That is, at what point do other factors start becoming more important than GPA?
Please understand that two GPAs are applicable, weighted and unweighted, and that they differ. Further, for many top schools, curricular rigor complements GPA, as THE critical selection element. Therefore, it’s not quite as simple as what is a competitive, top school GPA; also crucial are how many AP, Honors, and IB classes were included and how did one perform in those more-demanding courses.
Fair enough, but what would you say assuming a demanding, rigorous curriculum?
UW 3.9+
DS had an UW GPA under 3.8 and he got into Columbia EA. I think it was closer to 3.7 than 3.8. Lots of rigor and also a pattern of improving grades.
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3.80+ . . . BUT, a few will be admitted with less, due to other factors, and many will be denied with more, again due to other factors. While I am sure you are fully aware of this, @bowerland, I emphasize that the admissions and decision processes at the most-selective schools are “art,” not “science.” One simply cannot insert quantitative data into an algorithm to obtain a solution. To illustrate, how are one’s essays and recommendations assessed, or curricular rigor, or secondary school stature and grading tendencies, or ECs, and much more? With the razor-thin margin at the top schools between acceptance and rejection, the difference resulting from a super essay, in comparison to a good one, is likely to be decisive.
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There is no “set” competitive GPA. At some schools it is very hard to earn a 4.0, at others it is easy to earn a 4.0.
Student GPAs are often taken into context of other high-achieving students that come from the same high school. That way adcoms can determine what kind of GPA symbolizes rigorous work, or if high gpas are a dime a dozen.
Truthfully you can not tell very much from GPA. Only that the student did great at what they had to work with. Example: I had an UW GPA of 4.0 and weighted GPA of 4.5ish (depending on who calculates it). But came from a suck school that only offered 5 AP classes with an AP test pass rate of less than 10%. Highest ACT for entire school was 28. So even though I took every hard class available, my core academic foundation was not strong enough for me to be competitive at the highly selective schools. Now, holistic admissions are sup post to account for these circumstances and reward those students who come from underachieving schools but in reality they still have to consider the ability of the student to be successful in the school. Does the student have the academic foundation. Now with that said I attend a highly regarded public university and have not had any academic issues in a fairly demanding academic major. So in the end I would say that the GPA needs to be backed up by ACT/SAT and AP scores to really mean something. Good luck.
I think the number is somewhat fluid. An UW 3.7 with very high test scores and amazing ECs has a good shot at any school, especially if they took the hardest courseload at their school. My kid with an UW 3.7 (but rock star test scores) got into U of Chicago (with merit), Swarthmore, and Harvey Mudd (and everyplace else applied to) two years ago. I think schools SAY that GPA is king, but their actions show that test scores, which make it easier to compare applicants across high schools, actually ARE king at many schools.
Perhaps it would have been clearer to ask “When does your GPA start becoming a negative”? I gather from the answers here that it’s around a 3.8-3.9, depending on other factors like scores, rigor, and class rank?
Also, Ctesiphon, how exactly do they compare with past applicants from the same school? Do they put your transcripts side-by-side (sounds very time-consuming)? If they just look at the cumulative GPA, how do can they judge the relative class rigor?
That’s a reasonable premise @bowerland, but I’d highlight a point made is posts #5 and #6. Some secondary schools are “easy graders,” while others are quite difficult. The top colleges and universities (and, especially, their Regional Admissions Officers) will know this and absolutely will include it in their aggregate admissions evaluation. I remember reading a post last year from a senior (at a well known private school) whose GPA was about (and I’m speculating) a 3.3, BUT he was in this class’ top 10 or 15 (again, I’m guessing) percent. He was admitted to several excellent schools, which obviously suggests the 3.3 was essentially “upgraded,” based on his class rank – and, probably, complemented by his standardized test results, curricular rigor, etc.
Thank you!
For context, I’m taking tough classes at an “easy grader” school with just under a 3.9 GPA (because of some serious health problems). Sounds like that wouldn’t be what makes or breaks my application, then?
I know this probably sounds stereotypically CC-silly, sorry!
@bowerland: All you – or anyone else – can possibly do is to be challenged by tough (hopefully, the toughest) courses offered at your secondary school and to perform very well . . . and you are doing precisely that. No university or college could ask you to do more. And you’re not being “stereotypically CC-silly;” rather, you’re contentious, which is a critical life-attribute.
Just keep working hard at your demanding high school curriculum and I’ll wager things will work out well. I sincerely wish you good luck.
This is a useful thread. Last year our D had a 3.78 un-weighted / 4.35 weighted. She has since improved to 3.8 something. We have thought about the answer to this question a lot. She has 36 ACT and four APs already completed with five more thus year. She got three 5s and a 4 on her AP tests. All the AP classes are tough ones except psychology. In looking at admitted student profiles, she would be positioned better with a 3.9. If you have rigor, I don’t think there is a significant difference between 3.9 and 4.0 but below 3.8 at an Ivy or top LAC you are beginning to be on the wrong side of the curve. As TopTier indicates the admissions officer should have a school profile in front of them that helps with context but if your high school very rarely has students admitted to Ivys the admissions officer may not be terribly familiar with what a 3.8 means. I guess we will know for sure in two months won’t we.