<p>Ok, this thread is overtaking my life … my son and I went on a tour today (in the greater Boston area; temp = 80) … clothing report follows (and yes I did count).</p>
<ul>
<li><p>13 people on the tour … the guide and 12 touring folks</p></li>
<li><p>pants/shorts count … 1 pair of khaki pants … and 12 pairs of shorts (women applicants, male applicants, moms, dads) … the one person in khaki pants was the guide</p></li>
<li><p>shirt count … 1 collared shirt / 7 summer tops / 5 t-shirts … the guide was wearing a school polo shirt; everyone else had some casual but non-trashy top on</p></li>
<li><p>shoe count … 8 pairs of sandels, 3 pairs of sneakers, and 2 pairs of women’s flat loafer thingys.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Not sure I saw much of the school but I certainly checked out what everyone was wearing … this crew apparently was not aware of what is appropriate for tours (and the school suggested short one-one talks with each student touring).</p>
<p>This was not a great school … and I would make the general comment that the level of dress on average does seem to go up as the selectivity of the school goes up … in addition, the number of people from each family attending tours seems to go up on average also as the selectivity of the school goes up. Not a huge sample size so not sure how accurate this is … or why it would happen? … or if it has any relevance? But it was something I had noticed before this thread started and now it quite evident on tours.</p>
<p>3togo, so glad we’re done with tours for our rising senior, or I’d be doing the same thing you did!</p>
<p>I will note that on about a third of our tours, there was no meaningful adult involvement at all…you sign up, show up, walk around a campus with a college kid. No one really knows or cares who you are and certainly not what you’re wearing.</p>
<p>woody, I did mean exactly what I said; I chose my words carefully because I meant “feel good in it” to comprehend a bit more than physical comfort. I “feel good in” my clothes when I feel comfortable, nice-looking (within the limits of the possible), and in harmony with my surroundings and situation.</p>
<p>There are times where you must choose clothes for another reason besides feeling good in them. For instance, I think a tuxedo is one of the most uncomfortable outfits on the face of the earth. No matter how stylish a look it may be, no matter how appropriate it may be to the occasion, I <em>never</em> feel good in one. But as a musician, there are times when I simply have to wear one. C’est la vie.</p>
<p>A college tour is not like that–especially not for the parents. It’s a time when your dress, within very broad limits, is of no consequence whatsoever, so I don’t see why a sensible person would choose his clothes on any other basis than what “feels good” in the broader sense described above. For some people that might be a blazer and khakis; for others, a T-shirt and shorts. Vive la difference.</p>
<p>^ I’ve got about 10 more to go with child #2 … and then start all over again with the 3rd one … by the time he’s done I’ll be reporting brand names of the cloths as well as accessories.</p>
<p>OK, I should have said “How do I identify American tourists vs. tourists of other nationalities”. I know as tourists, people usually dress more casually since they aren’t going to the office, but can you be comfortable other than wearing shorts and t shirts? Does an extra collar add that much discomfort? Or a couple more inches to your shorts? Small details can change from looking sloppy to smart.</p>
<p>"can you be comfortable other than wearing shorts and t shirts? Does an extra collar add that much discomfort? Or a couple more inches to your shorts? "</p>
<p>The crux of the issue. If you’re taking a week-long hike thru Death Valley in August, I can see the shorts and t-shirt. I tend to think hour-long church services and 3-hour college tours are in a different category, whereas it’s-my-sacred-duty-to-keep-myself-comfy gotta-wear-shorts guy apparently sees both Death Valley and Swarthmore as equivalently appropriate opportunities to break out the Bermudas.</p>
<p>Obviously we’re talking matters of degree here. If someone showed up for a college tour in a Speedo or a bathrobe (or, for that matter, a tux), I would find that a bit…puzzling? distracting? amusing? Some of each. Of course I would notice, and I would shake my head–though I like to think I would shake my head tolerantly and sympathetically, assume there was a story behind the eccentric outfit, and hope that the story was an amusing rather than a distressing one.</p>
<p>I think what baffles me is how important it seems to be to some of you not merely to look the way you want to, but to impress on everyone else the importance of looking the way you want to. It’s the persistence and intensity of that prescriptive impulse, combined with the fairly obvious contempt in your language for those who don’t follow your prescriptions, that I have trouble with (e.g., expressions like “can’t be bothered,” as if people who dress differently from you are just being lazy or careless rather than really taking a different view of what’s appropriate).</p>
<p>I mean, turn it around. You say that the difference between what seems appropriate to you and what doesn’t is something small–a few inches on the cuff line of the shorts, a collar vs. no collar on the shirt. So if the difference is indeed small, why can’t you just ignore it? Why do you feel the need to insist on its importance? Why can’t you let a hundred flowers bloom?</p>
<p>In my experience it’s 3-hour synagogue services and hour-long college tours, with a huge gulf in dressiness between them. I don’t see guys wearing suits/coat and tie and dress oxfords at any school I’ve toured with D1. Conversely, no shorts-wearing dads (or moms) at shul.</p>
<p>Slithey, congrats on holding onto some dignity in your religion. Somewhere in the '70’s the Catholic services I attend morphed from having Last-Supper solemnity to Animal-House casualness (clothing-wise). I was never a coat-and-tie guy for church, and even wear blue jeans most of the time, but I would never think of wearing a t-shirt, a wife-beater, sandals, or shorts, like so many others do.</p>
