What to do now, after all the rejections?

College Majors Dance Major
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<p>I’m looking for some advice from CC parents who are knowledgeable about dance programs, since this is way out of my area of expertise.</p>

<p>My friend’s daughter applied to 8 schools as a dance major and was accepted to all 8 on the academic side (with merit scholarships at some) – but rejected for all 8 dance programs. She is absolutely crushed, as jazz/modern dance has always been her dream.
Perhaps the schools she applied to were too selective? The ones I can remember are Fordham/Alvin Ailey (her first choice), NYU, Manhattan Marymount, Dominican University/LINES Ballet, and University of Arizona (in-state). But her two current dance instructors – one at her high school and one at a private dance studio – were shocked that she did not get into any of the programs. She had successfully auditioned for and attended programs at both Alvin Ailey and LINES for the past two summers, so she is obviously not without some talent.</p>

<p>So what are her best options now?
-- Should she enroll at one of these schools as a non-dance major and try auditioning next year to get into the dance program? And would being a student there already give her any sort of advantage?
-- Are there any schools with decent dance programs that are still accepting applications for the fall?
-- Should she take a gap year and then try again next year, applying to some dance programs that are less competitive? And do you have some suggestions for what schools she might add to her list?
-- Or should she take this as a sign that she is just not talented enough – or perhaps is just not the correct “type” (she’s only 4’10”) -- to make it as a professional dancer, and just move on to study something else (after the pain dies down)?</p>

<p>I’d appreciate any insight you can provide, based on your experiences.</p>

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<p>Wow, that's a tough situation. So sorry to hear about her disappointment. You mention that jazz/modern dance has always been her dream - I presume you mean as a performer, or is she also open to a career in teaching or choreography?
[quote]
Perhaps the schools she applied to were too selective? The ones I can remember are Fordham/Alvin Ailey (her first choice), NYU, Manhattan Marymount, Dominican University/LINES Ballet, and University of Arizona(in-state).

[/quote]
These are very selective schools. Dominican/LINES is ballet-based; Fordham/Ailey has a strong ballet element. She obviously had some familiarity with them, having done summer intensives there, and must have thought they were good fits. But 4'10" is quite short for a professional dancer, and ballet programs particularly are likely to cut dancers for physical reasons alone. </p>

<p>I'm a bit confused to hear that she was accepted academically at NYU, but rejected by the dance department; does that mean she was admitted to a school other than Tisch? It was my understanding that NYU applicants can apply to only one program, and must be accepted both academically and artistically to be admitted. I didn't realize applicants received separate notifications at NYU.</p>

<p>Arizona seems as if it would have been a great choice, since its mission is to integrate training in ballet, modern, and jazz. And she's in-state, which would have made it affordable. Is it possible that one of her dance teachers could call the dance department at Arizona and ask about her audition results? I don't mean to make an appeal or question the decision, but to find out what was lacking, if her height was a factor, or if they simply had so many applicants this year that she was squeezed out? This might help her and her teachers decide whether it's worthwhile to keep trying for a professional career.</p>

<p>I know that the Ailey School offers a one-year independent study program, and that some Fordham students pursue it. I also think there's a three-year certificate program at Ailey that is more or less full-time and might preclude academic study.</p>

<p>This was a tough year for admissions in every field - and performing arts has always been a tough admit at selective programs. I can understand why she's questioning herself, but she might just have been unlucky; she might have been the next name on the list where the "accept" line was drawn at all 8 schools. Or she may not have thought enough about finding a safety, and, like the kids who apply to all 8 Ivies because they think it increases their chances, just found herself on the wrong side of the odds.</p>

<p>She's obviously talented academically, too. If she can't give up the idea of a professional career, maybe a gap year, during which she assembles a more realistic list, saves money for school, and does a lot of dance training and performing, is the way to go.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your thoughtful response. Yes, she is primarily interested in performing, although teaching is a potential second career when she is done dancing.</p>

<p>I don't know any of the specifics about NYU; you could be right about the single admission there. Her mother had just lumped it in with all of the other schools when she was talking to me, but it may have been a different case.</p>

<p>I'll pass on your suggestion about having one of her teachers try to find out what happened at UA; that could yield some valuable information. I'll also let her know about the other programs available at Ailey. </p>

<p>I personally think she might have just aimed too high and not applied to a broad enough range of schools. As I said in my first post, I don't really know anything about dance programs, but I have seen the "Ivy syndrome" that you mentioned happen all too often with other top students. A gap year would give her a chance to regroup and plan more strategically for next year's application cycle, when I hope she would have a more positive outcome.</p>

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<p>There's the Columbia school in Chicago- no audition required. Or Umass Amherst (5 college dance program) It is getting quite late though but worth looking into. Her initial list seemed to only include the most selective schools which hasn't left her with a good option.
The schools she applied to are very selective and even if she wants to go into jazz and modern, reputable dance programs still require a strong ballet training. Perhaps she doesn't have this? How is her technique training? Admittance in the year round programs are tougher than admittance into the summer programs.</p>

