<p>and are you a mother? Are you actually going to raise a child with that mentality?</p>
<p>Trackbabi - You need to read all of my post before you comment on it, otherwise you risk making no sense. You missed the point, and have no grip whatsoever on what or how I think.</p>
<p>I certainly do not think that racism is in the past, and I said as much. I specifically stated that this particular claim of racism was not logically supported with sufficient explanation.</p>
<p>Are you a mother, Trackbabi? If you are, I hope you will teach your children to read something in its entirety before they judge and comment on it. Winging it is not good, in the classroom or in real life.</p>
<p>Just because someone feels bigotry does not mean that it has occurred. Just because I questioned the evidence in this situation does not mean there was no racism (and I said that specifically as well). My point, and I'll give it to you in Cliff Notes if you can't read the whole post, was that if you don't have sufficient information you really should give people the benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>Hotpiece, again. I made no assumptions about you - you explained yourself and I quoted you. You talked about your choices and why you make them. I made no comment about them. Perhaps you are not happy now with what you wrote? It is good then that you elaborated more in your last post. After that, I shared things about myself just as you did about yourself. I think that anyone who carefully reads all of our posts in this thread will get a good view of what we think on this topic, in our own words.</p>
<p>I hope you are optimistic, Hotpiece, and I hope if you are that you remain that way. I also hope that as I suspect the Harvard incident was better than it appeared to you, and if it is as you suspected that things get better there.</p>
<p>I quite enjoyed the debate.</p>
<p>I also hope that as I suspect the Harvard incident was better than it appeared to you, and if it is as you suspected that things get better there.
<<</p>
<p>The "Harvard incident" wasn't "really better" than reported. It was discriminatory and racist. Personally, I think it's important to admit that a blatant incident like that IS racist; it would make your argument that other, smaller interactions don't always fall into that category. </p>
<p>Sometime a duck is a duck.</p>
<p>2incollege, maybe there is more information that wasn't in the Crimson or posted here by Hotpiece (he said he was there). Based on what I read so far, there just isn't any proof that it was a racial incident. There are racial incidents out there, but in this particular situation I don't see a compelling argument. </p>
<p>It just isn't accceptable to me to accuse fellow Harvard students of bigotry when there isn't ample proof. Based on the lack of a sound evidence set, the ease with which one could come up with other plausible scenarios to describe the incident, and the fact that the students who complained have denied racial motivation, I simply cannot see how one could jump to the conclusion that Hotpiece and others have in this thread (and at the school). Again, it could have been something racially based - can we ever know what is in other people's minds? Based on the facts, however, I think we need to give the Harvard students the benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>Actually spidey, I take back my last comment. I was tired and feeling rude about another incident. There was no need for me to attack your mothering skills. that was definitely immature. I'm sorry.</p>
<p>No problem, Trackbabi - it's a heated topic and it was late. FYI...we teach our kids to be color blind with respect to people - we're 100% committed to the "content of the character" concept (with respect to everything - race, religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, etc. etc.). Thanks for apologizing! :)</p>
<p>IMHO the Harvard incident was definitely racist. I don't understand what you mean their isn't sufficient evidence to prove that this incident was racist. When people who go to Harvard are playing football on the quad and people call the cops on them because of their noise and disruption, then that is certainly not racist. however, as Hot piece stated earlier, there have been many times when there were people playing around on the quad and no one really cared and let it go without calling the cops. However, when a group of predominantly black people are playing football outside, people call the cops? These people don't move around form dorm to dorm, they have lived their for most of the year and if they never really cared if anyone else played around on the quad at night, then why would they care to call the police on that specific day? There is no other explanation besides the fact that they were racially motivated. If you don't think that' the case then i would love to hear your opinion.</p>
<p>Sheed30 - my $.02 can be found, at length, in all of my posts on this thread. I mentioned some other possible scenarios in more than one of them.</p>
<p>I read through all your posts but none of them make enough common sense.</p>
<p>Nope, Sheed - they make excellent sense. The represent a pretty objective perspective on a jump to conclusions, or at the very least a reasonable devil's advocate position.</p>
<p>I agree with the previous posters, spideygirl. It was clearly racism. But I see that this something you'll refuse to accept.</p>
<p>Now I know why hotpiece abandoned her conversation with you.</p>
<p>naj7488: If you choose to take your ball and go home because you can't win a debate, I don't know what to say. A discussion is supposed to be a two way street, and it really isn't OK to try to shut down someone else's opinion. This is supposed to be a "discussion" forum. I do think, however, that if a debate or discussion becomes too stressful for you it is probably wise to withdraw. Personally, I don't enter into discussions or debates assuming that the other side is required or obligated to jump over to my way of thinking. That would be a conversation you could more easily have with yourself in front of a mirror.</p>
<p>naj7488: If you choose to take your ball and go home because you can't win a debate, I don't know what to say. A discussion is supposed to be a two way street, and it really isn't OK to try to shut down someone else's opinion. This is supposed to be a "discussion" forum. I do think, however, that if a debate or discussion becomes too stressful for you it is probably wise to withdraw.<<</p>
<p>Spidey, you didn't win anything. It is obvious that you have taken a position, refuse to move from it, and probably haven't had much experience with racism. The Harvard incident is clear, blatant, as obvious as you can get without those kids being knocked off lunch counter seats; many of those kids go through many more subtle interactions everyday that they'd have a harder time justifying were "racist" but that they know they are. Do you think it is racist, for instance, for a salesman, when a black woman answers the door, to ask for the lady of the house? Or simply an honest mistake?</p>
<p>spideygirl...you lost the debate...No one but yourself understands your reasoning...</p>
<p>Sheed, more generalizations? "No one but yourself"...Wow - you speak for everybody? Everywhere? Isn't that a little narcissistic? Also, you might want to brush up on your information. The students accused of bigotry denied it. And I am sure that there is at least one more person than me, somewhere, who might be open minded to the fact that they are being honest. </p>
<p>The people who would like to defend themselves are not posting here, nor is anyone else who supports them. I don't necessarily support them, by the way. I just believe it is unethical to not give someone the benefit of the doubt when there is no proof and when other plausible explanations exist.</p>
<p>2incollege: "Do you think it is racist, for instance, for a salesman, when a black woman answers the door, to ask for the lady of the house? Or simply an honest mistake?"</p>
<p>Is this a rhetorical question? Obviously you have cited a classical example of a racist incident. But mentioning it here does not prove that what occured at Harvard is the same type of situation. It isn't.</p>
<p>Joke: A kid is born in Antarctica to two researchers who happened to be in Antarctica. Therefore, it makes him Antarctican. Since top-tier schools want "diversity", every Ivy would be screaming for him to come. :D</p>
<p>Is this a rhetorical question? Obviously you have cited a classical example of a racist incident. But mentioning it here does not prove that what occured at Harvard is the same type of situation. It isn't.<<</p>
<p>No, the Harvard incident is a MORE obvious example of racism. You, for some reason have decided that you need to hear "the other side," and yet, what could they possibly say to defend themselves? Why isn't the testimony of an African-American Harvard student who was actually involved, on the ground level good enough for you?</p>
<p>spideygirl, i seriously do not understand what you need as proof. You want the people who called the cops to say "I AM RACIST!"? I'm sorry but that will never happen. What do you want as proof?</p>