<p>Attending an honors college is like buying the best house in a bad neighborhood. Your education will be devalued by the overall quality of the university. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life explaining “I graduated from Podunk BUT it was their Honors College”. “Oh. Uh-huh. I see. Great.”</p>
<p>If you have to attend a public university because of finances, then the honors college is the way to go. But, you could take out some low-interest loans and attend a school commensurate with your abilities. You’d experience and absorb the lessons from the hidden curriculum that would be imparted by the culture of an elite institution. </p>
<p>Yes, the research findings about the economic advantages of elite colleges are confusing and contradictory. I want to point out that the above NY Times article cites research based almost entirely on private schools. The only public universities were Penn State and U Michigan.</p>
<p>This thread is about “What’s so great about an honors college?” and the answer is “nothing”. My argument is that there are, in fact, disadvantages to attending an honors college with the possible exception of the honors colleges at the most selective public universities like Michigan, Berkeley, and Virginia. It is the overall selectivity that is most highly correlated with educational benefits. My opinion is based more on logic and reason and on my personal experience with a highly selective private university, an average private university, and an average public university. Honors colleges do not at all feel like a significantly different experience. </p>
<p>Here are some advantages of attending better schools:
(1) bright, motivated, talented, mature fellow students
(2) bright, motivated, talented, faculty who are both professionally and personally mature and cutting-edge, involved professionally in their field.
(3) Faculty who communicate well in the classroom and inspire with their enthusiasm for teaching.
(4) Faculty who design courses in an educationally sound way, and evaluate students objectively based on performance.
(5) Faculty who are accessible and friendly, understanding and kind, but demanding.
(6) Up-to-date resources that are readily available.
(7) A great library
(8) Lots of excellent visiting scholars and speakers
(9) A thriving and exciting intellectual climate (not dominated by sports or alcohol)
(10) A tradition and history of excellence that instills pride and confidence, not a constant struggle against inferiority
(11) mutual interest and respect between faculty and students
(12) opportunities for research and academic or professional experiences outside the classroom
(13) originality and sophistication of ideas that are expressed and or discussed
(14) entertainment that is not malicious or self destructive
(15) social issues awareness
(16) excellent academic advising (most schools fall short here)
(17) professional contacts of faculty
(18) success in placing graduates in jobs, grad schools, professional schools
(19) intangible culture, climate, atmosphere of excellence</p>
<p>I’d like talented students to reach their full potential. Many talented students from moderate income families are not “college savvy”. I don’t want them to be duped by an honors college marketing ploy. If you can get into a great college, go for it. Don’t sell yourself short. But, if you really can’t afford it, then the honors college is your best option. But, private colleges and universities offer lots of aid to make themselves affordable.</p>
<p>^ All of those “advantages of attending better schools” can be said of attending an honors college at a university. If you have actual data which shows that more selective schools are differentiated in these areas please post it. I’d love to see what info is out there.</p>
<p>I don’t think the data is available. To me, it seems like common sense. Say you are a basketball player who was drafted by the NBA. You were also offered a job in the Italian League but with the “honors team” that consists of players good enough to be in the NBA. Which would you choose? Which experience would benefit you more?</p>
<p>I don’t think you need a lot of data. This question can be answered by reason and logic.</p>
<p>It would be nice to have data but educational research methods are pretty crude and the issues are extremely complex. Many of the benefits of attending a university with uniform excellence are difficult to quantify.</p>
<p>I am sure there is an attitude adjustment that occurs to justify whatever choice you make. Students who attended an honors college will unconsciously find ways to justify their choice and students who attend more selective schools will find ways to justify their choice.
Prospective freshmen should really do some soul searching to be sure THEY are comfortable with their choice. Mom and Dad probably want to save money. Money aside, where do you want to go? Selective schools make themselves affordable.
I think a prestigious college is validation of your ability and hard work. I wouldn’t underestimate the effect it may have on confidence and self-esteem.</p>
<p>Honors colleges – questions off the top of my head
Two basic questions:
How different is the honors college from the rest of the university?
How similar is the honors college to other universities with overall selectivity similar to the honors college?</p>
<p>Specifically:
Do the faculty teach honors courses differently?
Are there different (better) faculty for honors courses?
Are courses taught at a higher level?
Do honors courses use more challenging textbooks?
Do honors courses cover more material?
Is the level of discussion and questioning higher in honors courses?
How different from the overall university is the climate and culture in the honors college?
Is the mentoring more intense than in the overall university?
Do honors students interact more with faculty?
Are there more opportunities to engage in research and scholarship?
How much smaller are classes?
How many courses are exclusively honors?
Is there a higher level of creativity and productivity among honors students?
How comparable is the rate of admission to medical, law, business, and graduate schools (controlling for the selectivity of the schools)?
Would you feel more pride if you had attended a school with a more prestigious name?
Is the honors college your first choice (ignoring money factors)?
Are you going to be in honors housing?
