<p>Although this is my first post on CC, I have been on the website for quite some time, and have read through many Dartmouth forums. I love Dartmouth! I think it's an amazing school, just like the rest of the Ivies. My question/concern had not yet been explicitly discussed, so I decided to start a forum for it. It is simply the name of this post: What's happening to Dartmouth?</p>
<p>Across many of these forums, I have seen the typical criticisms, most notably the Greek system and everything that comes with it (hazing, binge-drinking, etc.)
On the other hand, I have seen posts from people who had nothing but great things to say about the school and loved their (or their child's) experience! However, in the news recently, I have seen more and more articles that make Dartmouth seem like it is heading in the wrong direction, such as the typical Greek issues and a significant drop in the number of applicants for the class of 2018. I know that these articles, often over-exaggerated, take little away from how great Dartmouth is as a university, but the bad news seems to keep piling on!</p>
<p>These are my questions:
Is Dartmouth on the decline, as compared to recent years? If so, who/what is causing this? Is there progress in fixing and addressing these issues?</p>
<p>(1) It depends what you mean by “on the decline”: Are applications dropping? Yes. Is the quality of the education falling? Not as far as I know. (2) You answered this one for yourself: " in the news recently, I have seen more and more articles that make Dartmouth seem like it is heading in the wrong direction." “Seem” is not reality. News articles (believe it or not) are not always factual or comprehensive or right, but Dartmouth has had more than its share of bad press lately. (3) Maybe people should give Phil a chance to right the ship. </p>
<p>A few more questions (and my answers). Is there a way of keeping immature idiots from posting crap at B@B? No. Should one idiot’s immature post affect anyone’s view of Dartmouth as an institution? No. Should Lohse’s rants be allowed to define the college? No. Is the Greek system responsible for binge drinking? No (although it’s certainly a contributing factor). Is the Greek system responsible for hazing? No – and here is an area where I think Dartmouth has shown leadership. </p>
<p>Look at all the other hazing stories that have been in the papers over the last year or so. You have athletic teams, marching bands, all sort of organizations. Is it possible for Dartmouth (or any other institution) to prevent that? Nope. But, the college has taken a very strong stand and is doing what it can by requiring pre-approval of EVERY activity that might be viewed as or potentially lead to hazing. I personally think it may have gone too far. You can’t ask/make newbies go out for a pajama pancake breakfast? But, probably better to err at this point on the side of safety. See … that stuff doesn’t make for a neat headline. </p>
<p>AboutTheSame, I really like your comment and wholeheartedly agree with you. But I guess my real question stems off of what cba just mentioned. What do you think specifically caused such a significant drop in applicants? I understand that you will find many if not all of the same problems detailed above at any ivy, but why (if such problems are even the reason) are they affecting Dartmouth the most? Do I assume that this bad press (which we agree to be overblown) has influenced potential applicants so much as to not apply at all? That the school is no different than it was when it had a record number of applicants (2 years ago, I believe?) and it is just people putting too much faith into the media? That would be my guess, but I’m curious as to if there are any other factors playing into this.</p>
<p>One other factor could be Dartmouth’s decision not to give credit for AP’s. I have no idea if this is the case, but it could be a factor. I agree with ATS. The media has gone crazy on some things. A small number of Dartmouth students are trying to impact change, and that’s not a bad thing. What irks me is there is no publicity on what Dartmouth does great. It is ranked #1 for undergraduate teaching for a reason. So much negative publicity on frats, but the positive is all parties are open and everyone is welcome. I don’t know many schools like that. There are so many complaints about male social spaces. That is the case at all schools with Greek systems. My D is in a sorority, and she would not want parties in her living environment. I am sure Dartmouth will be looking at this drop though.</p>
<p>Pomona = “Ivy” of the West - really??? Never even heard of it before I visited cc, but then I live on the east coast with the real ivies. Now Stanford is know to be on par with (if not better than) the ivies.</p>
<p>My son recently responded to a survey. It asked where he applied, what was important to him about those schools, and then quickly shifted gears to asking why not Dartmouth, what’s your view of Dartmouth, etc. short answer: he might have applied to Dartmouth if it were EA rather than ED. Had he not gotten in elsewhere early, he might have applied and, if accepted, joined his best friend at Dartmouth. </p>
<p>I live on the West Coast, and, of course, Stanford is well known everywhere. Pomona is one of the “Claremont” schools (Pomona established 1887) by a group who wanted it to create colleges on the West Coast like the best East Coast schools. Harvey Mudd (science) is also one of the schools, as well as Claremont McKenna and Scripps, all about 45 minutes of Los Angeles. Pomona’s admission rate is about 12%. I guess we just don’t know each other’s schools besides some of the “giants.” I had never heard of most East Coast schools until this year, when my S is senior. We have visited 19 schools, 9 in Calif and 10 out of state.</p>
<p>I didn’t say it was a ‘bad’ school, it just not as well known as the Ivies, Stanford, & MIT. There are plenty of schools with 12% acceptance rate that still don’t have the name recognition of an ivy (Cooper Union comes to mind).</p>
<p>PTDC18: I have no idea what caused the drop. I would be very interested in seeing whether the applicant pool this year varied from prior years in terms of gender or region. I can see helicopter parents saying – No way, you are not going to that school, so don’t bother applying – but that can’t account for the drop. I think maybe the administration’s ostrich approach didn’t work and the school needs to be more active in presenting the positive. If I had any great ideas, rest assured, my email would already have gone to Phil’s in box. </p>
<p>Dartmouth’s “Greek system” is a repellent anachronism. In an age of economic and social globalization, and easy access to information via the Internet, prospective applicants are voting with their feet. Who wants to go to a college where for a large plurality of one’s classmates the idea of “fun” is to hive off into little packs and drink until you vomit? For $60,000/year, it just doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>DartmouthAlum, I can appreciate your argument and, based off of your username, you may be speaking from experience. But I think that any prospective applicant who believes the grossly over-exaggerated articles on Dartmouth frat life is stupid to base their decision to apply solely on that aspect. Not only are they buying into the idea that this is the case for every fraternity/sorority (which I can probably assume it’s not), but also they are letting the fear tactics the media generates consume their rationale and cause them to completely disregard the many other aspects that seat Dartmouth as one of the best colleges in the nation. I believe the bad press did cause Dartmouth to lose a number of very bright students, but it also weeded out an ever larger number of students who are too concerned with rankings and prestige that they hardly look into the value of education or what their parents will be paying for, and that is a good thing in my opinion.</p>