<p>I've had acquaintances get reaccepted after doing a year at a CC and bringing up their grades.</p>
<p>But that was UCLA. I'm not sure what Cal does.</p>
<p>Obviously nobody is prevented from going to a community college, at least in California. All California community collleges are, by law, open admission to anybody who has either graduated from high school or completed their GED. So, sure, somebody who flunks out of Berkeley can freely pick up an AA from a community college. </p>
<p>However, the question is can that guy then then transfer to a 4-year university? So I decided to fiddle around with the CSUMentor website, which is the consolidated website for admissions to all the CalStates, and I actually decided to go through the app as a transfer student (which is what you are if you have completed ANY college credits). And yep, there it is on section 8 of the application - a question that asks you to list all your previous colleges attended, as well as asking you whether you are eligible to reenroll at all the institutions previous attended, and if not, why not. Not only that, but you are then required to submit official transcripts from all schools you previously attended, even if you did not earn any credits. So the guy who came to Berkeley and got F's in all his classes (and thus earned no units) is still required to submit a Berkeley transcript showing all those F's. </p>
<p>I have to imagine that having to reveal that you flunked out of Berkeley and are no longer in good standing to return, as well as having to present an official Berkeley transcript that is riddled with bad grades is not going to make you look good to the CSU adcom. Lest you think that the adcom won't care about that stuff, well, if they really didn't care, then why would they ask for it? </p>
<p>Now I guess you could lie about it. I guess you could just say that you never attended Berkeley. However, even leaving aside the ethical ramifications, as a practical matter, if CSU found out later that you lied, they could revoke your degree. </p>
<p>That all gets down to my basic point. I can understand if a guy is simply not good enough to get a Berkeley degree, he should not get it. But why do you want to then interfere with his chances of getting a degree from a lesser school, like a CalState? What purpose does that serve? Look, he screwed up, and so he lost his Berkeley student status. Isn't that punishment enough? Why keep hassling him about it even after he's left Berkeley? Let the guy get a degree from somewhere else with a clean slate. </p>
<p>So I think, at least for the purposes of CSU transfer admissions, Berkeley should just take those failing grades and 'hide' them, the way that MIT hides freshman failing grades. If a CalState asks for a transcript, just send one that conceals those failing grades. I'm not talking about concealing them in all cases. Like if the guy is trying to transfer to Stanford, then, sure, Cal should send the real transcript out. But we're talking about a CalState here. Is it really so wrong to give failing Berkeley students free passage to a CalState?</p>
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I've had acquaintances get reaccepted after doing a year at a CC and bringing up their grades
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<p>Funny you would say that because Cal does that too. In fact, the guy I was referring to did just that and got back into Berkeley.</p>
<p>Of course the problem was that he came back to Berkeley and flunked out again. The problem was that while he was readmitted, he was readmitted on probation because his Berkeley cum GPA was still below a 2.0. In fact, being below a 2.0 was precisely why he got expelled in the first place. So he came back on probation, so he still had to raise his cum Berkeley GPA above a 2.0 in 1 semester. This he could not do. He raised it, but still not to above a 2.0. So they kicked him out again.</p>
<p>The point is, for whatever reason, clearly this guy was not meant to go to Berkeley. Fine. So let the guy go to a CalState and get his degree there.</p>
<p>People who go to Berkeley, really, honestly should worry less about their grades. I mean, I'm in Germany right now, and this name holds weight, even here. I have to meet with my professors every couple weeks to discuss my progress and determine an appropriate grade on a 1-6 scale (Which the Study Center here translates out to a grade. 1 being the above the curve (A+), 6 being utter failure. with 2-5 representing actual grades A-D). But one of my professors was somewhat reluctant to give me a grade for the class or even discuss the matter with me until he found out I went to Berkeley. He immediately warmed up to the idea. Berkeley's name will do more for you on your grad school apps and in the real world than any grade you can recieve here. As long as you maintain over a 3.0, you'll be golden. Berkeley is extremely difficult and rigorous, and people respect our education, because we are experts in our field when we get that BA, BS, BfA or whatever. I can say for a fact, I know people who simply have bachelors of arts from Berkeley and know more and are far more qualified in their respective fields than a lot of people who have their Masters from other universities.</p>
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As long as you maintain over a 3.0, you'll be golden.
