100% agree. Physics is definitely more important for the college she chooses, but she is really talented (I know everyone says that about their kid, so take with a grain of salt), so if feels like a bit of a betrayal to herself if she doesn’t at least keep that door slightly ajar. A BA program at a smallish school that puts on audition-based musical theater productions (i.e. they don’t just cast from their BFA pool) would be ideal.
Merit scholarships are generally given to students that they want but who would likely gain acceptance to a higher ranked school.
There has been a lot of discussion about ED and merit.
Some schools value a lot of demonstrated interest.
We are a strongly secular family as well and DePaul is known as one of the most liberal colleges in the country (not just among Catholic schools, but among ALL colleges). Religion is there if you want it, but otherwise it is hardly noticeable. My D is agnostic/atheist. Her roommate’s boyfriend is Jewish and is in the Jewish frat at DePaul.
I know nothing about Physics (and I was an international student ~10 years ago, so I can’t provide a lot of insight about which schools will hit budget with merit, so apologies if I’m about to suggest schools that won’t make budget), but I know a lot about musical theatre. It seems to me that your D should be investigating programs with musical theatre MINORS, which are much less common than MT majors.
Ohio State, Miami Ohio, UIUC, Virginia Commonwealth, SJSU, Loyola Chicago, and Drew University have MT minors that you may want to look into if those schools align with other aspects of your list.
ETA: Michigan State also has a MT minor.
All great except they want top 50 school and merit or under 60K. I think these things are almost mutually exclusive… except few public exceptions (like GaTech with no theater major or minor). UIUC COA is 61k. Merit OOS listed as 10k with preference for students with FA. There are some internal schools awards but they are not even listed. Ohio State actually may work. I know they sometimes give good awards for OOS students.
I don’t fully agree with this. You have to batch merit schools into different categories:
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Some are auto merit - so that’s why I know with a 4.0 unweighted, you will get $32K off at Arizona. At a 3.9, it’s $30K. At 3.75, it’s $20K. Other auto merit schools - not for you - but are Alabama, UAH, Mississippi State, Truman State, Mizzou, Iowa State and many more. You look at a chart. Some are GPA only. Some are GPA + test - it takes all the guessing out.
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Others - and here’s an urban one I don’t think was mentioned - are like South Carolina. They don’t tell you the amount - but they have tables that give you likely amounts and you typically end up there or better. Miami of Ohio is another - they do the “at least…”
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Others have OOS waivers - and while no one knows the exact reason - but like FSU, people think it’s based on - if you have - the other year it was a 31 ACT. It might be higher now - but you’d get that. Someone mentioned FSU - great school - urban it’s not but small city.
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Then you have the unknowns - the Rochesters, etc. So Demonstrated Interest is a tough thing - because we’ve seen some studs get turned down at not so studly schools - and it could be that the student expressed no interest and the school wants to have a good yield so - it turns them down, knowing if they didn’t engage, they’re not going to be accepting the acceptance. So DI matters.
But to your point - my daughter had interest in American U and we had read on here that some got $25K in merit. My daughter had stats well above the norm. We visited on their preview day and she did a few on line meetings and would email the counselor…trying to create questions to ask just for sake of interest. And she got $15K - and it didn’t hit budget so we removed it from the list.
Then there are others - CU Boulder - everyone seemed to get $6250 off a year. U Miami - most everyone seemed to get $25K off a year. U Denver - her year top kids got $27K off and now I think it’s $30K. When you see lesser merit amounts and you look at the stats, they’re also lesser kids from a stats POV.
But on those that don’t publish, there is absolutely a level of subjectivity. Are you from Wyoming - maybe we’ll pay more? Are you a tuba player and we need one? Maybe we’ll pay more? Are you applying to a major like Classics that’s under enrolled - maybe we’ll pay more? Are you an ethnicity or religion or whatever it is - maybe we’ll pay more.
There’s really no way to know.
But if a school desires demonstrated interest, I would do so. It was just last year, folks from CWRU were saying they got an email saying - you never interacted with us so we’re going to pull your application (if I’m not mistaken) or maybe it was off the mailing list. In essence, CWRU has a very low yield and obvously wants to improve it.
So - merit is interesting and I can’t 100% say the answer on those that aren’t very clear about it - but I would say, the more the better - but there’s no assured answer.
The other thing we know that is - often many schools like wealthy families. So the fact that you’re full pay - at many places - will lead to your favor - and that doesn’t mean they won’t incent. Merit is what you noted - a discount - and they still know as you’ve already said - we might like this school - but not at $80K. But if they can get you at $50K and know you’ve got good finances and will be good for it each year - advantage to you at those aware schools!!
Good luck.
