What U.S Universities Should I Consider [International Student]?

College Search & Selection
1

Hey there, I’m an IB1 (DP) student in mid-term. I planned to apply to all the ivies (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UPenn, Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown) + USC, UChicago, UC Berkely, Rice and Duke for regular on 1 Jan 2018 with Cornell being my early decision but I feel like that’s not a balanced list and that I should have a majority of my universities suited towards these grade boundaries. I plan to study finance. I’d really appreciate it if you could give me some recommendations of universities in the U.S I should consider applying to. Below you’ll find all my stats.

School’s internal predicted grades:
HL:
English A:LAL - 5
Biology - 5
History - 5

SL:
Math Studies - 5
Business and Management - 5
Norwegian B (anticipated) - 4

SAT Subject Test Practice (taking the real tests in 2 weeks):
570/800 Literature
450/800 World History

SAT Practice (taking the real test in 3 months): 1000/1600

Extracurricular’s:
-IB papers study resource website (difference is all the questions from 1999-2016 are organized by chapters in the syllabus)

-YouTube channel with loads of helpful information for new-coming international students going to study at my school

-Made 2 websites for 2 intentional companies with no programming knowledge

2

Start by reading through everything here: https://educationusa.state.gov/

Then contact the advising center closest to where you live. The counselors will be able to tell you where students like you have been accepted in recent years, and whether or not those students found those colleges/universities to be affordable.

3

Where are you from? Your SAT results as it is look pretty low for Ivy league schools. If you don’t need financial aid, add less selective schools. If you want to study finance, you probably will go for math or economics undergraduate, right? These majors are very well established majors, so you will get education in most decent colleges. Also how you made websites without programming knowledge? Can you share link?

4

I’m guessing you are a UWC student, correct? I’m very familiar with the schools. Anyway congrats on your hard work and success so far!

I’ll advise that the schools on your list are extremely competitive. I can’t speak to acceptance rates for international students specifically, but published RD rates for these schools are for the most part in the single digits, as low as 5%, probably lower for Chicago, which some are speculating only accepted 2% of RD applicants this year. The actual rates are lower because these include “hooked” applicants, like athletes who’ve made arrangements through school athletic departments and are guaranteed admission, or nearly so.

Generally it is viewed and advised that NO ONE can be confident of acceptance at these schools, even if they have perfect ACT or SAT scores and the highest grades possible. Of course, people will be accepted but many will be denied admission with the strongest possible record.

Here’s an example: about 6-7 years ago we visited the most highly ranked liberal arts college (not on your list). At info session, the rep said 70% of applicants were fully qualified to attend the school and succeed academically and otherwise. At the time, it accepted 14% of applicants (much lower now). So 1 in 5 fully qualified students were accepted. Now imagine if that acceptance rate is 5% (but actually lower).

If you look at the SAT 25-75% range for Harvard, it is 1410-1600. So at least 25% of students have perfect scores and only 25%, including athletes and legacies, have 1410 or lower. It is similar for all the other schools. It’s not personal. It’s just a matter of very many students applying for too few seats.

Of course you can apply to all these schools, and maybe you would be accepted. I would never say otherwise, especially if you are a UWC student and are studying in a second language and/or have other circumstances that make you an especially attractive candidate. I would suggest, though, that you broaden your search to include schools with higher acceptance rates. If you are committed to studying in the US (and maybe your are not) then you would want a couple of schools with acceptance rates over 50% and are affordable.

The good news is that there are more than 2000 full-fledged colleges/universities in the US. Many, many have beautiful campuses, offer a full array of academic disciplines, and have lots of amazing people–students, faculty, and staff. Very few are as competitive as the ones on your list, but you can get an education similar to, if not equal to them.

It’s hard to make specific recommendations without knowing your interests and how much financial aid you might be looking for. Would you prefer an urban school or a smaller college town? Would you prefer a smaller school (under 5000 students)? Is a large one (over 15,000) okay? Is weather an issue? It is very cold and snowy at the northeastern schools. Is that okay? Are you interested in a science/engineering (STEM-science, technology, engineering, math) school or more of a liberal arts program?

If you are a UWC student, here’s a list of Davis Scholars schools in the US, which have a close relationship with the UWC community. I would explore schools these and speak to your college advisor about the program, which can include financial aid.

http://www.davisuwcscholars.org/partners

Take #26 Denison University for example. It is a small liberal arts college (LAC) in a small college town. It has a beautiful campus and excellent academic programs. I’ve seen several people here on CC recently mention being impressed on their visit to the school. It accepts over 30% of applicants (I believe) and gives generous financial aid.

33 Grinnell is an excellent small LAC out in the cornfields of Iowa. #32 Gettysburg is in a quaint Pennsylvania town where the largest battle of the American Civil War was fought. It has lots of historic battlefields that attract lots of tourists. It's great for history. #43 Macalester College is right in the Minneapolis-St.Paul metro area, so much more of an urban school, also with excellent academics. (It is cold there.) Lake Forest is in Chicago, which is a great city. Brandeis, Trinity, Richmond, Connecticut College, and many others on the list would be worth researching. WPI and Case Western are excellent STEM schools, though also competitive.

Unfortunately, there is a sort of mania for the Top 20 schools. There is an advantage to prestige. But really many other schools offer just as fine of an education and are much more accessible in terms of admission. Good luck!