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<p>Yeah, but that's a pretty big conditional, don't you think? Believe me, there are PLENTY of people studying difficult majors and working their butts off, and can still only wish to have a 3.0. Heck, some of them are in danger ouf flunking out entirely. </p>
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Berkeley is extremely difficult and rigorous, and people respect our education, because we are experts in our field when we get that BA, BS, BfA or whatever.
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<p>I'm afraid I have to say that this is not completely correct. What is more accurate to say is that certain majors at Berkeley are extremely difficult and rigorous. </p>
<p>However, there are certain other majors that, to be perfectly blunt, are not very difficult or rigorous at all, and consequently there really are plenty of students in those majors who just don't work very hard or often times barely even show up to class. It's sad but true. There really are majors where you can pass without barely lifting a finger.</p>
<p>"Yeah, but that's a pretty big conditional, don't you think? Believe me, there are PLENTY of people studying difficult majors and working their butts off, and can still only wish to have a 3.0. Heck, some of them are in danger ouf flunking out entirely."</p>
<p>thats a failure of the system then.</p>
<p>In what was is it a failure of the system, confidential? And, how you would you fix this it is is a failure?</p>
<p>Andrewtx, perhaps people here should care less about their grades, but others should care more, and what about people at other schools? How is Berkeley any different in this respect, if your aim is law or med school and GPA seems to be key to such things? Isn't the average person here driven and doesn't this person want to do "well?"</p>
<p>There are easy departments definitely in Berkeley, but a lot of them also tend to be smaller, so you develop a personal connection with the professors and the GSIs. The German Department is by no means easy, but it is probably easier than say... MCB or any engineering department, simply because the classes are small and the professors are not set by any quota to give out a certain number of As, Bs, Cs, Ds, and Fs. You do A work and put in effort, you get an A. </p>
<p>Now comes the infamous American Studies department -- it's not as easy as everyone says, especially in the Honors Seminars, I've actually had to struggle in a few to get the A. (here comes the barrage of "LOLs" and "OMG U r 2 stupid 2 go 2 C4l!" comments) They require you to do a huge amount of work and independent research and your work is often and thoroughly scrutinized by the professors and GSIs. </p>
<p>Also remember, there are majors that don't require a lot of work to "pass" and by pass we mean a C- or better. Yea, that's not hard at all at Cal. Getting a B+ or better in many courses though, requires talent, hard work, blood, sweat, and tears. But every program there is worth it -- bar none.</p>
<p>Now, to DRab: I'm not debating that -- but I think too many students at Berkeley get their panties in a bunch when they get a B+ and freak out that they aren't going to a good grad school. If people are truly driven and deserve it, they'll get it regardless of a lower grade somewhere. Furthermore, I find a lot of people at Berkeley worry entirely -too much- and lose perspective about the meaning of College, which is to go out and explore the world you live in and get a well-rounded education</p>
<p>DRab,
you brought up the point about flunking students going to CC before I could, but I agree that that course would most likely be the best option for anyone. </p>
<p>I highly doubt having a failing semester (or even two) at Berkeley would result in a person not being admitted to a CSU or even to another UC. They tend to be forgiving with transfer students, especially ones from CCC's. If they see an upward grade trend, then that's the most important thing.</p>
<p>I honestly don't have too much pity for a failing Cal student. I'm sorry, but people know their limitations. If you are failing every engineering class you take one semester, you probably shouldn't be trying to take more engineering classes the next semester expecting to do really well. That's just common sense. </p>
<p>And one more thing, why go to a huge, competitive, public school if your complaint is that it is a huge, competititive, public school? Plenty of small, moderately prestigious LAC's would accept any Berkeley admit, and offer adequate financial aid I'm sure.</p>
<p>Andrew:</p>
<p>What you say is accurate, but for those who worry about their GPA, like myself, live in reality. The reality is that GPA accounts for half of admissions to graduate school--especially med/law school--and the other your exam grade (LSAT/MCAT). That's the reality of it.</p>
<p>Those who want to go to graduate school have less time to "explore the world" because then we would not get into our ideal school. A 3.1 would not get us into a med/law school...not even a crappy one. The statistics are on the career center's website.</p>
