What you don’t know about financial aid but should - New York Times Article

Financial aid starts with the premise that Cost of Attendance - EFC = Demonstrated need.

There are almost 4,000 colleges in the U.S. However there are less than 75 that meet 100% demonstrated need. It is the overwhelming number of colleges in the country that gap, your financial aid package.

The only thing that the FAFSA really does is determine your eligibility for federal aid.

The only thing that your FAFSA EFC of 0084, means that you are eligible for PELL grants, which are a federal entitlement. Depending on your state, you may be eligible for state aid. IF your school has FWS funds or SEOG Funds, your will eligible for those (however, there is never enough of this funding to accommodate every student who has a need). Unless your child is eligible for merit money, the public university in your home state would probably package your financial aid based solely on what federal and state aid that your family is eligible to receive.

Many schools will use the CSS profile or their own financial aid forms to determine your eligibility for their own institutional aid. Just because the you and the college are not on the same page, does not mean that you were gapped.

A school that meets 100% of your demonstrated need determines what they perceived your need to be.

Because college determines your family’s financial need, there is often there is a disconnect between what the college thinks that you need and what you/your family think you need.

The college looks at your income and assets determine how much you can afford to pay and how much of their money you are eligible to receive.

There is no uniform formula. Harvard has a $34 Billion endowment. this is the reason that they have chosen to fund families making 200k in income and having “typical assets” where University of Rochester with a $2 billion endowment would most likely have this family be full pay. Because Rochester (and pretty much any other college in the country) does not have as much money as Harvard, they can’t give the kind of financial aid packages that Harvard gives.

Some schools do not count home equity, while other schools may consider a multiplier of 1x your salarly, 2x your salary etc. Other schools may feel that the entire amount of home equity can be used as a resource to determine your ability to pay for your child.

With retirement funds, the FAFSA does not look at the amount of money in your retirement account. They only look at the contribution that you make to the retirement account. Some profile schools not only look at what you contribute to your retirement account but they will also ask you how much do you have in the account.

I totally understand your frustration because this process is extremely vexing for families who own their own business, farms, are blended families or divorced/ divorced and remarried families. Princeton only looks at the income of the students natural parents, while Chicago and Vanderbilt only looks at the income and assets of custodial parents. Other schools look at every one, meaning if you are divorced and both you and your ex spouse have remarried, there are 4 incomes being taken into consideration.

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We used both FAFSA and CSS and many other forms. So by “need” I mean what the FAFSA determined (0084). As we have no income and few assets (retirement funds and other not considered, home )


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FAFSA is a federal form. It doesn’t really determine “need” since it doesn’t look at all sources of income/assets. The Feds certainly have no authority in such matters when it comes to a college giving institutional funds.

You do realize that someone could have a VERY low income and millions in assets, and yet FAFSA wouldn’t count any of the assets? So, a FAFSA EFC is not reliable at all, which is why colleges that “meet need” do not use it.


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about lost "my religion" when they told me that our business financial loss was actually a gain! <<<

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that’s because businesses deduct things that schools think “hide income”…expenses like: cars, phones, insurance, gas, and depreciation.

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We own an less than one percent share in a company that has less than 30 employees and has never shown a profit in 10 years. It almost qualifies as a hobby. But that is not how “the computer program” ranks it according to the FA person.
I just think the college should not advertise itself as “meeting full need” when it obviously “gaps”
It is very disappointing but I am sure I am not the only one. Sadly it targets lower income people who are suffering business losses. It’s so clear to me that the next step is full pay students from the wait list since of course my S will not be attending.
I about lost “my religion” when they told me that our business financial loss was actually a gain!


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Can you clarify. You said that you own “less than 1%,” but then talk about “sufffering business losses.”

How much can a person lose in “business losses” if they own less than 1% unless the business is gigantic?

Not just “retirement,” needs to be in “qualified” retirement funds, to be excluded.

OP, want to name the college, even privately? You seem to be saying they calculated $xxx need, wrote it, sent it, then shorted you.

