Also, at some states, it’s closer to go to a neighboring state’s state schools, than one’s flagship, and one can even so commute but have to live to go to own Big State U.
My one brother lives in VA and his kids did not get into the wonderful VA state schools that they most wanted so ended up at some OOS rah-rah type universities. They wanted to be in big time sports band, which they succeeded in doing, but they could not get into the top VA state schools as B students with modest test scores. So if you ask him, his state would not rate high in providing the options for his kids.
I agree with the assessment of CA with VA as a second. Students in those states have a variety of great campuses o choose from, not just one good state flagship with a bunch of regional campuses. NY and FL (to a certain extent) also have great systems with several good choices. MI, PA, IL, NJ, MD, IN, WI, MA, and WA have 1-2 excellent flagship universities. They do have other good public options, but they just aren’t as well-known or as well-respected as some of the satellite options in other states. I would put GA and TX in between those two categories - more than 2 good flagships, but some of their flagships are regional (Georgia Tech is great everywhere but Georgia Southern is better known in the South; same could be said of Texas Tech or Texas A&M, other than for engineering). MO, MS, and AZ are on the up-and-coming list - Arizona and Arizona State are both excellent universities, and Missouri and Ole Miss are great places too.
"Out of bias, I argue that California has the best public higher education system "
Don’t you have to define “best”? “Best” could be …
Broadest -- most # seats / opportunities per capita (either the state population, or the state population between ages 18 - 22)
Most affordable - is affordable to the greatest % of that state's residents (however one defines affordable, maybe it's some multiple to the average HH income in that state)
Best return for the money in terms of what the taxpayers of that state have to cough up
Serves THAT state's students most comprehensively - offers the widest variety of majors, etc.
Serves the widest diversity within the student (has programs for below average students, average students, honors students)
Serves the "gifted" / honors students of that state the best
Is a destination for OTHER states' students (perhaps measured by % OOS)
Is well regarded in that state
Is well regarded OUTSIDE that state
Has best job prospects IN that state
Has best job prospects OUTSIDE that state
I have to be honest, it’s hard for me to anoint the UC’s as being “best” when frankly they are all just pretty unknown outside California (with the exception of Berkeley and UCLA). Michigan, OTOH, seems to have such a broad national footprint it’s amazing. But, of course, other people will have different criteria. But I think you can’t really answer “best” til you define your terms.
What about NC? UNC-CH and NCSU (esp. for Engg) are 2 good univs. I am from PA and can tell you emphatically that PA publics do nothing to retain its best and brightest. My D2 received a lot more academic and financial offers from other state schools for ChemE than PA ones. She ended up at GTech.
“Arizona and Arizona State are both excellent universities, and Missouri and Ole Miss are great places too.”
Arizona State pretty much lets in anybody with a pulse, no? Doesn’t it have something like an 85% acceptance rate, or am I mistaken?
But again - this gets back to “best.” If “best” = has the smartest students, then no, ASU can’t hold a candle to say, Michigan. But if “best” = “provides a college opportunity for students all up and down the smart scale,” then ASU fits that criterion.
This is true, however the school has put a ton of energy and money into the Barrett Honors College, which is really top-notch. So for smart kids, ASU is a great choice, especially if OOS privates are not affordable. I would not consider it for my son if Barrett was not an option however.
For me personally, in evaluating a state university, the extent to which it’s widely known (for academics, not just for sports) and well-regarded outside its home territory is important for me.
But in coming up with the state with the best public university/college system, other issues come to mind too. Like the number of residents served. The options for the state residents. Not just one state university but the state system as a whole.
Right, that’s what I said in an earlier post on this thread - see post #22 upthread where I proposed a couple of different definitions as starters. You have to define your criteria for “best” before you can have an argument as to which state has the “best.”
27 was an articulation of my own personal principles, not the determining definition :-)
“Aside from Ohio State University, the several very fine public universities in Ohio constitute a great system of higher education.”
14 Public universities, not including branch campuses. They each have unique strengths and are on the whole affordable. They also are typically within reach of the major metro areas in Ohio so most students can commute if they need to. With the exception of tOSU and possibly Miami of Ohio none are highly ranked schools, however, I think for many students that works for them rather than against them. I think Ohio could do a better job of subsidizing a state education and offering better scholarships to keep top students in state, but we’re not as expensive as PA or IL.