<p>Saying this, I explore the world during my winter and summer breaks "explore" because I travel etc...while I save the rest of the year basically entirely dedicated to academics. This may seem lame, but this is the only way that people who want to go to med/law school will get there. People who do worry are just facing the facts.</p>
<p>Delicatess,</p>
<p>Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're wrong. I know people in medical and law schools with less than 3.5 GPAs. Good work experience can make up for a less than stellar GPA, and there are also post-bac pre-med programs that can get really serious pre-meds into med school.</p>
<p>The only person who won't get into med/law school is the one who doesn't seek out the variety of options available to her.</p>
<p>UCLAri: </p>
<p>Ok, I want to go to Columbia or NYU for law; so yeah, I'm right eh? I saw the stats on the website, and they are really scary.</p>
<p>And if you don't get in? Is that the end of your legal career? Don't mistake going to Columbia for making you a good attorney.</p>
<p>The point is, I bet you could seriously improve your odds of getting into Columbia or NYU by simply working for two years for a Senator or Representative, or doing paralegal work. A good GPA isn't the apex of your life experience. I can't stress enough how little my GPA has mattered in the scheme of things, even in applying for top grad schools. True, I did really well, but my point stands. I have a friend at Stanford Med who had a 3.2 overall GPA, and a friend at Loyola Law School who had a 3.7 GPA. </p>
<p>Sometimes, you just have to let life happen. Trust me.</p>
<p>Again, I also want to stress that my anecdotal evidence is not proof of a trend. It just shows that people with high or low GPAs end up at very interesting places.</p>
<p>And don't trust stats on the website. They tend not to show the whole picture, but try to get people to self-select to ratchet up their own stats.</p>
<p>Well I'm going to do internships during the summer for local law firms, but I think most applicants to those 2 will have done internships as well. So basically it's just the vying for grades/scores that will ultimately determine it. I heard that law schools fill half of their class based purely on scores/GPA and the other half through additional ECs.</p>
<p>I've only done about 2 other extracurriculars at university...dance and choir.
Will that suffice?</p>
<p>Hey it's okay though... If I don't get in, because I really, really, really, want to go to NYC for grad school, I'll just jump off Evans. :)</p>
<p>Well, you're only looking at people who go straight to law school. I'm talking about REAL work experience, like the kind where you only work and don't even think about school. It's funny how foreign a concept it is to most undergrads...</p>
<p>The difference between 21 or 22 year-old admits and 24 or 25-year-old admits is usually quite striking. Consider that going out and working for two or three years might make you a much stronger candidate than you are in your current doe-eyed undergraduate youthful state. And don't take that too harshly, 'cause I was the same way a few years back.</p>
<p>W-o-r-k? I see...what is that?
Since a Juris Doctorate takes about 3 years, I really want to get a move on and finish my education in one go. If I were to stop, I'd be making probably in the mid 30K to early 40K stapling papers in a bank.</p>
<p>However, it has been an odd dream of mine to work for the World Bank in Europe for a little, except I'm not doing math-based economics, but the B.A. one.</p>
<p>I am probably still going to apply straight from university. However, I do want to do the EAP program to the UK for one semester, probably my last year. Except that is moreso for fun rather than for an "enlightening" experience that would make my application to law school seem more appealing.</p>
<p>Oh man, I can't stress enough how important doing EAP is. I did EAP and UCDC, and they were truly the two best experiences of my college career.</p>
<p>Besides, pub life IS enlightening. :-D</p>
<p>Ah...pub life eh? I'm not an alcoholic though, although I will train to be one if/when I do study abroad for the first time in my life. It's a shame that I need to travel abroad to enjoy my university life.</p>
<p>Well my plan is to finish off my economics requirements before my senior year, then only do English abroad since that should require less work, I hope.</p>
<p>Did you have to apply with a certain GPA for UCDC? Were you a polisci major? Hmmmm, interesting. Maybe it'd look good on my app; I mean it'd be enjoyable.</p>
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Maybe it'd look good on my app; I mean it'd be enjoyable.
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<p>This is the wrong reason to do it, trust me. Do UCDC if you are interested in really being part of DC for 15 weeks. Otherwise, you'll hate it. DC is not for a resume padder, it's for someone with an interest in the DC atmosphere. </p>
<p>I don't know what Cal does for its UCDC program, but UCLA required a 3.5 minumum, and I was told that UCLA's program was one of the pickier ones. Either way, it's a great experience and well worth the humidity and miserable weather.</p>