What's available at Chicago vs. colleges in general

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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<p>I’ll be an entering freshman at Chicago this month. But I know a lot of people who will be facing the college search and admissions process soon. Of course, they will have to find and choose colleges on their own, but I’ve been thinking a lot about what different colleges have to offer. Mainly, can you get most of the important stuff Chicago has to offer somewhere else, somewhere that’s a good bit easier to get into? What can’t you get at other places? How widely does the student environment vary? I have a strong feeling that Chicago is a great match for me, but I’ve also been thinking about where else I could have been happy.</p>

<p>I’ve been trying compare top 100 private universities, good state schools like U of Illinois Urbana and UC berkely, top 20 liberal arts colleges and lacs that are towards the bottom 100. Although individual schools can vary greatly, these seemed like sensible broad categorizations. I wanted to discuss what experiences you think can be found at these different types of schools (or specific schools you know about), how they compare with each other, and how they compare to Chicago. I know there’re a lot of things to consider, and people have to go through their own process of finding unique fits. But it seems like it might be worthwhile to talk about what kind of education and college experience is available.</p>

<p>Some specific questions I’ve been asking myself:</p>

<p>It seems like Chicago students are really into their classes and work. They are often excited about what they are doing, enjoy looking into subjects beyond what they are doing for class, and like talking about it with their classmates. There is a good social environment for people really passionate and curious about academics. Is this kind of social environment hard to find?</p>

<p>It seems like no matter how talented a person is or what subject they are interested in, they can find teachers and classes that can challenge them and teach them in that subject. Do you think that there are a lot of places a Chicago student would simply be bored? Do a lot of these places simply not have the vigor and challenge Chicago can offer?</p>

<p>It seems like Chicago can get you into pretty much any graduate or professional school in any area. I’m assuming a bit here. But it seems like if you have the talent and motivation, Chicago has the resources, preparation, and opportunities. Do you think that at a lot of places, it would be nearly impossible to get into a top graduate school regardless of talent and work because the schools simply do not offer the resources/teaching/preparation/connections?</p>

<p>It seems like, although there might be some bad experiences, you can find a lot of good teachers at chicago that will mentor, challenge and help you. In general, it seems like the school cares a lot about educating undergraduates and putting resources in the hands of students, and anyone at the school can get a good education. How would you compare the quality of education at other places?</p>

<p>Chicago seems like a safe place that can keeps you physically, mentally and socially healthy. The administration cares about your well being and students form peer and adult networks that can help with physical and emotional hard times. It doesn’t seem like there is pressure to be in a certain group, join or not join a greek organization, be a certain way, etc... Rather, most people can find good friends that they enjoy spending time with and who have common interests. Do you think this kind of care and acceptance is hard to come by?</p>

<p>These are just things I’ve been thinking about out of my own curiosity and because I want to know what’s available to my peers and people still applying to college. How do schools compare on these issues across the top 100 usnews schools, private schools and state universities, universities and LACs, specific schools you know, and so on. I don’t pay much respect to usnews ranks, but they do seem like a good starting point for categorizing places and for considering how selective they are.</p>

<p>Of course, I haven't even started college yet! Maybe my perspective on all this will drastically change. But I am interested about it and I want to know what other people think and what your experiences are.</p>

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<p>Ugh. I had a long response to this that was deleted.</p>

<p>Short version:</p>

<p>I've asked myself a lot of these questions too, and I think that you're mostly right. You can find many comparable experiences at many schools, but it will be easiest to find that experience at a school like Chicago. It will be smacking you in the face rather than a bit of a treasure hunt.</p>

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<p>Oh,</p>

<p>I wasn't really taking a position on how available these things are at other schools. Looking back at my post I can see how I might have implied otherwise, but I wasnt in any way being facetious or sarcastic. </p>

<p>I was earnestly asking, if someone really likes chicago, to what degree can you get most of its benefits at someplace that isn't as competitive to get into.</p>

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<p>I read your post as such.</p>

<p>Here's what I can say:</p>

<p>My good friends from high school honestly scattered to the winds. Some go to top U's (Stanford, Harvard, CalTech, CMU), some to top LAC's (Vassar, Pomona, Carleton, Oberlin), one to a third tier public U, one to a community college. One of my friends transferred from ~#25 U to ~#50 U, another chose ~#50 over ~#15, another chose a school nobody's ever heard of (including a lot of CC folks) over a ~#20 LAC. So I feel I might have a good vantage point.</p>

<p>When we all get together for dinner and talk about-- what else-- how amazing our respective colleges are, we all tell similar stories. All of my friends are smart people--really smart people-- but they are all smart in different ways and chose schools that highlight how they are smart. Because I'm a bit more of a serious student than a bunch of my friends, I decided to choose a school that caters to the serious student in me. And in the case of the community college friend, she has financial and family reasons for staying close to home.</p>

