<p>I would like someone to remove this thread from the site. Everyone is bickering and it is senseless. I imagine by now the OP has received a variety of answers, and can now answer the question they asked...</p>
<p>Moderator?</p>
<p>read the things in this facebook group, spidy. Sometimes direct words are not needed because actions are crystal clear.
<a href="http://cornell.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2402597333%5B/url%5D">http://cornell.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2402597333</a></p>
<p>I agree with embroglio. It would be great if this thread could be removed. CC is viewed by people all around the world who wish to learn about colleges in the US. I don't think that Harvard has been treated fairly on this thread from a PR standpoint.</p>
<p>looks like you're the one who's taking your ball and going home now, spidey...</p>
<p>Nope, naj7488 - I was typing.</p>
<p>However, until the thread is removed, let me answer the last few questions…</p>
<p>Aisdgdavinci – Thank you for the levity. </p>
<p>2incollege: “No, the Harvard incident is a MORE obvious example of racism. You, for some reason have decided that you need to hear "the other side," and yet, what could they possibly say to defend themselves? Why isn't the testimony of an African-American Harvard student who was actually involved, on the ground level good enough for you?”</p>
<p>Is there ever a reason not to hear the other side? That is downright scary! </p>
<p>I also don’t know what to say to the statement “why isn’t the testimony of an African-American student who was actually involved, on the ground level, good enough for you?” Can you not see how this sounds? What if the words “African-American” were removed and “Caucasian” were put in? This is just not a cool way to communicate, and IMHO the last way we can fight racism is by speaking in ways which honor it.</p>
<p>Sheed:” You want the people who called the cops to say "I AM RACIST!"? I'm sorry but that will never happen. What do you want as proof?”</p>
<p>Well, there certainly are situations where racism is pretty glaring and provable (I am sure you can imagine some of the more horrid historical examples). And by the way, there are some evil people on this planet who will come right out and tell you that they are racist. Then there are situations where there really is no other plausible explanation (like the example of a salesperson asking an African-American woman who answers the door, ‘Where is the lady of the house?” What other reason would he have for asking this other than that it has to do with the color of her skin?).</p>
<p>From what I have read on this thread and in the link to the Crimson, there is a real possibility of other plausible scenarios. I have outlined these in previous posts, so I won’t repeat them here as if you are interested you can scroll back.</p>
<p>trackbabi: I haven't looked at the link yet, but I will. I would not be surprised if you found glaring racism on a Facebook page. But the link you provided has nothing to do with this situation. It is to a completely different university. If you found something elsewhere that has no other plausible explanation than that it is racist, that doesn't prove anything about the Harvard incident. </p>
<p>We need to be very careful in these situations. People's reputations and careers are at stake. What if an accusation of racism was wrong? Wouldn't that be awful? And it certainly would make it more difficult to make progress on clearly legitimate cases. My whole point on this thread is to be a voice which recommends restraint and caution (but I am not advocating passivity towards racism or a head-in-the-sand approach to it).</p>
<p>You know, the bottom line here is that the Harvard situation could easily have been resolved quickly with some apologies and accepting of apologies. Whether or not hotpiece is correct in his assumptions about the intentions of certain Cabot residents, clearly his feelings were hurt and others were as well. People's feelings should be acknowledged no matter what. I am not sure based on what I have experienced on this thread if hotpiece would have been open minded to an apology which could at least have focused on unintentional rudeness and insensitivity, but one should have been given nonetheless. Perhaps there is a chance the matter would have ended there. I doubt it but it should have been done anyway.</p>
<p>Firstly, hotpiece is a girl. Secondly, I personally know her and I have found her to be one of the most openminded people I know and she's always giving others the benefit of the doubt. So, I don't doubt for a second that this was a racist incident.</p>
<p>And as for PR at Harvard, I think it is completely appropriate for people to know that Harvard is not perfect and that racial tensions exist there.</p>
<p>and racial tensions exist everywhere, an elite school like Harvard should not be exempt.Spidy, you know you're kind of like the Minister of Magic, Fudge, from Harry Potter. Fail to accept fact when evidence is laying on the table in front of you.</p>
<p>lmao, burned harry potter style!</p>
<p>Spideygirl, Just one question (Well, actually, two). What would be YOUR explanation for the claims of some Cabot residents that the kids on the quad, "didn't LOOK like Harvard students? What would be YOUR reasons for ignoring repeated email messages, insisting that they knew the kids on the quad, and that they WERE INDEED Harvard students, who had every permission, indeed RIGHT, to do what they were doing?</p>
