What Schools Should I Apply To?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

After getting rejected from Columbia, I’ve taken a long and hard look at myself and my apps. I know, I shouldn’t get spooked by just one rejection, but I’m feeling really insecure about my chances especially since my extremely qualified friends (and sister) didn’t do so well. In the summer, I created a list of schools that I’ll apply to, and I’ve finished the supplements. I’m going to look for a few more schools to give myself peace of mind and hopefully more options.
Also, I already made similar threads pre-rejection, but the opinions vary wildly, from “apply to all the Ivies!” to “have you looked into community college?” I’m hoping that different opinions will help me make these decisions more easily.

Stats:
SAT: 2300 (750 CR, 800 M, 750 W 8 E, first sitting)
GPA: 3.8 UW, 4.45 W
Class Rank: ?/625. School district does not officially rank, but I am in the 30s, so top 5-6%.
SAT II: Chinese (740), USH (770), Math II (770), Bio M (720)
AP: Human Geo (5) USH (5) Lang (5) Micro (5) Macro (5) Bio (4) Chinese (4) Euro (4) Physics B (3) Japanese (3)
IB: Diploma candidate, SL math (5) SL Econ (6)
Future tests/current courseload:
AP Calc AB, HL Japanese, HL English (possibly AP Lit), HL Chem (and AP Chem), SL Art History
I can list my past courseload if you want.

Extracurriculars:
-Volunteer leader in a program run by a neighboring city- grades 9, 10, 11, 12. 28hr/week, 3week/year. no leadership opportunities, the only way to “move up” is to get hired. Summary from my app: “Organized projects and games suited to various age groups; responsible for overseeing, leading youth activities; selected for recognition by the city”
-club fencing- grades 9, 10, 11, 12. 6 hr/week, 48 weeks/year. I’ve done a few competitions here and there, gone to nationals and JO
violin- on my own (private teacher, I participate in CM which is a performance test kinda) as well as school orchestra 6hr/week, 34week/year where I’m principal second (I lead the second violin players) as well as an outside orchestra 4hr/week, 36week/yr where I now play first violin. We performed at the famed Walt Disney Concert Hall. World Relief Chamber Music- grades 9, 10. 3 hrs/week, 40 weeks/year. an orchestra that raised money (around $12000/year when I was there) for a natural disaster every year, also played in nursing homes.
-Girl Scouts-2hr/week, 26week/year. I’m the treasurer, sometimes I chair events too.
-YLA-grades 11, 12. 3hr/week, 30week/year. I’m a sponsorship coordinator, responsible for outreach, fundraising, and, of course, sponsorships
FASCA- grades 10, 11, 12. 4hr/week, 3week/year. A cultural association aimed towards Asian-American youths, specifically those of Taiwanese descent.
-NHS- grade 12. 2hr/week, 10week/year. peer tutoring after school, not much to say
-a few other unimportant ECs

High honors awards (school)
CSF, NHS, Distinguished Scholar (basically honor roll for the entire year)

Other awards:
National Merit Commended (I was one point away from semifinalist, of course I’m not salty or anything…)
National AP Scholar
1st Team USA Fencing All-Academic
VOCE Honorable Mention (a competition for musicians, competed under “solo strings”
Recognized by the neighboring city for my dedication to volunteering and helping the community. There’s no official title, but I got “recognized” by the city, free lunch and pin yay
some fencing awards
not an award, but I included the abstract for my EE in the additional info section

Internship/work experience
none

Essays: I think my common app is decent! nothing groundbreaking, but 7-8/10
Teacher Rec: I asked four teachers, since the max for a few schools that I applied to was 4. They’re listed in order. So, if 2 recs were allowed I invited the first 2 teachers, if 3 were allowed I invited the first three teachers, etc.
Econ teacher (grade 11): likes me better than average, did well in his class, supposedly writes amazing LOR
Language arts teacher (grade 11): same as above
Chemistry teacher (grades 9 and 12): took two of his chem classes, he’s a perfectionist
Japanese teacher (grades 9 10 11 12): has a really good idea of my personality, but iffy on whether her LOR are good
Counselor Rec: he really likes me, and his LOR was nice and flattering. 8-9/10

School: public magnet in CA, not sure if it’s considered large or small? class size is 625
Gender: Female
Ethnicity: Asian
Intended major: economics

Current list of schools (I will not trim this list, as the apps are nearly all finished):
Brandeis University
Brown University
Carnegie Mellon University
Claremont McKenna College
Emory University
Rice University
University of Chicago (EA)
UC Berkeley, Los Angeles, Irvine, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz
University of Southern California
Washington University in St. Louis

Schools that I am considering (welcome to suggestions, additions, and cuts!):
Boston College
Case Western Reserve University
Dartmouth College
Northeastern University
Temple University
University of Pennsylvania
Vanderbilt University

Preferences:
urban > suburban (no rural), mid-large, no overt religious influence, on either coast, slight preference for warmer climates. I can compromise on all but rural location and religious influence if I like the school enough. I don’t want to apply EDII.