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<p>I certainly am not qualified to judge her ballet performance/technique, but I do know that she has been taking ballet classes (and continues to take them) since elementary school. She just prefers jazz and modern dance.</p>

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<p>The question is not if but where she's been taking ballet classes. Though if she got into reputable summer programs that required some ballet in the audition, then her training is probably not poor. Also, it's possible that her height could be a factor. She may want to try Columbia College (Chicago) which does not require an audition, consider other majors but go somewhere where she can still dance as a minor or at the very least, for recreation.</p>

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<p>Someone posted a message in the U of A thread that 450 students auditioned this year and only 25-30 were accepted. This is a highly competitive program and students from all over the country audition. At one time there was an option to audition to be acccepted as a dance minor but not sure if that is still a possibility. Has she checked out the dance department at ASU?
eta: The students that I know that are accepted into this progam have a very strong background in ballet.</p>

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<p>When my daughter did not get into her #1 choice for dance, she considered a variety of options. First, I believe it is possible (although difficult) to combine a Fordham non-dance degree with the Ailey 3 year certificate program. The issue is energy, $, and coordinating class schedules. Going for the independent study might be another consideration. She could check the Ailey audition schedule to see what's still available.
Two other options that have very strong ballet instruction in a more general dance curriculum include Goucher and University of South Florida. It might be worth a call to see if those schools are still accepting applications. I believe that the instruction is strong enough in either school to be a viable place to get plenty of high quality dance experience even if she ultimately decides to transfer.<br>
And of course there's the gap year.
It's such a tough decision, especially in a field where youth remains so important.
Good luck. Let us know what she decides.</p>

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<p>If the student really is into modern dance, then she may wish to consider Mason Gross School at Rutgers. Its sole focus is on modern dance, and the education is first rate (they will be doing a Mark Morris piece at the spring dance concert). It is equidistant from New York and Philadelphia and near Princeton, and students take advantage of its proximity. Plus, I know that one of the better dancers in MGSA's dance company is less than 5 feet tall.</p>

<p>For what its worth, my daughter auditioned at Ailey/Fordham on January 16 and Marymount Manhattan on January 17. Both days the same quite short girl attended. My daughter specifically said that she thought this girl was among the better dancers at these auditions (and she wouldn't say so if she did not believe it).</p>

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<p>Most of the programs she applied to are looking for students who have a real chance at a professional career. At 4'10" it will be extremely difficult in this very competitive field.</p>

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<p>Hi. it seems that the only schools she applied to were the toughest to get into. I will tell you that she probably did not get into NYU,Fordham and Arizona because of her height. Another thing to remember is that most decent dancers get into summer intensives. I think it gives them a false sense of how good they are. Most kids who go to summer intensives do not make the collegiate program with which they go to. Sounds harsh. but those are the realities. This in no means says that she is a bad dancer!!! Those programs are so selective that just physical appearance can cut you. That does not mean she wont make it some where. She should look into Point Park in Pittsburgh and University of the arts in Philly. They are great programs but are not going to cut you just because of your body!!! They like all different types of dancers and all differents bodies. They want you because you can dance. Hope this helps. Also have her look at Oklahoma city University.</p>

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<p>I second the previous post. My daughter is a strong, muscular dancer with a curvy body. She was accepted at Point Park (for ballet!) and UArts. She was rejected at Marymount Manhattan which, for the life of me, could only have been for her body type. The MM audition, by the way, was the absolute worst audition experience. 72 dancers in one big room. 72!</p>

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<p>I agree about the Marymount audition. It was an awful audition experience for my daughter. There were about 75-80 dancers and my daughter said it was so crowded at the bar she couldn’t even do her ballet technique correctly because when she bent over her head would hit the behind of the girl in front of her. She came out after the audition and before cuts and said even if I make it I wouldn’t go here. And she got cut. She is going to NCSA this year and was accepted for college and it is a great school so she is happy. I had heard complaints for several years about the audition process at MMU and we found out first hand they were true. </p>

<p>She absolutely loved the audition at Fordham/Ailey because they do an application process to narrow down the people auditioning. There were only 27 people auditioning and they did ballet, modern, solo and an interview. She got wait-listed there and she hopes to get in but even if she doesn’t she really liked the audition process and the style of dance they did. She said the teachers made it very comfortable during the audition for everyone.</p>

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<p>I’d say that this is a blessing in disguise. Getting a BA is much better than a BFA.</p>

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<p>“I know that the Ailey School offers a one-year independent study program, and that some Fordham students pursue it. I also think there’s a three-year certificate program at Ailey that is more or less full-time and might preclude academic study”</p>

<p>My daughter was just accepted to this program…but we don’t understand it too well. It seems that you know a bit about it? You say that a dancer can be a student in Fordham and pursue this program? Also do you or anyone know how many people get admitted to this program? </p>

