What SHOULD be required of high school students?

Parent Cafe
41

“The funny thing is, the kids who really need those classes… are going to skip them. I get implementing common sense education, but the kids who are smart/resourceful enough to figure things out will waste their time/lose a spot for a different class in their schedule, and the kids who aren’t will skip.”

I don’t think this is necessarily true. And even if a lot of kids would skip, I think the option to take the class should still be there. Also, as a kid who is pretty smart and resourceful myself, I know having a personal finance unit in another class actually helped me a lot.
While I don’t think personal finance, home ec, shop, and other “common sense” classes should be required, I do think they should at least be optional for students to take.

42

Re: #37

That adds up to 24 course-years, which would be a full schedule with no electives (other than choice of which foreign language) in high schools with 6 course schedules. It would mean only 4 course-years of electives in high schools with 7 course schedules.

The specified math also assumes accelerated sequencing compared to the typical sequencing in the US.

For comparison, when I went to high school, the actual high school graduation requirements were something like:

  • 4 years of English composition and literature were required, but the literature component emphasized English (UK) only in one of the years. The other years in the usual sequence had different emphases like American literature, or other literature translated to English.
  • 1 year of US history, plus 1 year of other history or social studies was required.
  • Civics was required, but was only a semester course.
  • Economics, CS, and logic were not required (logic was not offered, unless you count proofs in geometry as such).
  • An art or music course was required, but students could choose practice/performance or history.
  • Foreign language was not required.
  • Science and math requirements allowed for a significantly lower level of achievement.
  • 2 (or maybe 3) years of PE were required. Swimming was required as one of the PE activity choices (each activity was 1/2 semester long) if one did not pass a swimming test given in 9th grade.
  • A semester of health was required.
43

@1Wife1Kid ah, I can understand that! Personally I would advocate more for students being able to take either basic art OR art history as well as a music class OR music theory, that way students who are more musically or artistically inclined can choose which aspect of art or music they want to focus on, rather than having to spend time outside of school on those things. (Hopefully that made sense!)

44

In my experience, there are multitudes of otherwise well-educated parents who are utterly ignorant in all these areas and spend loads of money paying other people/companies to do it all for them. These parents are not modeling wise behavior for their kids who will probably not have a lot of extra money to waste on these services, at least as new graduates. People who don’t have to depend on take-out, seamstresses, and handymen for hire, end up way ahead financially; giving students an opportunity to learn practical skills outside the home can make a huge difference if the kids are smart enough to take advantage of those courses.

45

toowonderful, Single mom here. I taught all my kids to read and I taught them basic math. There are high school subjects I could teach, but not home repair. Home ec is much more than cooking; there’s also a fair amount of nutrition and home organization taught in there.

46

I took cooking, sewing, and shop in middle school. I can’t recall the exact requirements for such classes, but there were some. However, I also don’t recall there being any boys in sewing, so that class may have been required of the girls while the boys did something else more gender-acceptable to them.

No reason to waste high school courses on the basics of this stuff.

I didn’t learn anything in 7th grade cooking that I didn’t already know, but I was expected to cook dinner at home so I suppose other students might have learned something.

47

I took up cooking when I was in middle school.It was very useful for me later on.

48

I also took cooking and sewing in junior high and didn’t learn much since I’d already both cooked and sewed at home for years, but the industrial arts/shop classes would have been extremely beneficial - I’ve had to teach myself how to use all my household tools and do simple repairs. But back in those days, girls took home ec and boys took shop, it’s just how it was…

My son was required to take a semester of each when he was in junior high, which I think makes a lot more sense since you avoid the gender segregation that happens when the students have to choose. Also parents also often have a tendency to teach certain skills to children of different genders, girls aren’t always taught to use power drills at home and boys aren’t always taught to use sewing machines. I tried my best to teach my son all that I was able, but I don’t mind taking a semester of junior high to reinforce some of those skills.

49

Our district also has only 6 class periods per day. No block scheduling, no opportunity to double up.