I would appreciate suggestions as well as school names! Especially those that have minimal/no supplements, since time is my biggest constraint. If there are schools with activity/EC or “why major” essays, that’s fine too! To be clear, I’m not selecting schools based on how little I have to write, it’s just that time is such a big limitation that I’ll have to look through those schools only instead of all schools (ex. Stanford has too many prompts).

I don’t need to talk about safeties or finances (discussed in another thread). I guess I’m just not sure how I should react to my rejection: should I apply to more selective schools, hoping that the odds are in my favor? Or should I apply to less selective schools to make sure I get in enough places to have options?

Also, if anyone applied to Georgetown University, could you tell me about the supplement? I had considered Georgetown and was pretty interested but I wasn’t able to see the supplement so I didn’t apply.

2

Georgetown supplement is 4 rather long essays - if time is an issue, look elsewhere.

I honestly think your list is fine. Columbia rejects about 75% of perfect scorers, so one deferral shouldn’t be cause to reevaluate your application list.

However, I strongly suggest you don’t submit 3-4 teacher LOR’s. It forces readers to skim through each one (they only have 10-15 minutes to read your app), and can seem like you’re trying to compensate for weakness in other areas. Two is both the minimum and the maximum you want to submit to any school where adcoms have to get through 30 applications a day. If you have an additional rec, that’s OK, but don’t have 3-4 teacher LOR’s.

3

@NotVerySmart Wow, I didn’t know Georgetown’s supplement was so long. Thanks.
I didn’t get deferred, I got rejected, which makes me wonder if I was reaching way too high if I didn’t even get deferred.

I’ve already invited the teachers but I can delete it with the trash can button, right? I’ve already submitted to CMC and USC, though. Which teachers should I keep, econ and chem or econ and language arts? What if the minimum is 2 but 3 are allowed?

I recognize your username and picture- are you from the UChicago EA thread?

4

Whether it’s a deferral or a rejection, anything can happen to a single application. I don’t see anything in your profile that suggests Columbia was more of a reach for you than for most applicants.

Not entirely sure how to submit recommendations through the CA - my school uses naviance - but your GC can probably help. As for schools allowing 3 or 4, they still tend to prefer 2 teacher letters, for reasons I outlined above.

Hopefully, CMC and USC won’t care all that much - CMC has fewer applicants than places like Columbia, so admissions officers may be able to read through a longer application, while the UC’s are primarily stats-based.

UChicago indeed - class of 2020 or bust. Good luck.

5

Oh, okay. Since I was rejected, I figured that in Columbia’s eyes, I could be anywhere from almost-deferred to total trash. And if I was closer to total trash than almost-deferred, I would have figured that I was aiming too high and should readjust accordingly.

In your opinion, which combination of rec letters is better? I’ll definitely keep the econ teacher’s letter but between the chem teacher and language arts teacher, it’s a bit of a tossup. My chem teacher doesn’t particularly like or dislike most of his students, including me. I thought that my language arts teacher didn’t particularly like me, but a friend said that she did because I participated in class.

USC isn’t a UC, though UC Berkeley did request 2 LOR! I hope they won’t think too much about the LOR, but I didn’t submit 4 to either school, since CMC requires and allows 2, while USC requires none and allows 3.

Best of luck to you as well! Maybe I’ll see you next fall :stuck_out_tongue:

6

Ah, my bad on USC.

With regards to letters of rec, I don’t think it’s responsible for me to comment on letters I haven’t read - just as I wouldn’t presume to comment on essays, except in clear-cut cases (e.g. a kid who wants to write about how he/she has always seen the world differently from his/her dimwitted classmates).

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I’ve heard that it’s preferable to have a math/science teacher write a LOR. If this is true, I’d choose the chem teacher’s LOR even if the language arts teacher’s was better (and I don’t know which is better).

8

oops @NotVerySmart I didn’t tag you!
Considering that usually a math/science teacher is recommended, should I only send econ and chem teacher LOR?

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I’m really not qualified to comment on specific LOR’s. I suggest you ask your GC.

10

You are considering adding schools to your list that consider interest as part of admissions, and at this late date I assume you have shown nine (eg, Case Western). So that could work against you at schools you think are matches or safeties. Google “Common Data Set” and the college name, and look at the section where it says what is considered for admissions. If student interest is considered, you have a challenge if you haven’t visited or gone to a local info session or signed in with them at a college fair. Sign up at their admissions site for emails/mailings right away, and give special attention to details in any “Why X” essay.