<p>I would also argue that depending on what you want, Chicago might not be the best school for you. If you are an aspiring sports journalist, you probably want a school with a great sports team and a good newspaper. If you want to go into pharmacy, you're better off at UIC. If you want to double-major in education and English at a women's college, you also won't find that at Chicago.</p>

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<p>One generalization that we can make accurately, and which has been written up quite a few times, is the quality of the mentoring that kids get at places like Chicago and its private U peers (Stanford, Ivies etc.). This article from the Michigan Daily says it better than me: <a href="http://www.michigandaily.com/content/real-reason-you-didnt-win-rhodes-scholarship%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.michigandaily.com/content/real-reason-you-didnt-win-rhodes-scholarship&lt;/a> </p>

<p>You will find the same complaint at Berkeley, Wisconsin and a number of other top publics. You will find the same complaint about jobs, internships and a host of other issues at these public universities much more than at a U. Chicago.</p>

<p>The reason is twofold: Size and money. These top state universities are huge. Their honors colleges can have as many members as the whole undergrad population at Chicago. So the risk of being lost in the sea is greater.</p>

<p>This is not to say size does not have advantages. At a U. Mich, one can also draw on a variety (and depth) of resources that Chicago does not have. </p>

<p>It all depends on the student.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the link newmassdad...very informative and helpful for my D that never made it off the U Chicago waitlist and landed at U Mich. </p>

<p>So far, so good for her there...but she just started. She loved her summer course at U Chicago and the intellectual environment there, and fortunately seems to be finding the same kind of group at Michigan (but I think the school is so big, you're bound to find others you have common interests with). She's happy with her professors and because she's in the RC, she has very small classes. She will also be doing research with a professor as a freshman which she's really looking forward to.</p>

<p>I think she still wonders how different her experience would be had she gotten off the waitlist at Chicago, but she is determined to make the most out of what U Michigan has to offer and I think from what I see so far, she'll enjoy her college years there.</p>

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<p>2fc,</p>

<p>FWIW, I went to a college in Michigan even larger than U. Mich, which shall remain nameless. As your daughter is finding, there are many advantages to the larger environment, both social and academic. </p>

<p>Personally, I don't think most kids would be affected at either kind of place, but as the link hints, a few could be.</p>

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<p>I believe 3 Chicago students won Rhodes Scholarships in 2008. From what I understand the College has only recently put together a concentrated effort to help students prepare. Historically Chicago has been more graduate focused, leading the nation for something like 20 years in Fulbright-Hays recipients.</p>

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<p>idad,</p>

<p>Not exactly true. U. Chicago has a pretty good track record with Rhodes. In fact, since 1998, Chicago is #3 (15), behind Harvard(34) and Yale (23). Not a bad track record.</p>

<p>One reason Chicago does well in winning national scholarships and fellowships is because of the advising system. It may not be quite the same as the House system at Harvard, but it still seems to be pretty good at spotting and encouraging talent to apply for the Goldwaters, Trumans, Marshalls and such.</p>

<p>And yes, they had three winners last fall. One was still in the college (graduated in June, thank goodness...), one a year out attending law school at Yale and one working in DC. All great kids.</p>

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<p>newmassdad: I got that impression from this quote from a Maroon article a few years ago.

[quote]
Due to the intense nature of the competition and the time commitment required, fewer students apply for the British scholarships than for other, less competitive programs.</p>

<p>The College has embarked on an aggressive campaign to encourage students to apply for awards like the U.S. Fulbright Scholarship. In recent years, the U of C has had increasing success with Fulbrights, as well as higher numbers of applicants.</p>

<p>Applications more than doubled from 24 in 2006 to 57 for the current cycle.
The number of students awarded the scholarship has also steadily increased in the past six years; nine students won the scholarship last year.</p>

<p>The key to getting students to apply is demystifying the process, said David Comp, an adviser in the College.</p>

<p>“A lot of students think that they have to have a 3.8 GPA, and they don’t have to. A 3.0 is going to get [the scholarship] over a 3.8 if it’s a good proposal,” Comp said.</p>

<p>In contrast, U of C College advisers recruit applicants to the Rhodes and Marshall scholarships based on their GPAs, as well as on recommendations elicited from faculty members and other advisers.</p>

<p>Advisers will continue to review the process by which the U of C recommends and prepares students, said Susan Art, dean of students in the College.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>idad,</p>

<p>Historically, UofC has not won many Fulbrights - that's what this article was really about.</p>

<p>Most years, Chicago has 20+ students who start working on the British Scholarships and has about 10 complete and be endorsed by the U. Do they want these numbers higher? Don't know, but the batting average is pretty good: .300 this year, roughly!</p>

