<p>Starting with the PSATs, D was convinced she would do poorly on standardized tests and hoped it wouldn't matter. She didn't prepare for the SATI or IIs because she thought it was futile. With each disappointing result, her beliefs were reinforced. On her second attempt at the ACT (still with almost no prep), she got a 31. Things were looking up. But now, the APs come back, 3 on all three tests. She is better than that and now can see that that she should have studied more and could have done better. She can dodge the SAT bullet by reporting the ACT alone. But should she report the AP scores? Are 3s the kiss of death? Also, at least one of her recs would come from one of those AP teachers. Will a 3 negate the rec? She is looking at places like Tufts, BC, Rochester, GW.</p>
<p>She usually does not have to report the AP scores, unless she wants credit for the course (which she probably won't get). I haven't looked up each school, but barring a different policy, I would just ignore the AP scores and send no report to the school. She doesn't even have to fill in the test scores if the app form has a space for them. Some kids never take the AP tests even if they took an AP course. Her hs transcript will show that she took the courses and so that will count toward her taking the "most challenging program" available.</p>
<p>Too late now but one of the advantages of doing some sort of test prep has nothing to do with the subject material but coaching up attitude and mental approach. </p>
<p>The 3's aren't the kiss of death but they aren't helpful either. However, with the AP classes presumably on the transcript, it looks worse imo if you don't report them. The lower SAT scores are probably far more damaging. If financially possible, I'd get your D connected with a very experienced SAT tutor, maybe even one-on-one. Her self-confidence may rise as she sees improvements on the sample tests.
Knowing that you <em>can</em> do something is half the battle. Presumably your D is a rising senior and can take the SAT's again in the Fall.</p>
<p>A good rec is a good rec and it stands on its own. I don't think it will be diminished by the test score.</p>
<p>X-posted.</p>
<p>JMMom may be right about not reporting...to me, seeing the courses on the transcript without the scores would be a yellow flag and I might suspect the scores were worse than 3's.</p>
<p>for tufts:</p>
<p>Testing Requirement:
College of Liberal Arts
(contemplating a major in the Sciences or Mathematics)</p>
<p>OPTION 1: SAT Reasoning Test and two SAT Subject Tests. We recommend the submission of Math Level I or II and a science test.</p>
<p>OR</p>
<p>OPTION 2: ACT with the Writing Section. </p>
<p><a href="http://admissions.tufts.edu/?pid=119%5B/url%5D">http://admissions.tufts.edu/?pid=119</a></p>
<p>Boston College</p>
<p>STANDARDIZED TESTING</p>
<p>Students have two options through which to complete the standardized testing requirement for admission to Boston College. </p>
<p>The first option is for the applicant to complete the SAT I test and two SAT Subject Tests of the student's choice, both administered by the College Entrance Examination Board. For the SAT Subject Tests, students are encouraged to choose two exams in subjects they have enjoyed and highlight their particular academic strengths. Students who have previously taken the old examination must also take the new exam, although we will combine your best individual section scores, regardless of when you sat for the exam. </p>
<p>As a second option, in place of both the SAT I and SAT Subject Tests, applicants may take the American College Test (ACT). Students who choose this option MUST also take the optional ACT Writing examination. </p>
<p>U of Rochester</p>
<p>Our SAT Policy
Students applying to Rochester for 2006, 2007 and 2008 (current 9th through 11th graders) may submit the results from SAT Reasoning exams, the ACT with Writing, or the ACT without Writing. In addition to one of the standardized tests, we welcome and will review optional submissions such as SAT-II, AP or IB exam results, and additional high school writing samples.</p>
<p>When we receive a writing score as part of an SAT or ACT report, we will record it. We will revisit our policy again for students applying for admission in the fall of 2009 when we have gathered information about the writing test's value in helping us make better admission decisions.</p>
<p>GWU</p>
<p>SAT or ACT test scores sent directly to our Admissions Office by the testing agency. GW's school code for the SAT is 5246 and for the ACT is 0664. </p>
<p>Here's my concern about the rec: I just finished skimming Michele Hernandez' "A is for Admissions". She suggests that a good rec accompanied by a low test score in the same subject(she was discussing SATIIs but I assume it applies to APs) would look dubious. Because either the school's program was substandard (definitely not the case here) or the rec itself was inappropriately good (I doubt that would be the case since D was strong in her classroom performance.) So Hernandez implies that low subject scores are a double whammy. </p>
<p>I thought that coaching to raise the SATIIs might help but since they weren't required, I wasn't sure if she would be helping or hurting her chances since they would probably be decent, but not outstanding, at best. </p>
<p>Anyone else want to weigh in on reporting or not? I can see it from either side...</p>
<p>Three 3s on APs exams taken after the junior year are hardly the "kiss of death" and in any event need not be reported. Our daughter (actually, two of our daughters) were accepted to several colleges with similar reputations to the ones you listed without reporting any AP exam scores (together they had mostly 3s and 4s along with a couple of 5s and a couple of 2s). In fact, our second daughter just finished her first year at a highly selective liberal arts college and still hasn't gotten around to submitting her AP scores and collecting the credits. </p>
<p>It's only on boards such as this that parents lament 3s without studying as "discouraging" and start thinking that with a 31 on the ACT their child still needs to do more on the standardized test front to get into a good college. Your daughter is well positioned for acceptance into any one of the colleges that you have listed so long as she has an academic record consistent with a 31 on the ACT, is reasonably well involved in extracurriculars, and writes a decent essay. Her teacher recommendations probably count for less than all of the above. </p>
<p>Frankly, my concern would not be whether your daughter will be admitted to a good college but whether she's ready for one if she's not even willing to do the minimum to prepare for an AP exam. I don't mean to criticize here -- I'm sure she's a great kid -- just offering food for thought.</p>
<p>I agree with jmmom, that you don't even need to send the AP scores unless she is looking to get credit for a course and even then you can send them once they are admitted to the college.</p>
<p>You only have to report the AP scores to the colleges if you want them to award you credit or use them for class placement purposes. Otherwise, there is no reason to report them. Also, you can send all of your AP scores together during the summer prior to enrollment in college. Any AP test taken your senior year are not even REPORTED until July after you graduate. So...don't even send the AP test results until after you accept admission somewhere. They will not "unaccept" you based on a 3 on your AP tests. DD took AP tests after her junior year, but she will not send her AP scores to the college until she can send them all at once...sometime at the end of July (she was accepted last December...).</p>
<p>we'd have to ask some adcoms how they view "no report" or a "3", but
*there are lots of reasons for not reporting your AP scores - didn't want to pay $$ to take the test (they're expensive!); app sent in prior to taking AP test/receiving AP scores)...