University of Denver would be worth a look, as it seems to check a lot of your boxes: possibility for big merit, big city (with a vibrant performing arts scene as long as you don’t have NYC-level expectations), offers desired majors. I don’t know much about the departments, so it’s worth looking into facilities, faculty, courses, etc. But the physics department includes graduate programs, so they likely offer some advanced opportunities for undergrads, too. Students often live off campus at some point – ratio is about 50/50, so probably mostly after sophomore year.
But note that merit is much easier to come by for an audition-based BFA student with great academics, than for a strong physics student with great ECs in theater.
My D18 got great merit when applying for ballet (based on her strong academic record 4.0/35 ACT/9 APs with 8 5s, NM Commended), but not when applying for academic subjects (even though the dance certainly helped her to get admitted at UCB/UCLA). She got a full ride at Utah, instate tuition waiver at UT Austin, Regents at UCI/UCSB, 75% off tuition at Fordham etc.
Throwing out a school that hasn’t been mentioned yet that ticks a few boxes: McGill (in Montreal). From their website, a very strong physics program - they offer one very intense honors physics program, and one more general liberal arts physics program. McGill’s tuition is around $40,000 (Canadian dollars, so less in US dollars), and I think that students typically live in dorms only one year, and some of the dorms are very apartment-like. So, she’d be able to get physics, the right tuition, and an amazing city experience there. I don’t see any musical theatre options, though. (But, it looks like there is a very strong music department and maybe in such a vibrant city as Montreal there would be other options for MT.) In any event, I thought I throw it out there as an option.
I know one student just starting at Northwestern with 30k/year scholarship from their school of music. He is attending for dual degree. The scholarship brings down the cost of attendance to sub 60k/year. I also know two students attending U Michigan with similar package - dual degree with scholarship from school or music theatre&dance.
However, these two schools are not in big city.
Yeah, looks like Duke gives almost no non-need merit (2%) Merit Aid by Institution – College Transitions
The northwestern scholarships are only for Bienen students. I think MT is not in the school of music.
Can your D apply for music scholarships for classical voice? It opens an enormous amount of scholarship money.
[quote=“Illinoisparent12, post:89, topic:3647410, full:true”]
Throwing out a school that hasn’t been mentioned yet that ticks a few boxes: McGill (in Montreal).[/quote]
oooh, yes, it was on my list briefly. I’ll look into it again. The price is lovely and Montreal is amazing. Looks like they only have Vocal Performance though, not MT, and even their theater is embedded in their English department. Bummer.
I’d also consider Carnegie-Mellon (strong STEM and Theater), Reed, and Occidental.
We are not psyched on Arizona. Worse in most areas than UofU, and she would feel bummed about a school with 87% acceptance rate after all her hard work. I am talking her off the prestige chase a bit, but it’s hard to shift the mindset from a top tier to a “party school” where, in her mind, basically anyone can get in. (We also don’t like the physical or political climate). But for financial reasons it is a good option for sure. It doesn’t help that she knows that we could pay full retail for any of these schools, but we just think that is a very bad idea and not at all justified from a ROI standpoint.
The student does not have to decide between “top tier” and “party school.” It is not an either/or situation, and there are plenty of partiers at “top tier” schools. There are also plenty of non party people at “party” schools (I am sure you know this).
I recognize that convincing a HS junior is hard. My daughter received full tuition to Pitt and refused to attend, partly because she did not want urban and partly because of a ridiculous comment made by another student. Pitt is a phenomenal school btw.
Most students (not all) need to give up some selectivity in order to obtain merit. By no means does this mean that the student will be attending a terrible school. They will not!
Plenty of valedictorians take the merit to honors colleges and have a great 4 years with many positive experiences. Good luck as you navigate this process- it isn’t always fun or easy.
It seems to me that some OOS publics will come within your range, even without merit.
I have feeling that given “difficult” competing requirements, once OP’s daughter will find a real “fit”, they will stay with those schools no matter the price (as long as it is not 90k - I am looking at UCs). So yes, they need to move to top 100. But there is no way for that kid to go to a school with 80% acceptance even for free. My DD also refused to go to school with 60-80% acceptance. 50% acceptance is different story, especially when school has high bar for acceptance built into application requirements or known minimal GPA.
I also have a feeling that to be successful in both so different majors and not to be overwhelmed from work with opportunity to enjoy college life instead of running from production to the lab, a student will benefit from going to school ranked 50 to 100 vs top 50. So school like Oberlin maybe good fit apart from remote location.
There is no reason for this particular student to attend a school with an 80% acceptance rate (unless she wants to). She can, however, attend a school such as Ohio State, likely be in the honors program, and possibly get some merit. The same goes for Pitt. Lafayette is another that may work (?).
If I were you, I would stick to “Engineering”/“Science” strong LACS (Lehigh, Bucknell, Oberlin) and will play diversity card to the fullest. Such schools will help your daughter to balance both majors or major with big productions. On the other hand, it would be major problem in a big public.