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<p>My 2 cents on advising at U of C:</p>

<p>My experience with my adviser has been absolutely horrible. I find him to be incompetent, unhelpful, not very genuine and overall just not a good adviser. Many of my friends have had similar experiences and it seems that advising part of undergrad at the College is not what it used to be. Many people seem to be hyped about it and then are very disappointed with who they end up with. It is a bit of a hit or miss.</p>

<p>However, I have had excellent experiences with my study abroad advisers and what I would call faculty mentors - both of which, I think, do an exceptional job in caring for a students development.</p>

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<p>S got a letter from his advisor yesterday. Has been there since January. We'll cross our fingers.</p>

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<p>akx06,</p>

<p>Advising at UofC is what you make of it. I am not surprised some folks bash the advisors. After all, they have heavy loads, and are not there to do your work. They are there to help and support you, providing guidance as you request it. </p>

<p>So, you might want to think about how much time YOU invested in getting to know your advisor? How much advice did you seek? My bet is not very much. </p>

<p>Keep in mind, too, that the college advisors are no substitute for faculty mentors and the departmental folks that provide help regarding specific concentrations/majors. College advisors' primary responsibility is to make sure you graduate on time by meeting core requrements and such. Anything beyond that is secondary and up to you.</p>

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<p>newmassdad, the article was about Rhodes.
Chicago</a> Maroon | Scholarship committees overlook Chicago</p>

<p>As for Fulbright-Hays:</p>

<p>From the U of C website:
[quote]
For 20 consecutive years, University graduate students have won more Fulbright-Hays Doctoral Dissertation Research Abroad fellowships than students at any other U.S. educational institution.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>idad, </p>

<p>The article talked about one no-luck period, late 2006. So what? Harvard had no Rhodes winners in 06 and 02 (awards made November of the year before). </p>

<p>And idad, surely you understand the difference between the Fulbright Scholarship and the Fulbright-Hays? I'll give you a hint: One is sponsored by State and administered by the Institute of International Education. The other is sponsored and run by DOE.</p>

<p>I don't see any purpose in arguing about the content of a Maroon article. You are welcome to think what you want. </p>

<p>Personally, I think Chicago has a fine track record with national level honors and does a fine job in supporting its undergrads. It has been doing so for years. Maybe the problem is that, by definition, these honors are for the top few percent of the College student body, so most students will have no idea what the advising staff does in this regard, including the Maroon staff, who I don't think has had a winner of any top honors in quite a few years. (Go ahead: take the challenge. Prove me wrong. I would love to see the data...)</p>

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<p>In my own case, I would say that I have certainly sought out my adviser and have just had bad experiences. He was unable to answer questions, unable to provide advice on course selection, study abroad opportunities, double-majoring etc - all of which tie into me graduating on time. Also, as a transfer student, I found him particularly unhelpful - as did all the students who had him - in regards to our transfer credit.</p>

<p>As a student, I am just giving an honest account. I think it is something that the administration should work on. I knew seniors last year that loved the adviser they had the first three years, then their adviser was changed/retired, and they had a dismal experience with new ones their 4th year.</p>

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<p>^What you describe is very common at least among my friends.</p>

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<p>It seems like students at most schools aren't happy with the advising system as a whole or the advisors. At least at Chicago, and probably at other schools, advising has a high turnover. I think it's one of those fields that most use as a stepping stone to something else.</p>

<p>However, it's important to point out that Chicago's advisers work full-time as advisers, so (theoretically) they are more in tune with students because it's the only thing they're paid to be doing.</p>

<p>I've had only positive experiences with my advisor, but I'll admit I don't expect much from her other than to graduate me on time. What I know about the university and post-graduation opportunities are things I've researched myself.</p>

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<p>S1 has had both good advisors (current one) and bad (now gone). S1 was told Chicago was not a hand holding institution, but one that rewarded initiative and would provide many opportunities as a result. This has proved to be the case, at least for him. </p>

<p>newmassdad: I was simply trying to clarify where I had read about concerns for supporting students for the scholarships, and since I had written Fulbright-Hays, I thought you were referring to that in your comments, I do know the difference, I regret the misinterpretation. No arguments here. </p>

<p>I have recently been assisting a student applying for a Rhodes form a top Ivy and it is an arduous process indeed. Schools that supply help will definitely benefit in the number of successful applicants. While the university is helpful, in this case, important profs in her major at the school did not want her to apply, nor are they offering much support, they want her to stay and attend grad school there. They maintain that study in England in her major was not as prestigious or as recognized within the field as staying put. I recommended she follow her heart and that if they wanted her now for grad school, they (or someone equally as good) would want her just as badly in a couple of years.</p>