50

@ucbalumnus -

Yes, my ideal high school course load will not have room for any electives. It will be standardized across the country and all schools will have to teach and grade to the same standard and all students will take the same courses. Then we will have a real basis for comparison of what a high school degree really means in producing citizens that are ready to be a part of modern American society. Schools can go deeper than the core requirement of course, and all courses can have a regular/honors/AP path to accommodate students of different aptitude and dedication levels.

Since my recommended load is quite broad, I do not think students will miss out on much electives. I made room by eliminating PE and arts, as well as all life skills courses. Students who are good in sports and arts will any way find room for that outside of school. Life skills should be taught at home. Parents need to be a partner in the education of their kids.

Of course that is my ideal, since that’s the way the original question is framed. I fully understand that it is not feasible with the varying levels of resources and opportunities available to different students based on their individual socio-economic situations.

51

Why should the sole purpose of high school be to compare students on some basis? Shouldn’t it also be about giving students an education that will develop fundamental skills while also interesting them and helping them to pursue their own goals?

With the possible exception of operating some power tools, there’s no reason why home ec/basic shop cannot be taught in middle school. My kids’ middle school has mostly eliminated these classes to make more time to pursue the almighty standardized test scores.

52

@1Wife1Kid - I am afraid the system you are describing would be almost impossible to create. But even if it were - within the public education system- what comes next? Are all colleges going to follow suit? If HS have to do it, why not colleges? There could be true tiers so you would “know” what “level” school you went to. All companies pay the same salary for the same job? Why do all high school experiences need to be the same? There are opportunities for national comparison - AP/IB tests, as well as PSAT, SAT, ACT etc. I think what you describe would be BAD for education- it’s already been tried (no child left behind, common core etc) and it doesn’t seem to work out

53

@PNWedwonk that’s really weird that you’re only allowed to have 6 classes a year in Seattle. I live in Spokane, and although most kids take 6, you can take up to 9 (with 0 hr, 7th hr, online classes, etc.) I assumed the state payed for all of that. Just curious, what do running start students do? Are they only allowed to take 2 (free) 5 credit classes a quarter for 6 a year total? Also, the east side of the state, at least where I live in Spokane is not that conservative.

54

@snowfairy137, Spokane’s tax levy income must go farther than Seattle’s if they can afford to offer nine classes. We have friends in Walla Walla and I know their HS is able to offer seven periods. For people from normal parts of the country: it isn’t really that some areas are richer so can tax themselves more. In WA there are restrictions on how much areas are allowed to tax themselves for education. Basic education is supposed to be funded by the state (the WA constitution says it is the state’s “Paramount Duty.” ) The view is that rich areas shouldn’t be able to buy more than poor areas. In practice that means that urban areas, which tend to have students who are more expensive to educate, higher costs of living for teachers and more run down infrastructure are at a disadvantage compared to suburban areas. The most rural areas vary widely (there are some mitigating pots of money for the most rural and some urban areas.)

My understanding of Running Start is that the community college classes take the place of a HS class, so if a student takes CC English through Running Start, they can’t get credit for HS English in the same grading period. (Obviously, they could pay to take as many extra classes as they want.) East side (including East side of Lake Washington!) legislators in general are much more conservative than Seattle area ones. I don’t know how the Spokane reps, in particular, vote.

55

@PNWedwonk very interesting. I was always told that the state pays for me to take between 6 and 9 classes per year, and I could take those classes at school or EWU or community college or online or wherever. I didn’t realize it was so complex. I think that’s kind of unfair.

56

@1Wife1Kid Your ideal curriculum would not have suited me at all. Lack of studio art classes would have left me unprepared for portfolio review entering my BFA program. I wouldn’t have learned nearly as much working on my own with no instruction or critique. I took 4.5 years of art in HS (all that was offered) and I wish I could have taken more.

Your math sequence presupposes that all middle school kids complete Algebra 1-- not a bad goal, but not the norm around here. It’s considered an accelerated track and only offered to kids with a high score on the CogAT in K-5.

57

What may be desirable for certain “life skills” topics like personal finance would be to have required courses, but allow completion of the requirement by exam so that those with that knowledge already need not take the course and would get space for another elective.

This would be analogous to the swimming requirement that my high school had. You either had to pass a swimming test, or you had to take swimming as your PE for half of a semester.