How much will you be associating exclusively with other honors students?</p>
<p>What are some other questions that would be nice to answer (if there were data)?</p>
<p>I just stumbled on this thread while doing a Google search, and would like to make some comments, particularly concerning the McDonnell-Barksdale Honors College at Ole Miss. I don’t have kids there, but I am from Oxford.</p>
<p>First, if you have the option of attending Harvard, Yale, or even UVA absolutely free, I suggest you do so. It might be a better experience than a public university honors college (and yes, I’m aware UVA is public, but it’s pretty darn elite). Be aware that the Ole Miss honors college, and many others as well, are very aggressive in handing out merit aid, so I do mean that you can attend a good honors college for free.</p>
<p>Oh, and one thing about the low admission standards at Ole Miss and other Southern schools. The federal courts will not allow these schools to simply raise their admission standards, as it will reduce the number of black students. So that’s why they now have the honors colleges and other specialized programs to appeal to the best students.</p>
<p>To answer some of your questions to the best of my ability.</p>
<p>
The Honors College is part of the university. Honors students have the option to be around more “ordinary” students a good deal, or they can remain somewhat isolated. At Ole Miss there is an honors dorm. The Honors College is headquartered in an old sorority house, which provides a great place for students to study or socialize, and the location of the Honors College is right next to the Grove and near the student union. A great location. I would say from everything I’ve observed the Honors College experience is quite different from that of the regular student, but to some extent it depends on how much students want to isolate themselves.</p>
<p>
I really can’t answer this. Although the Ole Miss Honors College has selectivity similar to that of UVA, the two schools would provide very different experiences. Personally, if the cost were the same I’d look hard at UVA over most of the honors colleges.</p>
<p>
I believe the answer to this is yes. Some courses are only open to honors students.
Again, yes. Sometimes there are visiting professors, authors, or lecturers who have special classes for honors students. One of the best professors I ever had was a guy named Jere Hoar. He retired about 10 or 15 years ago, but until recently was teaching one class open to honors students only. There are a bunch of classes like this. Some classes are only open to honors students, often those doing newsworthy projects.
I’m sure they are if they are an honors course.
I don’t know about textbooks, but I am sure they require more reading.
Almost certainly. Either that or more in depth.
Head and shoulders.
If a students is in one of these honors colleges there is going to be a far more serious attitude towards school.
Most honors college students are treated as minor royalty. They get fist selection of classes, go to the head of the waitlist for classes, and have staff members whose job it is to serve them and them alone.
Yes, the classes tend to be small, so they interact a lot. Some of the classes involve projects that require a tremendous amount of faculty-student interaction.
Yes
My son is currently taking a non-honors class, lower level, through dual enrollment. There are 90 students in the class. My guess is that if it were an honors class there would be 12 to 20, sometimes as few as six or eight.
I don’t know the answer to this. Most honors students will take 40-50 percent of their classes as honors classes.
Of course there is. At Ole Miss these students do an honors thesis. The journalism school has some classes for honors students only, and these students have done special projects that have been nationally recognized. For example, UM journalism students have earned the Robert F. Kennedy journalism award twice in the past few years, the most recent based on work done in Belize. I think the classes that produced this work were honors classes.
I would think they are comparable. Most people who attend these schools are in roughly the 92-99th percentile, about the same as the standards for the honors colleges.
I would, so long as I didn’t have to pay more for it. But there is a certain amount of pride involved in getting a free ride to a top honors college such as Ole Miss or Alabama have.
I doubt it. If money were no object I’d likely encourage my children to attend an expensive elite college such as Harvard or Yale. Money is an object.
At most schools most or all honors students will be in honors housing their first year. After that some will go to Greek housing or apartments.
This is a personal choice. I suspect the honors students spend a good bit of time with each other. Many will want to go Greek and will spend a good bit of time with those friends.</p>
<p>One final note. A school like Ole Miss is going to have some students who are marginal and some classes that are the same. On the other hand, the Ole Miss Accounting School has repeatedly been named one of the very best in the nation, as in top five or 10, both graduate and undergraduate. If I wanted to have a career in accounting, I would pay extra to go to Ole Miss. There are really good programs at lots of schools. It just depends on what you are looking for.</p>
<p>I’m glad this discussion is taking place because we have this choice to make this year for our oldest daughter and we’re don’t have a clue. She has a shot at two Honor’s programs at not very high ranked schools, George Mason or Ohio University, or can attend our flagship University of Minnesota as a normal student. Our flagship is only 45 minuets from home but very large vs going across the country for the Honor’s program. This discussion has given us a lot to think about and I think really tilts the scales towards the University of Minnesota.</p>
<p>newfaith, I would urge you to take a good luck at the honors colleges, both for good and bad. Up into about 15 years ago the Ole Miss program was really nothing special at all. Then Jim Barksdale (netscape guy) and some other folks poured a pile of money into it. In my opinion it is very good. I think the Alabama program is quite good.</p>
<p>A few honors colleges are fairly generous with financial aid. That should always be a consideration.</p>