5

I missed that you wanted to study finance. From that Davis list, I would suggest Bucknell, Richmond, and Rochester. All are outstanding with beautiful campuses and have strong business programs. Bucknell is in a small town. Rochester is on a small river just outside the city, which is mid-size. Richmond is in a nice area of the city, which is also mid-size and a pretty dynamic place on a big upswing. Students seem to love the city (often called RVA for Richmond, Virginia). Weather is nicer than at a northern school. ALL OF THESE ARE COMPETITIVE SCHOOLS, not nearly as much as the Ivies, but I would think you would also want some safer choices if they appeal. Wheaton College in Massachusetts is on the Davis list, has a business major, although it does not look like finance is a big part of it. Admissions is not as competitive as at the schools listed above in this paragraph.

The smaller LACs I mentioned, like Grinnell and Connecticut College, would probably not work as well for finance, although in the US anyway, as mentioned above, math majors and others often go into finance, which is a broad field. I’m sure students from Grinnell and Connecticut do go into finance and do well. Lake Forest does have a business major, and Forbes gives its admission rate as 55%.

One other on the Davis list you might consider is the University of Oklahoma. This is a large state (public) “flagship” university. I’m sure it has 20,000 students or so, counting grad students. It has big-time football and other sports. I’ve never been there so can’t speak to the city or the school culture. Academics-wise, it will certainly have larger classes than an LAC but still a world-class education. Some of the other state flagships on the Davis list (UNC, UVA, Michigan) are very highly ranked and are extremely competitive, especially for OOS/international students. You could look at those as well but chances of admission would be higher at Oklahoma, again still a very good school.

One thing to note about US schools, especially since you are interested in finance. Some universities admit generally to the university and some admit to specific programs, like business and engineering. If they admit generally, sometimes it is easy to later declare for a specific program, like business and engineering. Students might only need a minimum GPA. At other schools, it can be difficult to get into a specific program once you are there. For example, I’ve seen on CC that the University of Washington (Seattle) direct admits only a small number of very highly qualified students into the computer science (CS) program. Other students who are accepted to UW and want to study CS must apply to the CS program after a year or so at the school. Lots of UW students apply to that program, so it is very difficult to get into the program. So you would want to know at schools where you are interested if you need to apply directly into the business school or what the requirements might be to get into the business school (declare a business major) after you are there. Again, for example, when I attended, students at my school need at least a 2.5 (out of 4) GPA and then were automatically admitted to the business school in their sophomore year if they wanted to major in business. At other schools, they might just take the top 100 qualified students (already at the university) who are applying to that university’s business school. If 500 apply, only 20% will be accepted.

A note on US universities: the top 20 or so schools are mostly private (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.). Beyond that, though, any ranking is going to have a very mixed list of privates and publics. Universities of California, Michigan, North Carolina, and Virginia, and William and Mary, are public and top universities. In admissions, public universities typically make a large distinction between in-state (ISS) and out-of-state (OSS) students. This is because the state governments fund the schools, and they generally want to make them available to in-state students whose families are paying taxes in that state. For example, North Carolina reserves 84% (approximately) of places for state residents at UNC-Chapel Hill, the flagship. More OOS students apply for the 16% of OOS places than apply in-state for the 84% of in-state places. So much more difficult to be admitted for OOS students. I just thought that whole thing might be confusing to an international student. Hope that helped, and did not make it more confusing.

6

One more example: a family member recently graduated with a CS bachelors degree from a large public university NOT ranked in Top 10 of US public universities. They had been denied admission to the one Top 20 (overall) school to which they applied. They went right into a finance job making $100,000 per year. They are very bright, hardworking, and business savvy, and this is not a typical starting salary. But it does point out that it’s HOW you go to school not WHERE you go to school that is most important.

7

Your SAT practice scores don’t matter. However, if your actual SAT scores are the same as your practice scores then your chances at any of the schools that you listed are pretty much 0. Do you know why you have been having issues with the SAT practice tests? Do you find that large numbers of the questions on the practice exams are difficult or impossible to answer?

8

You haven’t told us the most important factor - can you afford $60,000+ per year?

If not, take Berkeley off your list (no financial aid for internationals) and read up on available financial aid at the other schools – along with the odds of you getting enough to attend.

9

kairmed, your classes are not rigorous enough (Math Studies and Business are frowned upon), and your predictions not strong enough. Very selective universities like the Ivies, Berkeley, Chicago and Duke usually expect students to at least take SL Mathematics and would much rather see Economics than Business. They also usually expect a nice mix of 7s and 6s). That is not to say that you should give up, but there are several things you can do:

  1. If you are taking "easy" classes like Math Studies and Business, you are expected to have 7s.
  2. Your HLs should add up to at least 18 points.
  3. Your SAT needs to be over 1300

Even if you can accomplish the above, all the universities you listed in your original post are reaches. You will still have to apply to 3-4 targets and 1-2 safeties.

On a separate note, the majority of the universities on your list do not offer Business/Finance as a major to undergraduate students, with the exception of Berkeley, Cornell and Penn.

Good targets to consider, if you can improve your SAT, include Indiana University, Penn State-University Park and Villanova.

I hope this helps.