<p>that a kid will find a job in PRICEWATERHOUSECOOPERS or DOLITTLE...after graduating from a avg. business public school?</p>
<p>[how tough is the competition to enter into these firms?]</p>
<p>Get a MAcc from almost anywhere they are offered and you're 75% assured an auditing job with a firm... as long as you know how to ask good questions and speak well (A MAcc will teach you this, usually).</p>
<p>MAcc ??
Whats that..</p>
<p>[ i am not a business student but just asking]</p>
<p>Masters of Accounting. Masters of Professional Accountancy... Master of Science in Accounting.. Just basically a Master's in Accounting (some schools offer it, some don't). </p>
<p>It's tough to get a job at one of the big 4. The key is to network...but the MAcc degree can really help.</p>
<p>Most of them want you to be able to sit for the CPA exam upon entering their team...Meaning, you have to already have 150 credit hours, or have already passed the CPA examination.</p>
<p>If you look at a few of the big 4's career websites, they tell you some of the basic requirements. I forget which one I just visited last week, but most of them wanted you to be able (150 credits, each state differs on what the requirements are, but you can check out online) to sit for the CPA exam.</p>
<p>One person I know has been recruited by one of the big 4 for 2 and a half years and already has a job lined up for next year (August).</p>
<p>I am planning to go for a B.S. in Industrial Engineering. [i'm still in HS]</p>
<p>i heard those firms recruite alot of IEs from Penn State [the school i plan to attend].</p>
<p>and a couple of years (8 to 10) from now, maybe even more than a decade, I may go for a MBA.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's tough to get a job at one of the big 4. The key is to network...but the MAcc degree can really help.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not as tough as you may think. Right now, there is a global shortage of accountants:</p>
<p>Touché</p>
<p>Yes, I guess it's not tough in the sense that there are a limited amount of jobs... as you say, it's exactly the opposite... Heck, there were 1400 open positions at KPMG in the US the last time I checked.</p>
<p>I just meant more in regards to the fact that you have to put in a lot of hard work, remain in good academic standing at your school (most positions I've looked for want a 3.0, some want a 3.3 or above), and most want you to pass the CPA exam or be ready to sit for it, or actively pursuing the chance. </p>
<p>Some people don't want to put in the work. </p>
<p>The person I mentioned that has been recruited for the last two years has networked extensively with these people from E&Y at school events (guest speakers, etc.), public events, and even some national events.... </p>
<p>Heck, I still have a year and a half left of undergrad work until I receive my B.S. in Accounting, and I'm already planning on goiing straight into grad school to receive my MAcc, although IU calls it an MPA, Master's of Professional Accountancy. I'll be eligible to sit for the CPA exam after I'm finished, and all the big four firms recruit on IU-Indy's campus. They don't recruit at the school I presently attend. A lot of the job listings I've viewed on their websites prefer the Masters in Accounting.</p>
<p>Geting a job with the national firms usually require at least a 3.3 overall and 3.4+ in accounting. When I worked for one of these firms, the minimum accounting GPA was 3.5. This may, however, dropped a bit due to the shortage of qualified accountants.</p>
<p>Really? I've only seen a few of them that say 3.3, and they are only for certain positions...
Most of them I've seen have been 3.0, and I think that was PwC.</p>
<p>But you would know because you worked at a national firm, and you have the first-hand knowledge/experience, but I was just basing it off what I found on their career website.</p>
<p>Granted, I worked for a national firm about 30 years ago. Things may have changed since then.</p>
<p>Ah, I see - but either way, still that's probably a pretty reasonable thing to say (3.3-3.4).</p>
<p>Do you think an auditor at a big 4 would be required to have a higher gpa than someone in tax?</p>
<p>What are the biggest differences between audit/tax?</p>
<p>Feel free to completely disregard my questions :)! Seriously, only respond if you have the time.</p>
<p>If you are serious enough to get a Masters degree in the accounting field, you are serious enough to pass the CPA, and you are a very strong candidate for Big four firms. I would say that out of the MAcc graduates who want to work at the big 4 (let's be honest, there are a good number of students who would rather work at smaller firms so never try for the big 4), the majority (>50%) are hired. The hiring numbers at the Big 4 may not reflect this, but that's because their statistics don't apply to just MAcc graduates. They apply also to undergrads who apply and random accountants looking for work there, but who don't have a MAcc.</p>
<p>The required GPA varies a bit from office to office, depending on supply and demand and the quality of the school--even within the firm. If you're in a rural area, the Big 4 will most likely recruit a lot of people from the few schools that are around and will most likely have a moderate GPA requirement (usually a 3.2-3.3 absolute minimum for the first round interview). If you're in a highly compeitive area where there are a ton of quality schools (New York, Boston), the GPA requirement won't change by much, but it may be a bit higher. If you're school tends to produce quality students, the GPA requirement may be laxed. I know that they dropped the GPA requirement at my alma mater, although it has to do a bit with the grade deflation issues there.</p>
<p>To be honest, though, GPA isn't a huge factor--it'll help you sell yourself during the first round interview (and can potentially keep you from getting that first interview), but it's not going to do a thing for you when it comes to the final decision.</p>