You already have 7 reaches (8 if you include Columbia). I would apply to more matches and safeties.

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@intparent What would you consider to not be a reach on the original list?

I cast a pretty wide net for the extra list in that I added schools that I wasn’t particularly interested in but had no supplement (Case Western, Northeastern).

As of now, I will most likely apply to BC since it was on my original list and I already sent scores. Howeve I will not apply to Case Western or Dartmouth since I can’t see myself there. I’ll apply to Temple ASAP since they have rolling admissions.

I can’t tell if Northeastern considers demonstrated interest since the common data set page can’t be found (http://www.northeastern.edu/oir/dataset/common.html) but Vanderbilt doesn’t so I’ll apply there- it was on my original list but the person who helps me with essays will only edit 10 schools’ essays, so that’s why it wasn’t there. I’ll consider UPenn if I have enough time.

I also meant to put Fordham on the possible list, though I can’t access their common data set (it requires a username and password?)

I’m welcome to more suggestions, but at this point I really don’t think I need more safeties, since I’m guaranteed admission into a UC and I have a guaranteed scholarship to Temple with my stats. Is this assumption that I don’t need more safeties correct?

Also, on the UCB website they have a chart with the average GPA of total applicants and applicants who were accepted. Is this UW GPA? I know that UCLA differentiates between UC and UW GPA.

12

I think Brandeis, Emory, USC, and maybe some of the UCs except for Berkeley are matches – but a California person could say better than I can on the UCs.

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@intparent If I have 4-5 matches and 2-3 safeties, would you not consider them enough?

Also, I’m not trying to challenge the methodology you use when determining what school is a reach, match, and safety, but I’m a little confused as to why Emory (avg GPA 3.7-3.97) and USC (avg GPA 3.82) are considered matches while Carnegie Mellon (avg GPA 3.8 for Dietrich and 3.84 for Tepper, the econ program is a joint effort between the two schools) is considered a reach. Of course there are other factors but it seems like for a quick estimate, people use avg GPA and SAT, and my stats are just as closely in line with CMU as for Emory and USC. Another one is Rice- how do you know that Rice will be a reach when the average GPA isn’t even reported, and my SAT is within 25%-75%?

I’m not being really defensive because I think you misjudged me and I think that all these schools should be matches/safeties. I’m just pretty confused at how you determine what school is a reach, match, or safety. If I look at the stats only, your judgments seem confusing and arbitrary.

Thank you for your time and effort.

14

Going to be honest, I think GPA is pretty irrelevant if you have 3.8 or above, except at a few state schools like UCs. So I don’t generally think it comes into play unles it is low. Colleges mislead students on this point, in my opinion.

Rice only accepts 15% of applicants. CMU often surprises me at who they don’t accept. That is why I think they aren’t matches, although CMU maybe a high match.

15

@intparent Other than USC’s 18% acceptance rate, I understand what you mean. Thank you.
Would you agree that, as a rough guideline, schools with 25-35% acceptance rates are matches?

16

Have you ever considered applying to Syracuse, Duke, Johns Hopkins, or Northwestern?

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Except for Syracuse, those are 3 more reaches. I would say a school with a 25-35% acceptance rate where your scores are above the 50% mark and you have shown interest if they consider it are matches. Of course, I have no idea if your essays are sufficient or how your recs read.

18

@MizAZN
I considered all of them, but only fleetingly. Why did you suggest these schools? I did see that both Duke and Northwestern have highly ranked econ depts. According to collegedata.com (is it accurate?) Syracuse considers level of interest very important, so I think I’ll pass. Thank you for your input, though.
@intparent
Would you happen to know if Northeastern considers interest? I wasn’t able to access the common data set. Also, what would you consider a safety? Does >45% acceptance rate sound about right? I don’t know about most of my recs either, but would you be willing to read my essay(s)?

19

Sorry, I don’t read essays for anyone except my own kids. I Googled and easily found their common data set – interest is “considered”. Their acceptance rate for women was 32% in the most recent CDS. I can’t give you an exact percentage for a safety. Schools that think you are using them as a safety will often waitlist – they want to protect their yield. You seem too panicked about this in general… too many schools and a scattershot approach.

20

@intparent
Sorry about that, I think I followed an old link to Northeastern’s common data set that didn’t work! I found the most recent one, though.

What do you mean by scattershot approach? I have a core list that I am definitely applying to and a list of schools to possibly supplement the core list.

I am, admittedly, panicked, because the schools that I thought were high matches, such as CMU, Rice, and UC Berkeley, are actually reaches according to some people here. In addition, I was rejected, not deferred, from Columbia, which makes me think that I was reaching way too high and need to adjust my list.