<p>No, actually here's a third question: Did it ever occur to you that overt e-mail declarations of racism (as in, I'm a racist and the presence of so many black kids out on the lawn offends me.") would be just a tad bit too Un-PC for general Harvard consumption? Racism has to be couched in more subtle terms today (especially on elite, supposedly "liberal" campuses), but that doesn't make it any less what it is).</p>
<p>I respect you spideygirl for trying to bring your point up and arguing for the other side (since this debate seems pretty one-sided), but in your humble opinion, do you think that the Harvard incident was a mistake and that their weren't any racist thoughts at all?</p>
<p>Spideygirl,</p>
<p>I have been following this thread for the past couple of days and your postings in particular.</p>
<p>what sums up your feelings is the statement :</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't think that Harvard has been treated fairly on this thread from a PR standpoint.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What I find disturbing is that you are so quick and willing to marginalize a student's first hand account of her experience at Harvard and at some level you believe that just because it is Harvard that this type of behavior could not possibly happen there. You make statements like "if there is any validity to her concern"... and how they must have caught Cabot on the wrong day and perhaps things would have been different because </p>
<p>
[quote]
Isn’t it possible that possible that it was just a different day, and a different group of grumpier people in Cabot? Is it possible that Emails were not read, or that the internet communication was getting combative (thereby making those who were bothered by the noise more inclined to dig in their heels)?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Newsflash!! Harvard is not perfect, because people attend Harvard and people are not perfect. Yes, people do stupid things, they can act like jerks and they can show us their less than stellar selves, including doing things that are inherently racist. </p>
<p>You ability to choose to poo-poo the situation and then make statements like </p>
<p>
[quote]
My son went to Kindergarten having no ideas about skin color. The shade of people’s skin meant no more to him than different shades of blue or pink. Because of a well-intentioned but myopic liberal curriculum, he learned at age 5 to notice skin color (and an overview of human history regarding it). I was pretty angry that his sociological innocence was taken at too young an age.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>only shows your myopic view of the world and possibly a culturally encapsulated one at that unless there are absolutely not people of color where you live and maybe supports your belief that perhaps others people's history and struggle in this country does not matter (because every race has had their struggle in this country and we must all remain cognizant of it, value and respest it if we are ever going to do away with racism). Because way before my child was 5 years old I made it my business to expose her to people of different faces and backgrounds because racism stems from ignorance and people are afraid of what they don't understand.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You know, the bottom line here is that the Harvard situation could easily have been resolved quickly with some apologies and accepting of apologies. Whether or not hotpiece is correct in his assumptions about the intentions of certain Cabot residents, clearly his feelings were hurt and others were as well. People's feelings should be acknowledged no matter what.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>My question is that in 2007, why did this situation happen in the first place? At the end of the day it is not about taking one's ball and going home but maybe one should pull their head out of the sand, or perhaps take off their rose colored glasses see that racism is alive and well in 2007 and racist acts take place even at that the bastion of higher education known as Harvard.</p>
<p>Wow Sybbie - You really have not been following this thread (you certainly have not read all of my posts, or if you have your comprehension was very poor). You response reads like you have not looked at even one thing I have posted. Love the personal assumptions and attacks, BTW. Great debate style. I'll just sum up your post for now, and get back to specifics later: Every single paragraph has mistake after mistake about me and the way I think about the Harvard incident and life in general. If I were a professor, I'd have to give you an "F" for failure to properly analyze the material given to you (thereby writing a pathetic esssay about it). Although if I was a professor, I'd find a nicer term for "pathetic".</p>
<p>I guess when people have little else to offer a debate in terms of constructive input, the refuge for some is to get nasty and personal. I am pretty surprised that a senior CC member wouldn't know better, but whatever none of us are perfect.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I guess when people have little else to offer a debate in terms of constructive input, the refuge for some is to get nasty and personal. I am pretty surprised that a senior CC member wouldn't know better, but whatever none of us are perfect.
