What to say to a D2 swim coach: interested in his school, but not sure about D2 swimming

Athletic Recruits
1

Asking for my son, rising senior.

He is a club/HS swimmer, but not terribly fast. He just recently decided that he wants to swim in college, and only then created an account on berecruited.com. No contacts from any coaches prior to this.
After he created an account, he received emails and spoke to several D3 coaches, and decided that D3 will be for him. He then contacted several coaches at D3 schools he is interested in, and got responses from several, and an interview with one so far - he is now very interested in that school.

All the D3 schools where he contacted the coaches are academic match - low reach, except, maybe, one, which is a true reach. All are expensive private institutions that we won’t be able to afford unless he gets a lot of merit aid (we won’t qualify for a lot of need based aid, only some, not enough to bring the cost to the affordable level).

Now, there is an in-state public school, only 45 minutes from home that is affordable and also a good academic match. i’m secretly thinking this will be the best return on investment for his undergraduate degree. It is D2, though. We heard that admission is somewhat unpredictable there. Their average unweighted GPA is higher than my son’s, but his scores are higher than their 75th percentile. (My son is in the IB program, so his lower unweighted GPA is due to a very rigorous course load).

He contacted the coach at the D2 in-state school and is scheduling a meeting with him next week. Assuming the training expectations are in line with what my son is willing to commit to, what should he say to the coach? I read that it is a good idea to be frank with the coach. I’m sure that scholarship money is scarce at D2 level, and he is not the top swimmer. In fact, we looked at their times from the conference meet, and in his best event (1650 free) he would be between #3 and #4 from the team, and 10th overall. So, basically, what would be nice is to just get some admission support from the coach.

Since we haven’t even started researching D2 swimming, I’m not sure how it works. My understanding is that he is a walk-on, he doesn’t need to sign the Letter of Intent. However, if he is receiving even a little bit of money for athletics, he needs to sign. Is that correct? Should this be openly discussed with the coach? I just feel that he isn’t so gung-ho about swimming that he should commit for a small amount of money even at a school that is his top choice. If he decides to go there, we can probably afford it outright. I think all of this is dependent on the commitment level that he is going to learn about at this meeting. So far, with D3 schools he talked to, he felt that commitment during school year was pretty close to what he is currently doing with the year round club swimming.

Any advice welcome!

2

I re read my post - I’m not sure I expressed myself well, when I said “he isn’t so gung-ho about swimming”. He is definitely interested in swimming in college, just wants the academics to be his first priority, and I’m not sure this is how it works at D2 level.

3

I think he should be honest and say that he really thought his academics and swimming times were more in line with a D3 schools, but he’s excited about this D2 school, academics is first for him, he wants to know how swimming is structured, etc. Coaches really are happy to hear academics is first and will set him up to talk to department heads, other students in his major, other team members with his major, etc.

As far as money, most swimmers don’t get a lot because the teams are so limited in what they can fund, but just ask. Most coaches want to know where you stand, what you need to go to that school.

4

First, the coach is offering him a meeting. The coach isn’t saying “come swim for me, I think you are the best recruit I’ll get this year.” Therefore, your son should go into the meeting, hear about the program, asking about the training commitments, talk about whether he would qualify to travel to away meets (since he won’t be as fast as others, and swims distance, there are limited roles for these swimmers on a team), and then ask about how the team’s swimmers fair academically, if they get support academically from the school, and how the admissions process works. Take a list of questions with you, and go through them. Make sure the coach understands if your family is in a financial position for your S to walk on or not, and his need for support through admissions if possible. On this topic, you should be quite clear. Say something like, “we can afford to pay for our S to come here to school, but we need your support in admissions, is that something that could happen if you and our S both decided this was a fit?” Your son should be the one asking the questions if at all possible.
THEN…come home, and ponder whether this might be a swimming fit for your S. If your S really likes it, then he reaches back out to the coach and continues the conversation. The coach does the same evaluation. Since your son is not highly competitive for the team, the coach will devote less time in recruiting him than in recruiting a “whale” to the team.

There are many merits to being on a collegiate swim team that have nothing to do with the swimming. If your S values those things, and is willing to commit to the time and energy it takes to be a collegiate swimmer, then this might be the team for him.

As far as the NLI is concerned, its a little too early to talk about signing a NLI. It will not be signed as a walk on. However, some schools like their athletes to sign, so they offer small token amounts (say books only) to an athlete to have them commit to a NLI.
Unless the school is a top 10 D2 school in swimming, my guess is the training regimen will be quite similar–or less–than what your S does in club today. However, be sure you understand “outside the pool” commitments like dry land, weights, mandatory study hours, community service hours, etc.