<p>"Do you think an auditor at a big 4 would be required to have a higher gpa than someone in tax?"</p>
<p>No, the hiring requirements for audit vs. tax are not different.</p>
<p>"What are the biggest differences between audit/tax?"</p>
<p>Audit travels quite a bit, while tax travels very little (you're usually in the office). Audit gives you a lot of exposure to SOX and GAAP, whereas tax gives you a lot of exposure to tax law and tax planning.</p>
<p>Good replies, good replies.</p>
<p>So, it's not really going to set you back to put-off work for a year while you complete your Masters in Accounting, because it shows that you are dedicated to the field, and dedicated to passing your CPA? Meaning, coming out of your Masters program with limited work experience isn't going to matter as much to recruiters vs. a grad from marketing/finance where experience is really necessary. Since accounting is a more information driven field, the more you can get out of your education, the better? Being eligible to sit for the CPA exam before applying to one of the big 4's is going to help your chances?</p>
<p>I'm not saying work experience isn't necessary, that will help the "seasoned" worker get into the big 4, but someone can go straight into a Masters program out of undergrad in Accounting because they want to be eligible to sit for the CPA exam and still get hired by a big four firm, correct?</p>
<p>One of the reasons I ask this is because like I said, there are no big four recruiters at my undergrad school. The grad school that I plan on attending ,if I get accepted, has recruiters from all of the big four, and some smaller ones, like Grant T., etc. I know that your chances greatly improve when you have a recruiter on campus, so I figured it wouldn't hurt my chances if I come out of undergrad and go straight to grad school where I have more options.</p>
<p>granted_business, that is correct... especially if you pass the CPA exam before looking to go Big 4. If you are able to pass the CPA exam, you will almost assure your spot on whichever Big 4's auditing team you choose.</p>
<p>"So, it's not really going to set you back to put-off work for a year while you complete your Masters in Accounting, because it shows that you are dedicated to the field, and dedicated to passing your CPA? Meaning, coming out of your Masters program with limited work experience isn't going to matter as much to recruiters vs. a grad from marketing/finance where experience is really necessary. Since accounting is a more information driven field, the more you can get out of your education, the better? Being eligible to sit for the CPA exam before applying to one of the big 4's is going to help your chances?"</p>
<p>A few things to comment on here: Having a Master's does not really put you ahead of someone with just a Bachelor's (assuming he or she also qualifies for the exam). Whether you have a Master's or not makes no difference--being able to sit for the exam is what makes or breaks your chances. There are plenty of people (partners, nonetheless) who have nothing other than a bachelor's and a CPA license.</p>
<p>To clarify, being able to sit for the exam doesn't really "help" your chances--it's essentially a prerequisite more than anything. Everyone that you're competing with is also ready to sit and just about ready to sit (some take the summer off during their first year to complete their Master's).</p>
<p>Finally, having a Master's is not a trade off for having experience. Experience is, by no means, required--lots of people get jobs without it--but having an internship is essentially a guarantee that you will have a job. Very few people intern at a firm without getting an full-time offer. If you can do it, definitely do it. If you can't, it's certainly ok (I didn't have a Big 4 internship), but don't think that a Master's necessarily makes you more competitive than someone with experience. Getting a Master's is only one means to an end--there are multiple ways to go about qualifying for the exam.</p>
<p>"I'm not saying work experience isn't necessary, that will help the "seasoned" worker get into the big 4, but someone can go straight into a Masters program out of undergrad in Accounting because they want to be eligible to sit for the CPA exam and still get hired by a big four firm, correct?"</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>Great replies guys.</p>
<p>The reason I'm going to Grad school, outside of wanting to live in the city, is because there are no big four recruiters at my undergrad school, and the grad school is filled with recruiters from every accounting firm you can think of.</p>
<p>It's more of a way to help my career than put off working, in my eyes.</p>
<p>Believe me, I wish that there were recruiters at my school from the big four, but I just have to accept that there aren't, and pursue my MAcc to better my chances since the big four recruit there and virtually all of their graduates pass the CPA exam.</p>
<p>from what I've been told, your MAcc will fly by... don't sweat it, it just an additional year of intensive accounting study, basically preparing you to pass the CPA exam.</p>
<p>What's Dolittle? You mean Deloitte?</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the support 311Griff - it really helps when you get positive reinforcement for the decisions that you are making.</p>
<p>I really hope it turns out to be the best decision for me; I've got this feeling in my gut that's telling me it's the best decision because it's what I think will benefit my career the most and it's what I reallyyyyy want to do. </p>
<p>I really appreciate all the answers to questions. </p>
<p>I'm not sure about where I want to take my career, as far as tax vs. audit, but right now I'm leaning towards audit, and I'm trying to branch out and find some people that have worked in both areas because I think it would help...</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>