[/quote]
Interesting that you would write this, spidey... Wasn't it you who accused hotpiece of being close-minded, of not reaching out to people who aren't black?</p>
<p>As a black Harvard grad who even has been active in alum affairs at a national level, I think that Harvard has been treated very fairly in this thread. No institution is perfect. There's racism at even places like Harvard, and the only way that racism will end is by people discussing racist incidents, not hiding them out of concerns about PR.</p>
<p>Sheed “I respect you spideygirl for trying to bring your point up and arguing for the other side (since this debate seems pretty one-sided), but in your humble opinion, do you think that the Harvard incident was a mistake and that their weren't any racist thoughts at all?” </p>
<p>Thank you for the respectful and appropriate tone, Sheed. After reading the past few posts to me by others I appreciate the maturity. If you scroll back a few posts of mine I already answered this question very specifically. I think more than once.</p>
<p>Naj7488: “Secondly, I personally know her and I have found her to be one of the most open-minded people I know and she's always giving others the benefit of the doubt. So, I don't doubt for a second that this was a racist incident….And as for PR at Harvard, I think it is completely appropriate for people to know that Harvard is not perfect and that racial tensions exist there.”</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about Hotpiece personally; my focus is purely on statements about this particular incident at Harvard. With the painful history regarding race relations in this country, even the most impeccably honest person, someone truly open minded, could make a mistake. I think at this point I it is important for you or anyone else reading this to go back and carefully review Hotpiece’s posts and assess for themselves what they think. </p>
<p>Also, I agree that it is appropriate for people to know the truth about all schools. On this thread, however, none of the students who were accused of racism, nor those who know and support them, is choosing to post. My $.02 is that we should all slow down and not jump to conclusions when there are other plausible explanations (and listen to people when they deny something if there is a chance they could be telling the truth). That is not really giving Harvard (with respect to this incident) a fair shake as all sides are not being heard from. I believe in justice and fairness, and only hearing from one side is neither of those things (and might not give that accurate information about Harvard that people deserve to hear).</p>
<p>Trackbabi: “and racial tensions exist everywhere, an elite school like Harvard should not be exempt. Spidy, you know you're kind of like the Minister of Magic, Fudge, from Harry Potter. Fail to accept fact when evidence is laying on the table in front of you.”</p>
<p>Despite you apology for being inappropriate a few posts back, perhaps another stressful incident somewhere else has brought out another juvenile remark? Since you pm’d me to apologize I decided to not point out something that I found to be very disappointing:</p>
<p>Trackbabi: “Here's some advice: Live life in the shoes of a Black person and you will start to see the world painted in colors that mean things.”</p>
<p>How do you know what color my skin is, Trackbabi???</p>
<p>naj7488: "Interesting that you would write this, spidey... Wasn't it you who accused hotpiece of being close-minded, of not reaching out to people who aren't black?"</p>
<p>Nope - untrue. Hotpiece got heated and emotional, and left the debate, after erroneously interpreting my thoughts and putting words in my mouth. Scroll back and read my earlier posts to Hotpiece to see my exact words. If you keep an open mind towards my intentions, and do not make blanket assumptions about me based on the position I took in this debate, then you will see that you are completely incorrect.</p>
<p>
This implies that you think she only cares to be friends with people who have a certain skin color.</p>
<p>
Here you imply that she is close-minded...In my reading of sybbie's post, I didn't find anything more judgmental than what you wrote about hotpiece.</p>
<p>Northstarmom: "the only way that racism will end is by people discussing racist incidents"</p>
<p>I totally agree. That is why I am sticking around in this debate (I believe in the process). </p>
<p>The word "discussing" it is key here, because some here have been angered by my trying to discuss it (others have openly stated that the other side should not even be considered). With only one side presented, and then only my voice stating to at least listen to the other side (without an ability to defend or condemn the Cabot residents, as I wasn't there), that is pretty one-sided and not much of a discussion at all.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Spidey, it has been asked numerous times that if the event was not racially charged, then why did the residents of Cabot House still call the police when they knew the students on the grass? Yet, you keep skipping over this glaring fact.</p>