If the business isn’t profitable, give up your 1% share and take the business gains or losses off your taxes and thus off your FAFSA and CSS. There are a lot of people who find out that owning a beach house with a sibling or holding title to the grandparents’ condo hurts them when it is time for college. How is the school supposed to know if the condo is a second home or one they have access to for only 7 days per year?

@twoinanddone, I would think a tax record tells the truth in a case like that. A condo is worth x, whether you use it or not. Land tax record. IRS earning report. Same with holding a title with a brother, grand parent or sibling. All land is surveyed and taxed. We don’t own a beach house – I wish we did! As for selling, its a bit late for that between now and Monday. Yeah, the FA person said it is really just too bad when people are underwater on a property. Still considered an asset!

A property that’s underwater (more is owed on it than the fair market value) would not be considered an asset that’s of any use to the owner in terms of contributing to college expenses.

Right…property equity is what is used. If you have none…what amount would,that contribute as an asset? $0.

IDOC transmits data to schools – it does not impose a standard formula. Rather, it provides schools with software and options that they can configure according to their own preferences.

@lookingforward - from another thread, it appear that OP is referring to UVA.

Each school has its own formula. You can give identical information to 10 different colleges and get back 10 different results.

We’ve had other posters who seemed on the hook even with underwater properties. This came up before for income property.

Yes, saw the UVa ref, but not sure if this is a son or daughter, since posts mention both.

OP cross-posted yesterday with a link to the same NYT article in the UVA forum:

DS got “admit-denied” A new form of “financial aid”
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/1987286-ds-got-admit-denied-a-new-form-of-financial-aid.html

@thumper1, @lookingforward, @austinmshauri They can and will do anything they want. If you read the article it points that out. But it is still fraudulent to advertise yourself as “meeting full need” when what you mean is “meeting whatever we feel like”; ie gapping. This is why many colleges have stopped using that phrase. One by one colleges have stopped using that in promotional materials.

A property that’s underwater (more is owed on it than the fair market value) would not be considered an asset that’s of any use to the owner in terms of contributing to college expenses

@BelknapPoint One would think so, However, that is not what the FA rep told me.

What school is this? Because it would be really helpful and informative to have a list of schools that consider a possession that has a usable value of $0 for education expenses to reduce need-based awards. I wasn’t aware that any schools did this, and if any do I imagine that the list is pretty short. But let’s get the list going as a service to those who want to avoid the bad apples.

@BelknapPoint

The OP is talking about UVA. She started a thread on that forum with the same vent.

I would have been less heated if they had done this in a more timely way.

Who should get to determine need if not the entity giving out the money? We’ve had families on CC who earn $250k or more per year who don’t believe they should have to pay because the cost of living in their area is high. If schools left it up to families to decide what they want to pay, how many are going to offer to pay $35k or more/year? Colleges have to determine need somehow, and using the FAFSA formula doesn’t give them enough of a picture of family finances. It seems to me that you might have assumed the college’s commitment to “meet full need” was somehow related to the FAFSA EFC. Unfortunately, that’s a common error.

Did your daughter apply to any financial safeties? If not, she may need to take a gap year so she can build a new list of schools. How much can you pay without borrowing? If you quality for full Pell that’s ~$5800. She can take the federal student loan (~$5500/year) and if she works summers she can probably earn another ~$3k. That’s ~$14k. Does your state offer grants? If so, add those to your budget. Are her stats high enough to qualify for guaranteed merit anywhere? If they are, I’d have her apply to schools that will offer her a tuition grant. If you can’t pay much/anything for college, commuting may be an option. Are there any cc’s or 4-year schools near you? I understand your disappointment, but if you can’t afford this school you need to start helping her form a new plan.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/1987286-ds-got-admit-denied-a-new-form-of-financial-aid.html#latest

I think it’s a son.

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One would think so, However, that is not what the FA rep told me.


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Either the rep misheard you or you misrepresented the situation. If the property is truly underwater (owing more than it’s worth) then it’s not an asset. However, if you’ve deducting the heck out of it and not showing a profit, that’s not being underwater.

I’m still trying to figure out how owning 1% of a company resulted in huge losses, unless the company is a huge family-owned company.