What the hell is wrong with this school?

<p>Or is it something wrong with me? I guess I am looking for advice and personal experience.</p>

<p>I was accepted as a transfer EA, and dealing with fin aid has been terrible. My dad is a retired farmer, my mom a retired school teacher, but it looks like we had a lot of income last year because my dad had an auction to get rid of his farming equipment. The problem is, that money went to pay off old loans on the farm, and we made almost nothing off the auction. We told fin aid about this, and they said to explain it in a letter, which we did, and it looks like they still won't give us anything. Seriously, my parents barely get anything a year in their retirement, this is ridiculous!</p>

<p>I desparetly want to go to Chicago for school, as I couldn't stand my current school (Creighton) where the only thing people knew how to do is party. But I really don't know about taking out 100K in loans! I plan on getting a PhD in biology and going on from there (so grad school should be paid for). Do you guys take out a lot of money in loans or know those who do? Or could you please tell me how to deal with these fin aid people or give me some kind of adivce? Thanks so much!</p>

<p>By the way, I don't mean to be rude, but I would appreciate it if anyone with "mom" or "dad" in their name would pass this topic by without posting. I know what you guys think, and I'm not looking to live a wealthy life, I just want to be happy and make the most of myself. And please don't tell me to look for another school......Creighton is a Jesuit school and fairly strong academically, but they didn't satisfy me.</p>

<p>
[quote]
By the way, I don't mean to be rude, but I would appreciate it if anyone with "mom" or "dad" in their name would pass this topic by without posting. I know what you guys think

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, I hate those damn parents who do nothing but help everyone. </p>

<p>What did they say when you called?</p>

<p>^ fairly said. I guess I'm pretty bitter about some posts I remember. There was one who kept advising kids not to take out more than 50K if they could help it, but later she was talking about the great profs at UChicago and how it makes it easier for her to send out the check at the start of every quater. It's a little frustrating that my parents are unable to send out that check too, but I expected Chicago to be a little more helpful than they were.</p>

<p>When we called they simply said "We don't take special circumstances into account."</p>

<p>Am I the only one who can't afford this school? Come on, I know you guys are out there!!</p>

<p>I've found Chicago's financial aid office to be rather frigid. They simply told my father that the aid they offered was accurate for how much money we made. They then went onto say that financial aid is recalculated every year. That's definitly a tough decision to make. Assuming they do indeed calculate aid each year, I have to imagine that next year you will not have to pay nearly as much. 100,000 is a lot of debt to incur, but I think I would do it if I were in your situation.</p>

<p>I believe that to have a debt of $100, 000.00 for an undergrad education is outrageous and unnecessary. By the time you are done with your PhD, you will likely have incurred another $100,000.00 plus in debt! A PhD ( working in a lab or as a professor, is not going to get you more than $ 80,000 per year on the average.)</p>

<p>Your graduate education is what's going to have a greater impact on your career, not your undergrad. Save your money for grad school and stay at Creighton!</p>

<p>^ I find that hard to believe. Perhaps I'm just used to living frugally, but everyone I know (counselors, profs, people who have done it) tell me that you should break even for a PhD and not need any more in loans. That kind of money you are speaking of would be applicable to a law school student (or half or so of a med school student's debt).</p>

<p>I have to say I'm dissapointed. Aren't there more people in my position at Chicago? Are you all getting great deals or your parents are helping or what??</p>

<p>I think that going into $100,000 will put you in a very poor position graduating college, and I think that you should look into alternative ways to pay and alternative schools. Think about taking a year off, living at home, and working full time. You can apply for other schools that offer merit-based aid or better need-based aid for your situation or use your income to cut down on the amount of debt (though it would still be too much debt for me to support the decision).</p>

<p>Maybe taking the financial aid euphemism a little bit seriously for a moment, one can say that everybody is in a different financial situation and everybody deals with it differently. My parents don't talk to me about finances; all I know is that my college education is being paid for, and I'm grateful to them that I don't have to worry about it. At the same time, though, students don't talk to each other about their financial situations.</p>

<p>I'm sure you're aware of the opportunities to milk some of your money back through work/study, etc.</p>

<p>And I'm sure you've spent a lot of time here:
<a href="http://collegeaid.uchicago.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://collegeaid.uchicago.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Nightshade, I'm not going to honor your request for parents to butt out, because I think I may be able to help a little.</p>