<p>She applied as a BFA in Fordham but was accepted to this program, instead. We were all set 5 days ago, now this! She has been accepted to Boston Conservatory, Marymount Manhattan and Connecticut College.</p>

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<p>Ailey’s independent study program won’t give your D a degree. But, Boston Conservatory is EXCELLENT for dance, so I urge her to accept there. Today is the deadline!</p>

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<p>Just had to tell you that nothing has changed at MM. was just there and 85 dancers at once! how can they possibly judge fairly with that many in a room. Most disorganized audition yet.</p>

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<p>ouch, worried-mom. I feel for your friend’s d (and your friend!). When people talk about selectivity of these programs, they are correct – there are many, many more qualified dancers than space available (and let’s face it, it’s kind of impossible to have a 500-seat “lecture” class for dance…so they have to remain small). The dancer’s size <em>may</em> have made it more difficult for her, but the current dance economy is also making college admittance more difficult, as dancers who, in previous years might have headed off to second companies or traineeships are choosing to go to college, because those offers either just aren’t there, or the prospect of several years’ unpaid work in hopes of a job is less appealing than a college degree. More older dancers, who did not get picked up by companies following that trainee path are also coming to auditions…but that’s neither here nor there. The question is “what now?”</p>

<p>It’s a hard one to answer. First the dancer needs to contact each school to see if there is the possibility to transfer into a dance major if she chooses to attend undeclared, or with a different major. Usually, for BFAs, the answer is no, as there’s too much structure to the course of study and a dancer can’t join later and catch up. Even if it’s possible, there is rarely an advantage to already being at the school.</p>

<p>Some students do take a gap year and train their little hearts out. But it’s not just a matter of hours – it’s quality. If she considers this option, she needs to find the strongest place to train.</p>

<p>Some students choose to attend college in an area where they can continue training outside of school – major in [insert cool degree here] and go to the strong school in the city where they are in college. Also, some schools offer a dance minor, or performing group or dance team – something to keep skills and interest strong.</p>

<p>If she wants to consider continuing on the audition circuit for college, she could look at Point Park in Pittsburgh. They have rolling admissions, an excellent dance program, and auditions as late as April. They are selective. Others have mentioned Columbia College in Chicago. University of Iowa is still accepting applications. (That’s the rub – at this date, many schools have closed their applications for fall, even if auditions are ongoing.)</p>

<p>Whatever choices she makes about her immediate future, I wonder if it is possible to have a different set of eyes on her than her teachers’…some pre-professional schools or small companies will let a student take a class and sort of see where she is in comparison to her peers. That may help with decisions as well, as could a talk w/the h.s. counselor or others to see if there are other career/study paths that interest her.</p>

<p>Finally, remember that dance is a wonderful thing. But also remember that about 2% of students who start out training in dance will EVER work professionally in dance. Those academic merit awards show she has several skills. </p>

<p>Sorry it’s been a rough audition year…but for all our performing kids, unfortunately, there are many, many more “no” than “yes” answers along the way…</p>

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<p>I am confused why her teachers and dance teachers did not have her apply to schools they knew she would get into. As a safety. Most of the schools, including NYU really dont care about academics. You have meet their minimums but if they want you artistically you basically get in. She must be very smart if they wanted her academically! I would caution anyone going to a school and then trying to audition again. Most schools have a no transfer policy and you are fooling yourself if you think its going to work. Most of those schools will tell you not to do it. Where does she live? I know that Shenandoah University has one more audition in March and if you apply now she may get a space at the audition. It is in Winchester, VA. My dd is a BFA dance major there. Auditions are a crazy thing. You are applying for so little places. You may think you are good enough but it is a numbers game. It stinks!! I went thru it last year and dont wish it on anyone. Good Luck to her!!</p>

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<p>There are still schools that are not as selective that still have the opportunity for an audition to their program. My DD auditioned at Slippery Rock University, Kent State and the University of Akron. She did not want to go too far from home. PPU scared her with their “weight requirements.” They weigh you prior to auditioning and felt that was too much pressure as she is very muscular. Anyway, she was accepted academically and into the dance programs at all 3 schools. She chose SRU because the campus and the dance department fit her personality better. She felt she belonged there, one of those intangibles. Anyway, very impressed by the quality of the instruction she has received so far at Slippery Rock - several teachers are on the faculty for the Dance Intensive at Duke every summer. Their next audition is February 25. She also looked at UNC- Greensboro- their audition is not until March 31st, she felt that was too far away from home. University of Akron will also audition on March 31st. With UA everyone is accepted, the audition is used for placement in levels of jazz, tap, ballet and modern. It is an up and coming program, I was impressed.You can also send in a video audition tape for both UNC and Akron. Good luck, it is such a difficult process. My DD was worried about not auditioning at some schools and going in undeclared and auditioning later. She felt again that was a lot of pressure and what if she didn’t get accepted in the end and had attended for a year. Hope this helps.</p>