Regarding health and PE, some topics in health (exercise, fitness, nutrition, injury prevention) should be coordinated with PE.

Regarding art and music, agree with others that students should be able to choose between history/theory and practice/performance.

58

I have worked very closely with underprivileged children’s education. I am taking their needs in consideration too. I feel that students should get a lot of flexibility to pursue what they want and are good at rather than giving them same courses.

Our school and many other school districts have 6 periods which I have assumed my base time; if any SD has more time, the students can take on more electives or advanced courses in the area of interest.

-English :4 years = 3 for English+1 with options of either essays/college apps etc(as suggested above -many parents are not equipped/interested enough while kids want to go to the colleges) or regular/AP etc

-Math :2 years = More focus on math in daily life for the non-STEM students. STEM/interested students can choose the path of advancement right from the beginning and advance as they wish for the 4 years.

-Science 2 years = More focus on science in daily life for the non-STEM students. STEM/interested students can choose the path of advancement right from the beginning and advance as they wish for the 4 years.

-Social Science :2 years = US and World history and civics. Interested students can choose the path of advancement right from the beginning and advance as they wish

-Personal finance, economics and law :1 year = Tax, investments, ROIs, loans and law for various daily life situation and how to handle/react to de-escalate the situation.

-Computer education :1 year = More focus on computers in daily life. Interested students can choose the path of advancement right from the beginning and advance as they wish

-Art/Music :1 year = Interested students can choose the path of advancement right from the beginning and advance as they wish

-FL :1 year = Interested students can choose the path of advancement right from the beginning and advance as they wish.

-PE :2 years = They can take personal training/physiotherapy/occupational therapy/sports medicine courses too. Interested students can choose the path of advancement right from the beginning and advance as they wish.

-Optional Vocational course 1-2 years = If a student wants/has to quit school after 12th grade, (s)he should be able to find work and live a meaningful and contributing life. Many students and their parents don’t know enough about available options.

Students come with their own set of strengths and weaknesses; likes and dislikes. Let them find and play on their strengths.

Edited - Forgot Health :1 semester

59

@collegandi- I don’t know about where you live- but you can’t get into state colleges where I live (to say nothing of OOS or competitive schools) with some of the things you list above - eg: 2 years of math/science/social studies, 1 year of FL. What are you thinking is the end game here - vocational training? If so, not an issue- but I don’t think your curiculum would leave a student college ready

60

I am in California, @toowonderful. I am very much aware of the requirements to get in the tippy top or even state schools. In the very beginning of my message and in the end I have mentioned


[QUOTE=""]
I feel that students should get a lot of flexibility to pursue what they want and are good at rather than giving them same courses.

[/QUOTE]

And


[QUOTE=""]
Students come with their own set of strengths and weaknesses; likes and dislikes. Let them find and play on their strengths.

[/QUOTE]

And


[QUOTE=""]
-Optional Vocational course 1-2 years = If a student wants/has to quit school after 12th grade, (s)he should be able to find work and live a meaningful and contributing life. Many students and their parents don't know enough about available options.

[/QUOTE]

Please note that the vocational courses are proposed to be OPTIONAL (for some students, it would help a lot)

I have proposed flexibility with a minimum program and very advanced track for the advanced students in a particular field. Not all students can be Mathy and Artsy and Polyglot etc.

A student can take a deep dive in 1 or 2 fields only if we relieve him/her of burdening with extras outside his/her strengths. But to live life, one needs to have a minimum set of knowledge which I have proposed. Advancement is upto the student.

Many Asian countries let their students take up advanced courses in the area of interest after 10th grade relieving them of extra requirements in the non relevant courses. e.g. STEM students don’t study Social Sciences, foriegn language etc if they don’t want to. The Arts and Languages and Law students don’t have to take Pre Calculus or Physics. They specialize in the area of interest.

The US students are competing against them and its not a level playing field.

The end game is : to give talented students a chance to advance and achieve in the areas of interest rather than spreading them thin AND giving underprivileged children a skillset to be able to contribute to the society in the meaningful way.

Edited : most of the proposed courses are minimum requirement and have a clause :


[QUOTE=""]
"Interested students can choose the path of advancement right from the beginning and advance as they wish"

[/QUOTE]