered doing “very well”; in many universities, students who got a 3 on AP Calculus are advised that they may want to retake freshman calculus from the beginning (as opposed to those who got a 5 who are assumed to understand the material well enough to immediately jump into more advanced math courses).</p>

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<p>Have you contacted the counseling office yet? They would probably welcome knowledgable volunteer help.</p>

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<p>I’ve been fighting this same battle with my daughter’s school with no luck so far. Other, more competitive high schools in our district actively publish this information on campus but I have run into a brick wall with our GC and administration. I suspect the information must not be flattering to the school administration.</p>

<p>snowbeltmom - is ‘College Board Summary Report’ the full and complete name of the document you received? Is it a spreadsheet like the state level Summary Reports available on the College Board web page? If so, I think I am going to pursue this document using the public records angle.</p>

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<p>Make a request under your state’s Freedom of Information Law for the records you want. Ask them to redact students’ names and any other identifying details.</p>

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<p>Here’s a viewpoint…you state that you want to have the district do more for top students…you equate that with looking further than state schools. This is an honorable thing to pursue. I don’t understand what overall performance on AP tests has to do with this. GPA scores might elucidate if the school tends toward grade inflation or deflation and generally schools are willing to give you the percents of kids at various GPA ranges. What about artists? Musicians? Systems type kids for which there are not many if any AP branded curriculum and tests. AP, like ACT or like SAT do not predict how students will succeed in college…there are too many other factors like time management, desire, money and maturity that are determining factors.</p>

<p>If you genuinely want to open the kids eyes to options for colleges, or genuinely want to help more kids score higher on standardized testing go for it. I’m curious what your “plan” is? Tutoring? Zero hour classes? Tweaking the curriculum? What will this limited data you “want” move you closer to what it is you want to do? I’m not convinced that you need more “records” from the school to meet your objectives as stated but I only know your outcome: get more kids into schools not in the state and have more kids score 3 or better on AP tests…</p>

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<p>momof3: I don’t have a ‘plan.’ I have no idea where the school district is in terms of any metrics. I would like to see some of these to get an idea of where they are and then generate some ideas from there. So my question for this thread was whether some of these data are even gettable, and it sounds like it should be. </p>

<p>Unfortunately the school culture is not supportive of high performing kids and there is low bar for expectations. As I noted, they were actually pretty proud of their 20% of Calc students who got 3 or above in the calc AB class. The killer for me was when my son self studied for BC and got a 5, yet never got a ‘good job’ or ‘congratulations’ from his calc teacher. Calc teacher says he wants to offer BC for kids who want it, but never lifted a finger to help my son. The school seems convinced that they are doing a mighty fine job even though its clear to me that they are not serving their high achievers well.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the counseling office is not very informed or receptive. Again, they think they are doing a fine job. One counselor told a mom to not waste her time with the Common App as “no one uses it.” DS’s counselor told him he could not take SAT II’s until he’d taken SAT I first. And she’s the head of the dept!!!</p>

<p>So I would like to get some numbers and start looking at how I could approach them to maybe try and do better and more.</p>

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<p>The old saw about flies, honey and vinegar comes to mind. If the counseling office isn’t receptive or knowledgeable, then using the FOIA to get AP test scores might not be the most productive approach. </p>

<p>How about if you volunteer to help update the school profile? The profile doesn’t have to include every single bit of information; you get to pick and choose what shows off the school’s best features. Sometimes that means pointing out that 95% of the school takes and passes at least one AP; sometimes it means mentioning that even with 95% of the school on the federal lunch program there are still X number of students taking AP coursework. If no students have a 4.0, then mentioning that the graduating class’s GPAs at the end of junior year had a median value of 2.whatever and that the highest GPA was 3.something is useful info. You’d be taking work off of the GC, AND helping all of the students. Win-win! Of course, if your kid happens to be the 3.something kid, then you’ve also been able to add info that will highlight just how well your child has done in this particular school. Win-win-win!</p>

<p>If you can get ahold of your current profile and draft up a sample of a new, improved version, that can be a useful selling tool. </p>

<p>Does your high school offer a college night? Is there a local college fair? Could some local college adcoms or financial aid officers be invited to give an evening information session for parents?</p>

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<p>^^ Yes, these are all things that could be done. I have no intention of going FOIA route. At this point, just trying to find out if the info is considered public information or not.</p>