5

Thank you both.

swim4school, I’m not saying he is being offered a spot on the team, but I’d like to be prepared for any scenario.
I also appreciate your suggestions regarding the questions he should ask. Very good input.

A couple of follow up questions:

  1. I wasn’t going to go with him at all, and was counting on him asking questions. Despite being a fairly “helicopterish” parent deep down, I try not to show it and let him handle conversations like this :slight_smile:

  2. Your comments about being qualified to go to travel meets and swimming limited number of events, since he is a distance swimmer (true), are what concerns me. Are swimmers not allowed to branch out and try other events while on D1/D2 teams? When he was speaking to a D3 coach, my son described their club’s typical workout. They are very distance oriented, lots of distance free and IM sets. The D3 coach was very enthusiastic, saying that he likes the fact that my son is used to long yardage, as he can always develop speed, but it’s harder to develop endurance. No matter if it’s true or not, what my son heard was that he will not be pigeonholed into swimming the mile and 500 all the time, and will be given the opportunity to work on other events. For example, he usually swims 400 IM, but was put into 200 IM at HS State and did pretty well. In other words, my son is looking for a program where he can continue to develop. He has a tremendous love of sport, enjoys working on small things (turns, starts), is very detail oriented.

Can you speak a little about this concern, from your experience? And also, should I go with him or not? How is this viewed by a coach?

Also, just today one other D3 coach called him (by far, the fastest program he was looking into) practically out of the blue. In fact, S came home after morning practice and dry land and was taking a nap, when he got a call :).
We are going to see this school and the other D3 school where he had a very good conversation with the coach. The visits are in August. Both coaches told him they would be happy to meet with him in person then, talk more about both academics and swimming. Both schools are pretty high on his list.
I will obviously be there. What is the role of a parent at these meetings? If someone could point me to a thread where this was discussed, I will appreciate it.

6

I always let my daughter ask all the questions about the sport and the coach’s requirements for workouts, rules, etc. I let her ask most of the questions about academics. I pretty much asked all the questions about finances (not necessarily with the coach, but also with FA officer). My daughter tried to do the financial stuff, but it was really too complicated for her to understand how much our family would have to pay and where the money was coming from.

On one OV, I met the coach when I dropped her off. My daughter called me at the hotel and asked if I would go on the tour of the campus with her the next day . The coach/team/school did not include the parents much and in the long run it hurt them because when daughter asked my opinion on something I couldn’t give much feedback since I hadn’t been included in the discussions. Schools like to pretend that the student is making the decision (like the FAFSA people require the student to actually do the filing), but it really is a family decision, especially the money part. I was much happier at schools where it was treated as a family decision.

7

OP, let me try to give you my opinion, but its really just one opinion. First, its a good sign that you are getting D3 calls prior to July 1. D3 coaches know the rules for D1/2 and try to get a small jump on their competition.

In our case, our D had a list of questions she wanted to ask, and brought them with her to the coaches meeting. This may seem a little much, but we had three ooaches–of very high academic schools–make comments like “its nice to see you are prepared” or “did we make it through all your questions?” or in one case, took the index card from her, and checked each one off…

On the list, we had our D ask everything about the school–training, swim team dynamics, how coaches select swimmers for the team, what the coach needs for depth for the next season, etc. She also asked everything about academics. Then spouse or I took the tougher financial questions. How many scholarships, average scholarship per swimmer, do scholarships increase each year, percentage versus flat dollar amount. We also provided the financial information the coaches needed so they could scope their comments to us appropriately.

I tried to get our D to ask about next steps. With some coaches, she was okay to do that, others she was intimidated, so she gave us the sign, and we asked. Its always good to know leaving a meeting what happens next–even if its not exactly the news you want to hear.

Your goal with these first meetings is to get your S to have OV invites for the Fall so he can interact with the team in their setting. Even with the D2 school, as a potential walk on, you would want him to spend time with the team to get to know them.

As far as branching out to new events once in college, I would say…it depends. In most programs, coaches recruit for specific talent (I need a freestyle sprinter or I need a miler) but versatility is king. Most distance swimmers would be 500/mile/400IM or 200/500/mile. That is true until there is a hole in the lineup for some reason, and then the distance swimmer might be mile/400IM/200fly or such. It also depends on how the events line up in a meet. In my D’s case, she swims distance–200/500/mile. However, she rarely swims the 200 free in season meets because it is directly after the 1000 (which replaces the mile in dual meets). Therefore, her 200 free has suffered in college. Its hard to swim an event twice a year and be successful in it.