<p>Also, whoever is claiming the less-casual here are demanding suits or sport coats is really exaggerating our position. Pizzagirl doesn’t mind shorts, she just wants them to be distinguishable from the ones you wore when you fixed your transmission; I’m all for very casual, very lightweight clothing (cotton or linen, wrinkles ok, even those shirt-weight elastic-waist pants are fine…I just think a few small touches like no tank tops, no shorts, no sandals, and a collar, make a huge difference without sacrificing comfort, as cbreeze pointed out in post #246).</p>
<p>The last time I went to mass (a long long time ago - 1960s), people would probably have looked upon you wearing blue jeans as you seem to look upon people wearing shorts to a summer college tour. If you were in different parts of the world (or at particular other churches) they probably still would look upon you that way. Different customs, different geographies, and different times all affect how people think and even how they judge others. Maybe wearing shorts for a preppie college is out of the norm but I can guarantee you that it isn’t out of the norm for a large campus in the West, even at highly selective campuses like UCLA, UCB, etc. Whether you like that norm or not is of course, just a personal opinion and your right, but be careful before unduly judging those others since your conclusions may be wildly incorrect.</p>
<p>As for WHY…I think most of us are old enough to have seen major shifts in the way people dress in a lot of situations: air travel, nicer restaurants, shopping, casual Friday, high school, etc. Not all of these changes are for the best. Who among us has not winced at the 300 lb. lady at the supermarket wearing tight knit shorts and a sleeveless top? I think some of us on the more-conservative side would like to hold the line on further advancement of the to-hell-with-everybody-else-I’m-going-to-be-comfortable approach. We read the “to thine own self be true” line as advocating a selfish, self-centered approach; whereas you guys apparently read it as inspiration for individuality.</p>
Me. Honestly. I’m not trying to be holier-than-thou; this kind of thing just doesn’t bother me. </p>
<p>
But of course it’s only from your point of view that this is an accurate characterization. Maybe wearing shorts on a college tour would say “to hell with everybody else” if you did it. It doesn’t say that when I do it, because I don’t see wearing shorts to walk around a college campus as a trangressive, defiant gesture of extreme casualness. You’re certainly free to deplore the fact that people feel the way I do about it; but please don’t confuse the issue by imagining that I feel things I don’t.</p>
<p>
We really don’t see it as anything that dramatic. We see it as the way everybody should act unless they have a pressing reason to act otherwise. </p>
<p>I mean, are you serious? You’re saying that people should adhere to conservative standards of dress in ordinary, mundane social contexts out of selflessness? I must admit you lose me there.</p>
<p>“You’re saying that people should adhere to conservative standards of dress in ordinary, mundane social contexts out of selflessness?”</p>
<p>This discussion reminds me of the different mindsets of pet owners vs. non pet owners. A lot of pet owners don’t see the big deal about a dog soiling someone’s lawn, someone holding a cat and then making the hamburger patties without washing hands, or having a dog eat something off a table. To many pet owners, these types of things are just normal parts of life, and they think the others are prissy for caring about them. I think it’s not asking too much that the pet owners be a bit aware that not everybody is a pet person, and therefore might have different standards of sanitation.</p>
<p>Likewise, I wouldn’t mind it if people thought twice about wearing a hairy-armpit-showing tank top to a nice restaurant, or thought twice about whether their roadmap legs are ready for public consumption. How about this, Nightchef?..Next time you and the family are going to dig into a nice meal at home, you have the grossest guy in your neighborhood stand next to the dinner table wearing just a jock strap.</p>
So according to this highly scientific study and large sample size , those touring who think shorts are out of line for this college tour would have likely been 0%.</p>
<p>I’m guessing though that for those of you who are still actively doing college tours this summer who’ve been following this thread, you’ll be on a hightened awareness of what other people are wearing on the tour - just as 3togo was. That could be enlightening, or funny, or depressing, depending on one’s perception. I suspect that for most of us we simply don’t really notice what most of the others are wearing unless it’s quite outside of the norm. For example, if I was to tour UCLA or UCSD I wouldn’t really even notice people wearing shorts/t-shirt or khakis/polo shirt, but I’d notice someone walking around in a suit but just because I notice it and it’s unusual in that situation I think it’s no issue that they happen to be wearing a suit. Maybe because of where they’re from they think that’s appropriate (and are maybe looking down on those wearing khakis), or maybe they have a business appointment afterwards, or maybe they truly enjoy wearing a suit.</p>
<p>Schmaltz, I give up. I’m sorry you are so easily grossed out by the bodies of your fellow humans, but I think your point of view is quite extreme and I don’t think people should feel bound to defer to it, any more than people should walk around wearing surgical masks on their faces out of consideration for the germophobes among them.</p>
I see - so it must have been a bunch of sartorially impaired lower class types touring that college - obviously not people quite up to your standards.</p>
<p>I consider UCLA/UCB/UCSD as somewhat decent colleges, certainly colleges that are very selective, and shorts wearing tourers are common there. I imagine you draw negative conclusions about them as well.</p>
, those touring who think shorts are out of line for this college tour would have likely been 0%.</p>