<p>In telling your story here, there are a few things that jump out as potential issues:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>How are you paying for Creighton? Why is there such a huge difference in cost between the two schools?</p></li>
<li><p>Do your parents still own a farm? That's a pretty common problem situation in the financial aid world -- owning high-value assets that do not produce a lot of cash income. There's not a lot of comfort I can give you about that -- people complain bitterly about it all the time. Some schools handle it more generously than others, but you probably won't get a lot of relief if Chicago is following its regular policies.</p></li>
<li><p>Another issue with farmers and small businesses is that there is often a lot of personal consumption folded in with the business expenses -- things like gas, vehicles, home office deductions. (The IRS is pretty suspicious of that, too.) Some colleges may inflate farm income by some factor to account for that, and so may think that your parents earned more than they did in the past. That's something you may be able to address.</p></li>
<li><p>This is a tough one, I know: Your story about the equipment auction doesn't completely add up. It's not uncommon to sell equipment to pay off bank loans, and to have "phantom income" (income without cash proceeds in excess of the loans) on a tax return as a result. But that situation would arise because the equipment had been depreciated for tax purposes in prior years, which means prior years' income was reduced by non-cash losses pretty much equal to the income that got recognized last year. In other words, your father really had that income, it was just spread out over a number of years, not bunched into one year. Do you know what your profile would look like if you spread that income back over the previous three or four years?</p></li>
<li><p>If the financial aid office really takes a year-by-year look, and your parents have very little current income, then your financial aid ought to be adjusted for 2008-2009. You should try to find out what's likely to happen then based on what you know now. It may not make enough of a difference to make Chicago affordable, but you shouldn't assume that you will have to borrow $100,000 if it's really $70,000 instead.</p></li>
<li><p>You shouldn't ever have to borrow $50,000/year really -- most people can make money with summer and term-time jobs. (I'm assuming you are a sophomore now.)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Unfortunately, people make tough decisions that they can't afford a particular college all the time. If you poke around on the parents' forum, you will see that time and time again. It's agonizing and sad and not fair, but people have to deal with it a lot, and they do. You may have to figure out how to satisfy your academic needs for the next few years someplace you can afford.</p>

<p>Awesome post.</p>

<h2>Your graduate education is what's going to have a greater impact on your career, not your undergrad. Save your money for grad school and stay at Creighton!</h2>

<p>What do you mean? You get paid about $20,000 a year to go to science grad school. You don't need to "save up for it."</p>

<p>In spite of knowing what we might think, it might be helpful to know that in the past 30 years or so, almost know one has asked where I received my undergraduate degree (it was not U of C). If graduate school is in one's future, that is what most will be interested in.</p>

<p>I find that hard to believe iDad. Almost everyone who has been to both undergrad and professional/grad school identify with their undergrad school as being their alma mater. When one asks where you went to school, they mean undergrad. All adults I have spoken to all tell me where they went to undergrad--only the people who went to Harvard Business or Law school make it a point to tell me they went there.</p>

<p>I have many friends who have had similar experiences. When introduced at speaking engagements few Ph.D's find that their undergraduate school is mentioned.</p>

<p>idad is right. But the OP wasn't talking about future prestige. The OP wants a better educational experience now, something I can sympathize with. Also, it's not out of the question that he would have more opportunity to do impressive things in biology as an undergraduate at Chicago, and therefore improve his chances at the graduate program of his choice. I'm sure Creighton wouldn't disqualify him for anything, but I'm also sure that more kids go into more top programs from Chicago, at least on a percentage basis.</p>

<p>That's the kind of attitude I'm avoiding. People at my current school don't care to learn and are just there to get their A's so they can get into med school where the "real" learning starts. Even the profs don't want to be in some of the core classes. I'm ready to learn now, and I don't give a darn about who asks me where I went later in life. </p>

<p>I'm in this so that I can find a school that will challenge me and shape my mind now. Yes, at my current school I can study hard and make the most of it, but you can only learn so much from a book.</p>

<p>It's going to be my grad school that will land me a job, but it will be my undergrad that shapes my mind (and it also counts for getting into grad school I suppose). I'm sorry you guys don't see it the same way. I'll find a way to deal with this. Just forget I asked, really.</p>

<p>Well Smirkus, from what I have seen with my parents and their friends, grad school is what people/employers end up asking about. Some people may be very identifiedl with their undergraduate alma mater (frats, sports, good times, independence, etc ) but just like idad said: if there is graduate school in your career..that's the one that counts..!
Just imagine someone ending their studies with an undergraduate college degree ( Bachelor, etc ). Is anyone really interested in which great and prestigious high school that person went to? The answer is no. The same thing roughly applies to grad school ( especially med school and law )</p>

<p>wow, i really hope you make it to chicago, you seem to have all the right reasons. good luck with everything.</p>

<p>I didn't mean it in the official sense at all. If my rebuttal to iDad was for his usage in the official sense, then yes, I'm wrong, sorry for arguing. </p>

<p>But, I'll still stick to unofficially--when you aren't being interviewed or being introduced, or if you don't have a phD (but any other degree is ok) you do identify with your undergrad school. </p>

<p>Proof is that (it's been mentioned on this forum before too) people donate money to their undergrad institutions much more than their grad schools.</p>

<p>In grad/professional school, you work harder (understandably) and therefore have much less time to connect personally to the institution. At that time/age you are more concerned with the real world then your school.</p>

<p>Unless you have a phD, all adults I have spoken with, when college comes up never mention their graduate school without mentioning undergrad, and mostly only talk about their undergrad experience. It is where I think many adults identify with as their true college experience. Though I'm sure when pure degree/stat talk comes up, they will not bother mentioning their undergrad unless it is the name brand school of Harvard (maybe YPS too).</p>

<p>Searchingon: I don't think the highschool argument is so applicable, because college is wayyy more competitive than high school is, and no one has ever cared about the elite highschools, because they have way less to do with intellect and talent and way more to do with local politics and how much money your parents want to spend on your education. There are some exceptions to this rule, like maybe Stuyvesant in Manhattan (Which I would never ever want to go to btw).</p>

<p>In academic settings, one's colleagues are much more likely to be thinking of the <em>department</em> at a particular University, rather than the university as a whole.</p>