Your last question was…should I go with him to the meeting? Since this is the first interaction, and you do have some specific questions, and financial discussions to occur, I would say if at all possible, go with him. It indicates the interest level of the family in the school, and also gets you first hand information that impacts the whole family. Then, if he is invited back on a visit weekend, he goes alone. This next four months of decision making goes by fast, and somewhere in all the chaos your S will need to start his senior year and swim. Therefore, any support you can lend in the process will help your family get to a decision that is right for your S.

8

swim4school, I really appreciate such a detailed answer! I like the idea of bringing a list of questions. Right now, as he is talking on a phone with D3 coaches, he has a list sitting on his desk. I will suggest to take it to the meeting with D2 coach.
I will try to go if the timing works with my work schedule, I have S. the time that will work, and he was suggesting it to the coach. I think we have the date, but not the time at this point.

Also, if you don’t mind my further questions. Are OV at D3 a real possibility? We are visiting some of the schools where he had conversations with coaches, on our own dime and schedule this August, and he was told that they would be happy to meet with him. However, there was no mentioning of OV.

9

No problem on questions. We have lived this process, its hard and messy. OV at a D3 are indeed a possibility. At D3 schools, the swimmer can have unlimited OVs, and they do not count towards the 5 OV maximum of D1/2. D3 official visits are quite similar to D1 and D2, except the travel expenses. Typically a D3 school will cover food, lodging with a current swimmer, any entertainment but airfare or car travel is at your cost. Rarely does a D3 school have a large enough budget to pay for travel, but some do. If a parent accompanies a swimmer to an OV (drives them there, etc.) often a football ticket will be offered to the parents.

My guess is that currently its just a little early to hear about OVs for your S’s choice schools. When you are visiting in August, the subject might come up. If not bring it up if its a school he’s very interested in. OV’s cannot start until after the start of the school year, so typically Labor Day weekend or later.

Your visit in August will probably include a meeting with the coach, tour of the school, meeting with Admissions or Financial Aid. His OV would include a tour, a team event, watching team practice, perhaps a football or soccer game, and a team breakfast or social. The OV is more focused on selling him on the school via the team.

10

My daughter was invited to a few D3 OV’s. Some invitations arrived in August, some in November. Some of the schools had OV’s Novermberish, and some held a second set of OV’s in Feb/March. The process for D3 is a little less structured I think compared to D1/D2. Some coaches who were definitely interested did not invite her for an OV. I know other swimmers who were being recruited for D3 and were excellent candidates, but did not receive an invitation. One school just didn’t do them; if my daughter wanted to stay overnight, they would arrange for that, but they didn’t do the big weekend with a slew of recruits. Another school neglected to invite her, then apologized and expressed interest in having her since they had a big hole in her best event. The bottom line was that no invitation did not mean lack of interest.

I went with her to all the first visits with the coaches, and my sense was the coaches are very comfortable with that, and even expect it. She did most of the talking (as much as I wanted to jump in!). After their conversation, the coaches would ask me if I had any questions.

Every D3 school she visited talked academics first, asked for grades, scores, and courses she was taking senior year. They all made it clear the swimmers are students first, which really appealed to her. Most said they were somewhat flexible with the practice schedule, especially around midterms/finals.

As far as getting pidgeon holed, my sense was that the D3 coaches she spoke to would be willing to allow a swimmer to explore other options if they wanted. If you have a good backstroke, and you would like to pursue that more, they would find opportunities for you (though not necessarily at a championship meet). One mentioned swimmers working on other strokes/distances during the off season. My daughter is a 200 swimmer, but one coach felt that she has potential in her sprinting, so maybe he would work on that with her.

Enjoy the process! I hope it isn’t too stressful for you.

11

Thank you., VMT, and thank you again swim4school!

We just came back from our meeting with D2 coach (the school is only 45 min drive from our house). I thought it went really well and I’m glad I went with him. I was able to ask some critical questions that my son just wouldn’t be able to/was too shy to ask. I was also able to give him some feedback on how his conversation, um, interrogation was with the coach (he was interrogating the coach, not the other way around). If anything, this can be a good interview practice for him.

After my son was done with his questions, I asked bluntly if, after seeing my son’s times, the coach was interested in including him on a team, and the answer was “yes, definitely”. Regarding the athletic money - there is very little, and it goes to star athletes, which my son is not (the coach put it differently, but I can read between the lines). However, he had very precise info on the academic merit money, and was able to tell us exactly what my son would get for his current stats. He needs one more point on ACT to get the max award, so now he is really motivated to study and retake it in the Fall :).
Coach also promised to stay in touch, and asked to definitely let him know once S sends his application (the school is rolling admission). Coach will then reach out to the admissions and… “we don’t have a big red stamp that says “admitted” but we definitely let admissions know we are interested in a candidate. However, with his academics, I’m really not concerned about admissions”. I hope this is true!