*3 is a passing score; at some schools, a 3 (in some subjects) will get you college credit. Not at the most selective, of course. But...
*if you're worried that "no report" will look like you did worse than a 3, go ahead and report. I think it won't help, but won't hurt.</p>
<p>I only have my own S' experience to go on - he was accepted to a lot of schools without sending AP reports. Johns Hopkins being the most selective among them, fwiw. His scores were 3's and 4's - he is another kid whose stdized test scores just never reflected his potential or achievement. With two college semesters behind him at two different schools, and 3.5+ GPA with a tough schedule, I think we can be confident of that.</p>
<p>To get some valuable "weigh-ins", meowmom, perhaps you could post your qx on the MIT/JHU or other boards where Admissions Officers hang out and post to answer qx. Whether or not your d is considering those schools, it would give you a current adcom's perspective. AdmissionsDaniel on the JHU board is very helpful and thorough, I find.</p>
<p>She should study and retake the ACT...if her score goes up to 32 or even 33, then she will be significantly helped! I definitely think a 33 on the ACT will help her tons. Especially because her SAT2s are low, and ACT means you don't have to submit SAT2s.</p>
<p>Has it occurred to you that your d. should report what she's done - she has nothing to be ashamed of. If she doesn't get into a particular college because all the other admittees scored 5s on their APs, would she want to be in that pool and be able to compete - she might be at the bottom of the class, struggling all four years to keep up, and not have the greatest learning experience. </p>
<p>I would look at all her scores, courses, etc. and then try to find colleges that were reaches, matches and safeties based on the data. It sounds like you've gone about this from the other end - "I want to go to X, Y or Z, so I need to be this kind of person" when her courses, grades and scores are telling you what kind of student she is. Nothing wrong with trying to improve and re-take the SAT in the fall, but shoving a square peg into a round hole usually ends badly. Wolf Blitzer went to SUNY Buffalo - you can name hundreds of successful people who didn't go to colleges that were uber-selective. It sounds like she has a solid record and if she draws up a reasonable list she'll have multiple offers.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reality check, parent2009. This is our youngest. Older sibs were both National Merit Scholars, AP Scholars,etc. She has grown up in their shadow. She works very hard at her regular schoolwork and ECs. I feel very responsible for any demoralization that she feels. I have harped at her so much about test scores, getting into college, blah, blah, blah, that she feels I think she is stupid. So there is a lot of momguilt here. Many of the kids at her school don't take the AP tests at all so that it was not considered an integral part of the course. In fact she had several term papers and tests in those courses and two dance performances that same week. So I can't judge her too harshly.</p>
<p>I am pretty confident that she could succeed at any of the schools she is looking at and be comfortable doing so. Based on her sibs' and their peers' recent experiences, I think that getting in and doing well once you get there are completely unrelated.</p>
<p>I agree with post #4. If your child's HS transcript shows that an AP course was taken, and the college application asks for AP courses and scores (many do), it will look like the scores might be worse than a 3.</p>
<p>If the application doesn't ask for the scores, or if the HS transcript doesn't indicate an AP course, no reason to report the scores with the application. Since some schools give credit for a score of 3, you may want to report after admission.</p>
<p>You may want to check if your HS puts the AP score on the transcript. Some have reported on CC that their HS puts the student's test scores on the transcript.</p>
<p>If the worse thing that you're dealing with on daughter number 3 is that she's not a national merit scholar like the other two then you're doing pretty darn well. Cut the kid a break, pat yourself on the back, relax -- and never breathe a word to her ever again about any test scores. She's fine.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If your child's HS transcript shows that an AP course was taken, and the college application asks for AP courses and scores (many do), it will look like the scores might be worse than a 3.
[/quote]
On what do you base this statement?</p>
<p>HOW IS A 31 ON THE ACT BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>I have no other comments .</p>
<p>parent2009, I count my blessings every day.</p>
<p>I just looked at the BC common app which came this week. It does not ask for the AP scores anywhere that I can see. The guidance office will not include any scores on the transcript unless you tell them to and you have to specify which ones.</p>
<p>So I guess "Don't ask, don't tell" but if they ask, tell?</p>